5 YEAR OLD GIRL OUT OF CONTROL

[Becky20]

When my daughter was 4 she was referred to a child psychologist because I felt she had adhd.
Her 10 year old brother has a.d.h.d. and her 7 year old brother has a.d.d.
My father has bipolar, my grandfather was diagnosed as having split personality, my aunt suffered from  severe depression, and so to do I suffer with depression awaiting further assessment because
I felt I have bi polar because I have major up's and downs, with previouse self harming. They said my
daughter may grow out of it and left it at that, 1 year later I have had her re referred because
she is becoming worse on a daily basis, I have recorded footage of her screaming in the streets,
screaming in our house, kicking, scratching, she tried to strangle me, she has a beautiful side,
where she is so innocent and I am convinced she is not able to control these severe outbursts
she screams because her socks arnt right, every day, bobbles underneath or where
there's toe stitching, it can take forever to get her shoes on, she is sweet at school, but in every other situation she goes mad, she screams for hours at levels beyond comprehension, she screamed for hours because I put her blanket wrong, She is upsetting everyone, and her moods are becoming more and more severe, and aggressive I have been given phenergan to calm her down (doesnt help at all) and am due to see psychologist on the 19th of feb, but that date seems so distant, can you offer me any advice.  

[frustratedgmom]

I am clueless, but am having alot of the same problems with my 3 year old boy. His father is bipolar, add, and adhd....so please let me know what you figure out! ***@****!

[Ortarx]

How are the other children around her and what is her interaction with them?  Is she only violent when someone does something she sees wrong or when she herself does it?

[Becky20]

The other children hate her screaming she leaves the youngest one in tears and the oldest run's off saying he may as well be dead, she is violent over everything it can be as simple as me offering to help her,
or going ahead and helping her, if she is on the bad side she flips over anything and everything, she blames everyone else aswell, like if she hurts herself while attacking one of us, then it is our fault

[Becky20]

A.d.h.d. and bi polar have a history of being heredetary, I tried to get my daughter diagnosed at 4 and at such a young age they often like to leave the child and see if
they will grow out of it, I have had a difficult time getting to this stage, she is due to be seen soon and I will post on here the outcome, so watch this space. and good luck.

[chigirl29]

It doesn't mean your child has it.  You should try regular and consistent discipline instead of filming your child wailing in the streets.

If you do research, a lot of mental illnesses have onsets after or during puberty.

I hope your child doesn't have adhd and is not bipolar.

[chigirl29]

BTW, phenergan can have auditory and visual hallucination effects in some people. I wouldn't give that to my children, and they are near in age.

[Becky20]

In this situation dicipline does not work, the only thing I can do is comfort my child, she does not have control over what is happening to her, and I am getting the assessment to help my child, so that
so called authoritive figures dont bring her down so far that her world falls apart, you have to live with it to understand, this is not something that appears during the teenage years this is something that must have
been present in childhood to hold a diagnosis, my little girl does not wail in the streets, my little girl screams  to the untmost capacity of her lungs, she is violent, and aggressive and I know for a fact her emotions are beyond her control, I already know as a mother of 2 children already diagnosed with a.d.h.d., that disipline is not what is needed in this case, but LOVE AND PROTECTION against ridicule from the "so called normal population" I am filming her to make sure she doesnt just get tossed on some pile of papers but to get her the help she desperately needs so that children, teachers and adults dont contribute to her already unstable emotions, I give her phenergan when she is completely uncontrollable, I have 2 other children that have to live with her aswell. And their emotional stability is just as improtant.

[chigirl29]

I don't claim to be from the normal pop., and I don't treat my children like they are going to get everything my family members have contracted.  I let her grow and mature--and I provide stable discipline--and I really don't think that you are doing that.  Four years of age is pretty hard to diagnose with anything like that, and I state that based upon research and education.

[Tybear]

I am very sorry you are having a hard time dealing with your daughter. You sound like a very loving and concerned mother and I hope you are able to get to the root of what may be causing her behaviour. I'm not going to pass judgement on you or pretend like I'm qualified to tell you how to handle this...you are trying your best. Don't give up...
Good luck...

