Thank you for your dietary advice. Its good to have a hobby, and even better if it is a healthy hobby involving taking care of yourself through exercise and diet. I wish you the best of luck in taking care of your needs. Growing your own fruit and vegetables and living a stress free life is not available to many people.
You may advise just walking away and practising self care, but there are quite a few people that suffer depression that also have jobs that kepp society ordered.
I'd say there are teachers, policeman, doctors, surgeons, dentisits, politiicans, mechanics. builders, farmers etc that suffer from depression and if they were to walk away and follow your advice what would happen to society? Who would take care of you? You cant do everything yourself - you are surrounded by - and you rely on depressed people whether you know it or not! So do your loved ones.
Dietary advice can tend to trivialise what for most people is a most disabling and misunderstood disease. I'm not saying some of your advice doesnt contain some merit for some people at some time of their life. All the best with your hobby.
Nothing in my post is related to not having a job to succeed in the lifestyle change i am proposing and the information regarding it is only there to give you knowledge on the importance of exercise and healthy diet+ vitamins and supplement since it's impossible to get the good nutriments intake with today's westerner's diet and processed food and pesticides bombarded agriculture.
I'm not going to suggest I agree with everything M4 says, or even most, but your cynicism, which might be a product of depression, has led you to attack the messenger for what he didn't even say. The fact is, the US, despite being the wealthiest nation in history by far, even in our current recession, has an epidemic of mental illness, autoimmune diseases, cancer, and odd diseases such as fibromyalgia unmatched by any other nation. Why would this be with all our wealth? I think all M4 is suggesting is that maybe we're doing it to ourselves. And as to a "hobby," friend, if you ain't involved in growing food, providing shelter or clothing, whatever you're doing is a hobby. You don't have to grow your own food, you can procure healthy clean food at health food stores and farmer's markets or buying clubs without leaving your neighborhood, so you don't have to change much. We're a nation of sick people and it's bankrupting us; we all have to try and be part of the solution if we ever want to stop suffering. Just a thought.
Yeah Pax this is the message I'm trying to spread... By the way what you don't agree with my post? I'm just curious.
Well, we have a lot of disagreements. First, I don't see things being as simple as you do. I guess I'm a lot older and I've seen a lot that just doesn't make that much sense, and you're still young and think things do more than they really do. Current knowledge is much shakier than what you sometimes describe it as. Now, that's just my opinion, not fact. Fact is a tricky thing. I also disagree, as you know, with much of your nutritional info. People are different, and you recommend certain foods which I don't believe most people do that well on, at least not in quantity. I definitely don't think people are necessarily going to lose their depression or anxiety by changing their diets and exercise patterns, though it certainly can help mitigate the effects. Now, some will get better, especially those whose problems stem from food allergies or intolerances such as to dairy and wheat. I'm just not so sure about curing this stuff once you have it without a lot of work and perhaps some luck. I tend to look at people as individuals, and avoid generalizations. What's good for one isn't necessarily going to work for another. But I do agree with your general message, which is that we really need to put more energy and money into research on what we're doing to ourselves, what is really food for homo sapiens now that we seem to have lost our instinct, what effect blood type and allergy and ethnicity etc. has on our health, and into just how well therapy and medications actually work and how they work and what the long-term harms are so we can look out for them and learn how to deal with them. On this we're in accord, and again, just because I disagree doesn't make me right.
I think you are too much biased because of your personal experiences... I'm only giving straight fact here... Also i don't recommend any specific food anymore. I know you are against diary product but it is not true that most of us lack lactase. Most of us have it and those who doesn't have it have lactose intolerance. After all we are mammals and your mother feeded you with milk. Only difference between your mother's milk and cow milk is These milks are low in iron and differ in the protein composition compared to mothers milk that other milks are low in iron and differ in the protein composition compared to mothers milk. Anyway i don't drink milk i drink soy beverage ''milk''. Look I don't want to argue no more but i studied biology, now studying biochemistry and neurobiology so i know my facts and how it works. Just get your facts straight before disagreeing. Yes I'm young but you have no idea how I'm all about learning and knowledge and studying to understand the world around me and who i am and who we are. This is why I also did some physics from MIT online lecture 8,01, 8,02, 8,03 and biology from there too. One last word, I don't say diet and exercise will cure everyone but it is a long-term solution since depression can be cured and drugs that are used can be be a good tool but not a long-term solution since our body is perfectly capable of balancing itself by giving some effort and believing in your body's own mechanisms. I'm also a lot into pharmaceutical since i have no choice for neurobiology and i strongly believe the chemical imbalances can be treated in a natural way. After all the human being is made to eat what the earth is giving that means biological fruits and vegetables from the nature and animals lower on the food chain. Mental disorders and a whole bunch of physical diseases started to appear as we disconnected from nature and processed our food, bombarded with pesticides our agriculture, genetically modified our food, cooking our food, living a stressful life etc. Anyway we can't change the way we evolved but we can surely help our body by consuming appropriate diet with supplements and vitamins/minerals. The human being needs the same 22 minerals that are found in the earth, we are made from the earth. There's nothing hard to understand in that. I'm not from greenpeace or whatever and i think all that happened was useful for our evolution but now there's a revolution happening with technology and this is what will probably safe us from the being the 6th mass extinction but we need to realize that we are coming from planet earth and the more we detach, the sicker we get. Until science main goal is achieved, that is, controlling and dominating every aspect of nature/earth the biosphere. But until then we are far from mind uploading and matrix like simulation and neural implants or whatever human enhancements we will have in the future like exocortex, powered exoskeletons, genetic engineering, nootropics.
