Daughters irrational behaviors

[kaykay913]

My 5 year old daughter is under the care of a few psycologists.  She sees a counselor on a regular basis, and also has case management.  Her problem is her violent destructive behavior.  She will hit, kick, punch, spit, slap and bite. Not just her siblings and me, but the animals also. She started having "seizures" about 3 or so....they started from breath holding.  She has had every single test under the sun, and all of them say that she is normal in every aspect.  I recently found that she was urinating and deficating in the wastebasket in the bathroom.  We had a long talk, and it didn't happen again, or so I thought. On my routine trip upstairs to put away laundry I noticed this gawd awful stench.  Thinking that maybe the dog had an accident I busted out the steam cleaner, and went about my business.  2 days later the stench was still there.  I tore everything apart, and nothing.  I couldnt find it.  Then in the corner of her closet I found an old babywipe container full of urine.  I wanted to die as I gagged and gagged at the smell, and not to mention the gnats that followed.  I dont understand what I did wrong in her upbringing to make her like this.  I have been on antidepressants for almost 3 years now, and I feel really like I had done something wrong.  Please advise me on how to go about telling her counselor about this.  I am at my wits end.  I will never give up trying to understand her, but even this one baffles me!

[babygirl6152]

what I read about bipolar is that it cycles, and the swings are obvious and last for awhile then flip
example:
talkative for a week,busy busy impulsive behavior, then overly shy and quiet for a week (or however long her cycle is) from what you've written I don't see that as a diagnosis either.

ADHD behaviors would surely be exhibited outside the home also- so that is out!

so IF it's not medical and it is behavioral, at schools we usually use some behavior modifications- positive reinforcements----rewards or negative reinforcement like timeouts or losing privileges...

I just have lots of years experience working with kiddos, my own children, and I am kinda on the strict side but very loving. When something is not working I try to be proactive and try something else til I find something that works, so I am going to take a chance and put myself in your place for a minute.
Behaviors are not shown at school
Behaviors are not shown with caseworker
Behaviors ARE only with parents- "I don't scold her for things she does....."
you try to reason with her- IF she were my child, I would assume her will is stronger than mine- strong willed kiddos sort of have to have a little intimidation- sounds mean maybe, but if you want her to improve, and what you ARE TRYING is NOT working, I suggest you try tough love type discipline. It still leaves the child with their dignity.  I don't yell either but when my husband speaks- and when I speak in his absence my children knew we meant business.......

and believe it or not she may need even more structure to feel safe.
I would suggest two easy rules
respect adults  NO/tantrums/back talk/dumping her plate
obey adults

put these two rules on the refrigerator: talk thru some scenarios or even play them out and role play with other children or with dad- ask her- what looked wrong there?
So then you know everyone understands appropriate behavior- yes?

Every time she breaks these two rules she will receive a  discipline you choose and it will not be easy at all- but in the long run it will be better for everyone---- be firm and follow thru every single time....for a month- She sounds very smart, so it may even get worse, do NOT give up- she is just testing you to see if you will continue to follow thru but you have to every single time. If after a month or two she is not better you try something new. When things aren't working, and of course there is a chance this won't work, then, always try a new intervention after about a month or two.......

she is old enough to try to clean her messes after urinating etc- she will not do a perfect job but she will see it is not so cute after she has to clean it- make her scrub for at least 5 minutes......if she tries to quit after a minute - tell her it's not clean yet! Don't get emotional- just tell her consequences and follow thru, then give her a good bath. And of course when she is not looking, you will have to go back and clean it correctly but she won't know that.....
read on the net on "strong willed child" it should give you ideas for interventions. I am afraid she is taking advantage of her sweet family and I can tell you are sick about it, but you have made it clear she does it only at home.......

God be with you- write me on a message if you want to chat private
warm regards

[kaykay913]

Sorry, let me clarify my previous post, they say that she is normal in every aspect as to them not finding any medical related issues to her actions..(neuro drs). In school (kindergarden) her teacher says that she has no problems what so ever there, she is bright, and very eager to learn. I got her into case management as a means to figure out if it is something in her "home life" that is making her act this way.  My husband and other children and I have done family counseling, individual, and group counseling. We have a caseworker that comes to the house once a week to have a sit down, and just observe her in her natural environment where she feels most comfortable.  I feel that with someone else there she isn't inclined to acting herself, because as soon as she leaves it's like all hell breaks loose.  The only diagnosis that I have received thus far is "descructive behavior disorder" When I was told that I was thinking to myself, tell me something that I dont already know...I am paying you for what I came to that realization a long time ago. My daughter is very smart, she was crawling, walking, talking way earlier than my other children.  She loves to read and do productive things.  Then something in her snaps and the smallest of things will set her off.  If i ask her to finish what is on her plate before she has more, she flips the plate over and smarts off.  Little things like that are irritating.  I have tried to raise my kids with respect and morals.  They have small chores and earn an allowance.  I don't coddle her, I try to give her some responsibility to give her some self esteem when her actions are appropriate. I have done a lot of research on bi-polar, ADHD, and things of that nature, but in some ways she doesn't fit the profile.  We have a loving home environment with postive role models, no disruptions in patterns, and understanding.  I don't scold her for the things that she does, I dont embarass her, I try to sit her down and make her realize that her actions are inappropriate.  I know that yelling isnt going to get through to her, because her thought process is different, she doesnt see things the way that you and I do.  With this latest finding, it just adds to the confusion.  I am afraid that when she has her tantrums that she will hurt herself, or siblings.  She has bitten herself to the point of drawing blood.  She has even cut her own hair a few times.

[babygirl6152]

what diagnosis have they offered as possibilities?

[RockRose]

kaykay - I don't understand your post.  She's not deemed "normal in every aspect" if she has a social caseworker and a regular counselor.  They see a problem.  "The psych doctors all tell me she does have problems".  

I think maybe you should view this as "everyone recognizes she has behavior problems but they can't diagnose the cause  yet."    That's a world apart from "she is normal in every aspect".    

Just that - recognizing that everyone knows she has a severe problem but so far they can't figure out exactly how to treat her - is freeing.    It's not like everyone says she's top of her class and there is nothing to be worried about.

Is she in kindergarten?  What happens there?

[kaykay913]

I try to understand what exactly caused her to act like this, and for the life of me, I just cant comprehend why.  I think that is why I blame myself.  She was colic as a baby, constantly crying, ( i thought i would lose it then) and then since she turned 3 it all went downhill from there.  We have been to neurologists, cardio drs, everyone says she's fine, it's all in her head.  I cry myself to sleep every night wondering why she acts like this.  Temper tantrums last for hours on end.  She is forever making a scene in public.  I have gotten her into meaningful activities to keep her mind busy.  It just seems at times like she is out there in la la land.  The psych drs all tell me that she does have problems, but are reluctant to put her on any meds at all.  Im not pushing for them, but if it helps then I am all for it.  When she has an appt, she plays and is sweet as can be, then when we get home or stop somewhere look out.  It is very embarassing to say the least.  I have gotten into verbal arguements about disipline and was almost ran over by a complete stranger because I removed her from the store for acting out.  This urinating this is really worrying me.  I just dont know what to say or how to feel about it.  She has the i dont know attitude.  I really dont know what else to say.  I give her nothing but attention, because i know that she really needs the extra attention.  I jsut really dont know what else to do. Thanks for your insight..I appreciate it

[babygirl6152]

my parents had two kiddos that were a mess psychologically and two that were pretty normal- they reared us all basically the same

DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF