Children with new parent relationships

[misssurrey]

I left my ex husband in Feb 2011, moving my two children (then 2.5 & 4.5) in with my parents. They visited their father most weekends. In March 2011, their father started dating, all whilst still harassing me - either Telling me how much we needed to be together, or how much it was all my fault. I filed for divorce on emotional abuse grounds - to myself and son (the youngest).

The first gf met the children, and they got to know her and were excited about the upcoming baby (which wasn't his). They then split in December, and he immediately started dating again. They met her just weeks afterwards. Towarss the end of 2012, he started dating another girl. In April 2012, my daughter told me that this one was going to be their step-mummy. They split up the following weekend, got back together, and officially split up 3 weeks after the whole "step-mummy" quote.

Just two weeks after this, they met my bf, the first one I ever introduced to them, knowing that this was a relationship that would last. I had told them about him, they'd seen photos, and knew he would be a part of their lives forever.

Their behaviour when we first moved in with my parents was trying. I put it down to their ages and the divorce proceedings - taking 14 months to go through. My daughter got bullied in y1, my son bullied in nursery. They would fight to tidy up, try to delay bedtime routines, and would refuse dinner. My son would consistently start his food, then declare he needed the bathroom. The children shared a bedroom (my parents gave up their bedroom, for a smaller room and I had my dad's office).

In May 2013, my son tied a belt around his neck until he went blue. He did regret this, but still continued to say he wanted to kill himself. He was referred to the Under 5s Unit at the local hospital by his head teacher. He was seen by a psychologist and a specialised nursery nurse, I attended the Incredible Years course.

In December 2013, we moved in with my bf. The children wanted this, and actively asked their father to give us the permission to move. He gave this, quite reluctantly, on the condition that the children fly back to see him every 3 weeks - we live over 300 miles away.  They have to take a half day at school, to make sure we catch the plane, and they get to their fathers around 7pm on the Friday then get picked up at Sunday lunchtime. Their father lives with a new gf (the 4th) who has a 7 yo son, in a two bed house - the boys share a 3/4 bed, my daughter sleeps on a bed in the same room (which is usually slept on by the gf's father).

Before we actually moved, we visited my bf often. It was a one bedroom flat, with us sleeping in the lounge and the children sharing a king sized bed. We now live in a 3 bed Georgian house, with small garden, 5 minutes walk from a beach and 10 minutes walk from a park.

Their behaviour, at home, is now at breaking point. They refuse to tidy up their rooms (daughter every time, son sometimes), refuse to put clothes away (daughter every time, son only puts away underwear & nightwear as can't reach wardrobe). They grumble (most of the time) when asked to set table or clear away the table - something they did every night at my parents. They leave food waste (fruit rinds) and empty packets on the floor. They won't help clean out their guinea pigs. They break/bite their toys. They break the gf's possessions - eg. work mobile, £75 badminton racquet. They don't tidy up spilt milk/cereal from breakfast. They fight getting up in the mornings for school. They won't ask for snacks at the weekend, and just take it and eat ridiculous quantities in hiding. They dump their shoes/coats without putting them away. They are also back chatting (mainly the son) and lying (mainly the daughter), plus consistent blaming of the sibling - usually truthfully by the son. All things that was the opposite before moving.

We both feel that we are constantly telling them off, rather than doing fun things with them like we did last year and when first moved. We try punishing them, by restricting the TV time and taking their toys away - they both currently have no toys. I have even thrown one toy each into the bin, which they watched me do, and then the bin men came 6.30 the next morning.

I know that 7 yo's are as bad as the terrible twos, but this just seems to be out of hand. But then my sons behaviour isn't really helping matters. Especially as they want a baby brother or sister, and we want to try to give them one.

Does anyone have any advise on ways to deal with the behaviour that actually works?