[RStern]

Bravo!!  First and foremost - our kids do need love and protection!  So many people overlook that - and it is the very basis / foundation of making a difference in a child's life.  

But you already know that!  I just had to say it out loud for others.

As for the here and now - where does one start?  You certainly have a full plate, and you certainly know your stuff.  You are well-versed in ADHD and bipolar.

Thoughts I have:

What does work with your daughter?
What does she respond to?

History, and family history aside - what else might be contributing to her behaviors?  Has anything happened in her life, your life, the family's life that could have spun her into acting this way?

But then again - if not much has changed over the course of 1 year - I might think a little deeper.

This is a tough one - and February 19th can certainly feel like a long way from now.

So - without asking every question under the sun - my advice would be this:

What can you do between now and the 19th that will make a difference?  What might make it a little easier to get through each day (for you, for her, or the family?)

So many thoughts on this - I do hope you will keep us posted.

Rory

[Becky20]

First off I would like to say thank you to everyone for taking the time to communicate, we can all learn a little from each other.
1 point is my daughter is 5 now not 4 she is beyond the naughty 2's naughty 3's naughty 4's. her school has not had much trouble with her yet, but her teacher has noticed certain behaviour, such as blameing others for her mistakes, restlessness, excessive talking, intruding on others, argueing with adults, losing her temper, easily annoyed by others, angry and resentful, spiteful and vindictive, she has marked all
of these off on an adhd assessment paper, my daughter does not only lose control at home, it's in the street's, the shop's, anywhere really.

[Becky20]

What on earth are you talking about girl, when you state something like this  "I don't treat my children like they are going to get everything my family members have contracted"

A.d.h.d. and Bi polar are not contagious dah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they can be heredetary though and because of the history in my family it is highly likely that my daughter has a similar condition...............................................

[Becky20]

Thank you for you'r reply sometimes a listening ear can offer a lot of hope, so
thank you for the "don't give up" I never will.

[Becky20]

Again thank you for a more positive reply, nothing has happened to have made her change, everything is exactly the same, same school, same house, same people,
actually the last few days have been great with my daughter because she has brought us love and laughter, this is the side of her that we long for and  seldom see, and we are cherishing her good nature at the moment, actually I'm extremely glad I did film her
because the difference is astonishing, if you met her now you would not believe the footage I have of her is the same child, but alas, the volcano is still active and could erupt without the slightest indication that there is a change going on. I give her love and protection whether she is "good" or "bad" because she is in turmoil with crazy emotions that she has no control over, I know my little girl with shine again once the storms have calmed.

[SL345]

One area that you might want to explore (if you haven't already) is sensory integration sensitivity. There are a lot of relatively non-invasive strategies that seem odd, but help soothe many reactive children (e.g., sensitivity to certain fabrics, to tags in shirts, stitching in the bottom of socks, etc.). Some kids respond to brushing protocols, joint compressions, applied pressure and other non-traditional strategies. There is no clear scientific support for this approach, but if it helps your kid that's all that matters in the end.  Also, many children who qualify for a diagnosis of ADHD may also show signs and symptoms of other co-occurring conditions, such as oppositional-defiant traits and mood dysregulation. At this age, we are better able to behaviorally describe what we see than we are able to understand underlying neurobiological processes that may be causative. You are to be commended for trying to understand this in all its complexity. I agree that recording the behavior for professionals to be able to view and trying to weigh risk factors for genetic loading are positive and important approaches. Good luck!

[Becky20]

Thank you for you'r insight as I already believe in trying to calm her instead of scolding her some of the strategies you have offered could well be used in the times of her outrage, it is just hard to get close to her when you want to comfort and all she does is scratch and kick and punch. Tonight she tried to strangle her 7 year old brother, she went totally wild again, at least the 19th is slowly creeping closer, like you say too there may be co-morbidities alongside a.d.h.d. that is why I have been so determined to film her, the change in her is so totally drastic, from loving and sweet and kind and considerate to hateing and wanting to kill people, I'm a little devastated right now, but I will continue to reply and thank you for all the comments.