[Sandman2]

   Ok, the others have dealt with the mental health concerns.  Lets talk about behavior.  
   The first thing is always to try and decide if there are any triggers that are causing the behavior so the trigger can be deal with before the behaviour starts.
   Are the behaviors happening at school too?  If so, that is an indication of a more serious problem.  If the behaviors are mainly happening at home - that actually is good news because it indicates that it should be able to be handled (more on that in just a second).
   Sleep patterns are also really important.  If a child is not getting enough sleep (for whatever reason), it really messes up there day, their attitude, and everybodys day.
   So dealing with their behavior.
        If they are not having problems at school it is probably because the school has very clear, age appropriate rules, on what is expected - and immediate consequences.   Essentially, that is what you do.
      Make sure that the kids know exactly what you want them to do.  And that what you want them to do is age appropriate.  Give them two chances to correct the problem, and then an immediate consequence if they do not.
The book, "1-2-3 Magic"  uses this system.  You can get it here -
         http://www.amazon.com/1-2-3-Magic-Effective-Discipline-Children/dp/0963386190#
         If you read the reviews for the book, you will see that many parents posted with the same problems you have and the book was very helpful to them.
        In terms of consequences.  Essentially, the rules for behavior modification are that there must be immediate, short, consistent consequences.   Do not expect overnight miracles.  It has taken them awhile to get to this point and it will take a while to relearn control.  But they will.  Experts say it takes about 3 weeks to change a learned behavior for a new one.  It goes much faster if the kids are just challenging you.
       This is one reason I like time outs.  The rule is one min. for each year of age.  The problem with taking away toys or tv time is - what do you do next?  What do you do when there is nothing left to take away?  Give the toys and tv back- and then take them away from the toys, etc. for a short period of time.   This method is well stated in the book,  "SOS for Parents" and is also well worth buying.  It can be found here - http://www.amazon.com/SOS-Help-Parents-Third-Edition/dp/0935111212
        I would also consider a chart with stickers for certain age appropriate chores.   Give rewards for completing the chores.  But here again, the rewards at this age should be fairly immediate.  And then a bigger reward at the end of the week.   Frankly, I am not a huge fan of awards, but the idea of a chart so that they know what you expect might be helpful.
      Finally,  there are books aimed at the 4 to 7 year old crowd that are meant to be read aloud to them and then practiced.  You might try "Hands are not for hitting" found here - http://www.amazon.com/Hands-Hitting-Ages-Best-Behavior/dp/1575420775   and further down the page you will see "know and follow rules" and many other good books.
       I hope this helps.

[nursegirl6572]

It's unfortunate that you're getting so defensive over the very well intentioned advice offered here.  You have to try to remember that the replies aren't personal, no one here knows you, and people are only commenting and offering suggestions based on the info YOU yourself provided.

The info you shared is very alarming.  Whether you want to hear it or not, these kids have lived through a lot of chaos since the divorce, and have not really ever been able to "settle in" to a normal, consistent routine, so it's not surprising to see that they would exhibit behavioral problems as a result.  Children require and thrive on routines, stability and consistency.

They've really not had any of that.  First, of course the initial split with you and their Dad was traumatic and a BIG life change at such an early age.  THEN you describe your ex's ridiculous, irresponsible behavior of introducing them to his GF du jour, and what's even WORSE is that on top of just introducing these girls to your kids, he led the kids to believe that these women were going to be their step mom!  That's SO terrible.  It seems you also feel that what he did was inappropriate, so why weren't there more limits set with you two co-parenting?  It sounds like you had to jump through hoops (again, at the detriment of your children) to get your ex to be on board with you moving in with your new BF, yet, he's allowed to have a new "mommy" with the kids every few weeks.  That's just not acceptable for those kids IMO.

The kids and you stayed with your parents for a while, which honestly, sounds like the ONLY time they had some consistency and stability (and that showed in their actions), and while I understand that you carefully transitioned them into moving in with your new BF, it was still yet another HUGE chance in their lives that they had to adjust to, and quite honestly, you relented to such a ridiculous agreement with your ex in order to make that happen.  

Even if they absolutely LOVE your new BF and were excited about it, it still is something they as young children have to adjust to, not to mention they idea of what something will be like is VERY different from the reality for children.  To add insult to injury, your new living arrangement comes with a ridiculous and unreasonable compromise to ship the kids back and forth on a plane every 3 weeks, even missing some school to do so.  Do you understand where people here are coming from?  These kids have been pulled in so many directions, both physically and emotionally, that it's really not surprising that you're seeing these issues with them.  

Then, you yourself also said that all you and your BF do is "tell them off", punish them, throw away their toys, etc.  Children need to have consequences, sure, but what I think you may be missing is WHY they're behaving like they are and the fact that punishing them and yelling at them isn't going to solve anything.  You're only looking at the behavior, rather than the underlying reason for the behavior.  They need some TLC, some time to adjust to their current environment and living situations.  You and your ex need to co-parent and come up with REASONABLE plans that don't involve chaos for these kids, ESPECIALLY in order to get to move in with a new partner (and that's directed at both of you).  

I have no doubt that you love your children, and that you're worried about them, otherwise, like you said, you wouldn't have posted here.  Parenting isn't always easy, and we don't always make the right choices.  It would be great if you could put aside the defensiveness and really try to process what people are telling you here.  The facts, as I see them is that you have two kids who literally don't know if they're coming or going, they need stability and consistency from BOTH parents.  Until that happens, you're not going to resolve these behavioral issues I don't think,.

As for your son, it's great that you're working with a mental health professional, but PLEASE don't allow a practitioner to minimize what happened to him, or talk you into thinking it wasn't a big deal, or that he's out of the woods.  What happened with him, at SUCH a young age is VERY VERY alarming, and it needs to be handled very aggressively.  A child at that young age doesn't even yet understand the permanency of death, which makes what he did all the more disturbing and dangerous.  It never hurts to get a second (or third even) opinion, and I would recommend you doing so.

I wish you nothing but the best, and hopefully, you'll accept my advice as it was intended, to be honest and helpful.

[specialmom]

I so agree with those that said you have a child in crisis.  A young child that threatens/tries suicide is a very serious thing and that is your utmost priority.  I would consider that the family arrangement isn't working and these kids are showing it.  

I just want to really emphasize that the mental health of your child is your number one concern.  good luck

[Chima7]

It's kind of an interesting way of showing how differently people interpret other people's writing. People who read your story will tend to focus on different parts of the story, because everyone  comes from completely different backgrounds. I know that doesn't answer your question, but it's the reason why people may not tell you what you want to hear. Because when they read what you wrote, they focus on different pieces of the story and they extrapolate different perspectives than what you may have considered, which is what makes these types of message boards so awesome.

But I digress. My suggestion is that you call a family meeting and talk through this with them around the kitchen table. Everyone gets to speak their mind without judgement. Have one of your wooden mixing spoons on hand to give the person who is talking as an item to designate who gets the floor in turn. Those kids are old enough to be able to articulate their thoughts but the key to this is that you and the bf need to listen and be open minded to their feelings and ideas. Don't judge them or interrupt them while they are speaking. And never make them feel bad or ashamed for their feelings, because feelings are as individual as can be, and no one has the right to invalidate another person's feelings. Find out what is going on and work as a family to come up with solutions. Communication is literally the most important foundational rock of any and all successful interactions with anyone. Use your words, as they say. Maybe the kids just need to feel like they have a voice and the family meeting around the kitchen table will give them the opportunity to do that.

[misssurrey]

Until American TV took over the British airwaves, I had no idea what therapy was, let alone that, apparently, everyone has been/will go through it. Kind of makes me want to laugh, as you are making out that the National Health Service Psychologist and Specialised Nursery Nurse, we're not appropriate forms of healing for my son. Apparently, they were unqualified to assess him, and issue a plan for his mental health.

Just because I did not write down his diagnosis, does not mean that he didn't get one. Which was "he has NO suicidal tendencies, due to the remorse shown afterwards (immediately and later on); he is NOT at risk & does not need to be added to any at-risk register or admitted as an at-risk patient;  he has trouble expressing himself through his emotions, especially to females; the tying of the belt around the neck was how he expressed himself for attention"

Thank you for not asking, and assuming that I came on a Child Behaviour forum to ask about child suicide.