[SL345]

Sorry to hear of your most recent upset. There's generally little that one can do when a child, or any person, has lost control. The trick, if you will, is catching them before it gets to that point. Certainly easier said than done. With sensory integration, a "sensory diet" is recommended, which means using the interventions on a daily basis when the child is calm and in control. Like stress management, it rarely works when someone is highly agitated if they haven't been using it daily for weeks at a time beforehand. Good luck. Please let us know what you find out on the 19th

[raebc]

Hi,

I don't have any experience with your situation, but wanted to wish you the best in finding help for your daughter. I think filming her behavior is a brilliant idea, so that doctors and other diagnosticians can see for themselves the magnitude of her behavior.  A close friend was having sleep issues with her toddler and knew in her heart it was something more than a testy toddler. After getting nowhere with his pediatrician, she filmed him at night during one of his sleep episodes. Once the doctor viewed the tape, he finally took her seriously after months and months of telling everyone that would listen that something was seriously wrong. She had been told that she needed to be more firm and more disciplined and not give in into his numerous wakings - after viewing the tape though, he was prescribed a sleep study and was found to have severe sleep apnea - waking 40-60 times per hour. He was also whiny, clingy and cranky....another area where doctors told her to be consistent and firm. Guess what? When you wake up 40-60 times per hour, it puts you in a very foul mood! He is now getting the help he needs and is a different child.

Long story short - keep doing what you're doing and you will find an answer. A mother knows. Best of luck. (hugs)

[Joan959]

My just turned 5 year old daughter is out of control as well.  I am at a loss as to what to do. She has mood swings all day. Good moods last maybe an hour and then she's crabby, mean, swears. She constantly torments the dogs, her 8 year old brother and even his friends. I have to constantly watch her with the dogs and even her own friends. She'll be playing nice one minute and then all of a sudden she'll hit or push or say something mean.  It's like she's never happy.  I don't take her to play groups anymore but she does go to preschool twice per week.  She's starting to show this behavior at school so the teachers say they have to keep a close eye on her too.  She's very whiney with me and Dad and seems to make life miserable for us all. We've taken her to a pediatrician who says she's probably Oppositional Defiant Disorder but she's too young to be diagnosed with a mood disorder such as Bipolar. Does this sound familiar to you with your own daughter?

[Becky20]

Thanks  for the information I will do some revision in the methods you suggest, actually after the psychiatrist would not bring my appointment closer when I have felt so desperate with her, I contacted the assistant general manager  and she has managed to bring my appointment forward to this FRIDAY, so hopefully I can post some information on the matter then.

[Becky20]

Thank you for the information you have supplied although it is not about the same thing IT IS ABOUT a mothers belief that something is not right, and her persistance to find the answer, well I applaud you'r friend for filming and having evidence, evidence like that cannot be disputed. thank you for you'r contribution.

[Becky20]

I think that if you'r daughter is causing disruption in more than one place, such as school and home you have a right to get you'r daughter  referred to a child psychiatrist, how is you'r daughters attention, why would bi polar be suspected, have you history of bi polar in the family, Usually if the school is having problems they can have the educational psychologist assess the child and that can also help in a diagnosis towards a.d.h.d.  

[Joan959]

We do have mental illnesses in our family. The pediatrician said she doesn't have add or adhd.  The educational psychologist in school doesn't assess until she's in kindergarten which will be in September.  We have a normal family life, have lived in the same house for 3 years.  This behaviour seems to have started when she was about 2.  We've had her allergy tested and nothing came up except pollen, ragweed.  We've tried a Naturopath and followed a strict diet which I must admit did seem to help in her behaviour after a few months. BUT my Dr.'s say this isn't possible and it's so hard to feed us without wheat, eggs, dairy, sugar. So now we're just eating regularly again.

[Becky20]

It seems like you have travelled a long road, and are probably at the same stage as I am with my daughter,
I am not sure if my daughter is a.d.h.d. or bipolar, she definately has 2 sides to her and the difference is dramatic, is all I can say is persevere and record her behaviour as evidence, I cant say untill I have my daughter diagnosed wether they will diagnose bi polar, but I have pushed my appointment forward to this friday, so I will post on here what the outcome is.