I came on here to ask for workable advice in regards to the best way to improve my DAUGHTER'S behaviour, although my son's has changed too.

It doesn't frustrate me that my son can't reach his wardrobe. How would that make him feel if he got penalised for something he physically could not do? Of course the clothes in his wardrobe are put away by me. We don't yell, we ask. They may get yelled at if they cross the road without looking, or run off too far ahead & out of sight, but this is more out of my fear than anything else, and always followed by my apology.

Tidying up, setting/clearing the table - both good life skills. As is not breaking/biting toys: are you advising that I leave these in their rooms, causing a potential choking hazard or possible injury? Because that's what it sounds like.

And it's good to know that, when you give background knowledge to gain perspective on a situation that is in need of advice, people will focus on the background rather than the situation at hand.

I did not ask for advice on my sons mental health - that are what trained medical professionals, that were already consulted (as stated), are for. I did not ask for advice on my divorce or introducing a new partner - which apparently I caused & did too soon (did Mark even read what I wrote??) No. I asked for advice on BEHAVIOUR, and if anyone could advise on anything that has worked for them.

[RockRose]

Bingo what Mark said.  You have a preschooler who tried to kill himself less than a year ago and you're focused on whether he puts his laundry away in a wardrobe he can't even reach apparently,  or sets the table,  and you've taken all their toys away.

This is a time to stop yelling at these children,  and make a warm and safe and loving nest for them to see if you can get them to heal.

And do find a good family therapist and listen to what the therapist says.  Your son is at grave risk for suicide,  and it's time to stop focusing on tiny irritations like they don't pick up their toys.

[misssurrey]

I'm not sure if you read my situation correctly. I never introduced my children to anyone I dated until my current boyfriend. And I only introduced him to them, knowing that this relationship would last. We wouldn't have moved in together otherwise. Which both children were active in making possible. They kept asking their dad to let them move, they kept telling their school friends we were moving (even before we knew we were!)

I have never taken the welfare of my children lightly, and I am offended at the insinuation that I have. I divorced my ex husband because of the emotional abuse to me & my son, his lack of wanting to be a parent (even before we moved in with my parents, they looked after them more than he did). If I was taking it lightly, would I have asked for advice?

It is such a sudden change in behaviour, happening in just the last 6 weeks, that it is concerning us. We moved 15 weeks ago. And before that, they had made 4 trips, ranging from 3-14 days, to the island. And it wasn't an easy decision to make. We agonised over moving the children to another country, with my boyfriend trying to get a job within England/Wales first.

They had similar behaviour at ages 2 & 4, but as I said before, the divorce was very trying for us all. And I knew it had affected the children a lot. But my parents & I, and then my boyfriend too once he had been introduced to them, always talked to them about their feelings. And as my son had trouble expressing them, he saw a psychologist and specialist nursery nurse.

[MarkLakewood3367]

Yes.  These type of situations are all too common these days with parents who tend to take these situations much too lightly as if their kids will simply adjust to major life changes without any significant problems.  As a family therapist,I have never known this to be true.

Kids typically have a very difficult time in any change in the family structure.  Misbehavior often results.  Instead of simply focusing on improving their behavior, it is much more important to help the kids emotionally adjust to all the changes in their lives.  And, never, never, introduce a mate to the kids when there is a chance the relationship may end.  This will only cause further problems especially if they get emotionally attached.

My recommendation is to get these kids in mental health therapy now before it is too late.  Individual, group, and family therapy is needed to help these kids emotionally adjust to the significant family changes. I'm talking talk therapy at least once a week, not necessarily medicating them as this typically masks the actual problems.  

Also, it would be best to allow the therapist(s) to make the call as to when or if a mate should be introduced to the kids based on the stability of the relationship and your kids' ability to emotionally digest the new relationship.  

This might seem like a hassle but these family changes were not their fault.  Now, it is time to do right by your kids.  Things will go further south if you don't get them the appropriate help and now!