Look, I agree with you mostly, M4, but you're just wrong on milk and "facts" are very few and far between. There's a difference between information and facts. Human milk is way different than cow's milk, and cow's milk is way different than goat's milk, etc. Cows aren't even a real animal, they were invented by humans who wanted meat with more fat in them. Ever seen a wild species of cow? I mean, there are wild oxen, buffalo, etc., but no cows. Same with wheat -- also invented by humans. A cow has one of the oddest digestive systems known. A cow chews up grass, which forms a medium for bacteria, and the cow feeds off the bacteria. That's why corn-fed cows get so fat and have so many diseases they need antibiotics -- too much sugar in the corn and too much fat, so the bacteria gets disrupted. And if you'll notice, calves don't drink milk once they're weaned, they eat grass. Only humans force food into them that isn't meant for them. Once we're weaned, that's it, milk isn't our food. It's that way with all mammals. Now, the milk. Human milk, assuming the mother eats what she should, contains DHA, just for one thing, that cow milk has little of. DHA is essential for the proper development of our cerebrum; cows don't have a cerebrum, and don't need much of it. Another key ingredient is colostrum. Human colostrum is very different from cow colostrum, though cow can be beneficial. That colostrum is essential for our immune systems, and it isn't in bottled milk, it's only in the first squirts of breast milk, whether you're a calf or a human. When I was young, milk companies convinced doctors that breastfeeding was inferior to formula, which was basically fortified cow's milk. That led to many allergies, auto-immune diseases, and neurological problems, and now the science is back in control and women are encouraged to breast feed again. So you see, quite different products. Now, goats and sheep have a far different digestive system than cows, much more similar to humans, so their milk is closer to ours, but still not the same. Most cultures don't drink much milk, they culture it as in yogurt or kefir. And no, most humans don't have lactase. Some tribes in India have it, some in Scandanavia, but most humans don't. Just the way it is. Now, don't take disagreement so seriously. You aren't God, and neither am I, which makes both of us fallible. Have some humility, 'kay? Peace.
I have considered Vitamin B as a potential cause for depression. However, I had blood tests on vitamin B and thyroid and they show no abnormality. Does this mean that I should still take the B supplements? Also, the depresssion has been bad since the prozac generic stopped working. As a result my doctor switched me to Wellbutrin. I agree with the exercising. I think it helps. Eating raw vegetables may help but it is difficult on the digestive system. What other links can you think of to aid in the reduction of depression. I switched from xanax to klonipin. I hope this does not add to the problem.
I'm sure M4 will have good info, but just some thoughts since he hasn't answered yet. Vitamin B supplements, especially what's called a stress B, provide additional support for the nervous system -- in other words, they're meant to give you extra, just as medication is meant to give you extra potency of natural processes. Switching to klonopin is common -- because it has a longer life in the body, it's considered safer for long-term use than Xanax due to less need for developing tolerance. And not all raw vegetables are hard to digest. It depends on the vegetable. For example, raw broccoli and kale and such have fibers that are very hard to digest raw and should be cooked. Spinach, on the other hand, is much better for you raw, as are carrots, celery, and other vegetables. Juicing is another way to get relatively raw food broken down without cooking. And cultured raw foods, such as kim chi and sauerkraut, are very good for digestion -- they promote it. So it just depends.
Nothing to add up to what Paxiled said other than when you cook your vegetables you break down most enzymes and nutriments that are helpful for you and your digestion but Paxiled is right too about what food you should cook and what not but your body can adapt to every raw food and I'm sure it will because raw food gives you the enzymes and nutriments you need. Vitamins B will not increase depression and B6 is known to have a considerable impact on the mood. Here's one of my post about vitamins B http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Alternative-Therapies-Community/Vitamin-B6-benefits/show/1130378
What is this doing on the Depression forum? Surely it belongs on a forum relating to food or similar. Here it's just taking up space and it is definitely NOT information for depressed people.
Well, personally, I think M4 and Paxiled are offering very helpful information. Of course, diet and exercise are not going to make depression disappear, however, eating well and exercising can certainly Improve our mood.
You have made my point. The writings above have little or nothing to do with depression. One might as well record how to construct a model boat in a bottle as it, too, helps distract the mind from one's depression.
But, like everything written above, it is not helpful in this forum and should not be here.
The original poster makes a dreadful statement initially calling a range of diseases "broken brains". That is disgusting, demeaning and insulting. You will also note that it did not include depression in that list. Which, again, means it does not belong here.
If we want dietary and exercise information there are places to find that, but not here.
You say ''You will also note that it did not include depression in that list. Which, again, means it does not belong here. ''
It includes depression.
''These problems include chronic stress, lack of focus, poor concentration, brain fog, anger, mood swings, sleep problems, or just feeling anxious or depressed most of the time''
The ''broken brain'' statement is not from me but from Dr. Mark Hyman, MD
I do believe the information have it's place here.
''There is an answer to brain problems, but it's not more drugs or psychotherapy. Although these tools can be a helpful bridge during your recovery from a broken brain, they won't provide long term solutions.''
You have no idea how malnutrition can be the underlying cause of many illness including depression. As an example if you search some information about vitamin B6 you will find that a deficiency in vitamin B6 can cause depression and a whole lot of problems.
The information i provided here is to help those who are willing to help themself. If you don't buy that information just don't comment on it and say it doesn't have it's place here because it is not true. There are more tools than drugs and psychotherapy to cure depression and people should be aware of it.
I invite you to read it again with an unbiased mind and I'm pretty sure you didn't read it all in the first place. If you think that the only information helpful in this forum is drugs , psychotherapy and supportive talk then you are wrong. What does not belong here is your frustration regarding a subject that more people should be aware of. You can't know it won't help you if you don't try it but most importantly if you think it won't help you keep that for yourself.
People should be aware of all the possible treatment options and also what might be an underlying cause.
Hello to you,
You said when 'just feeling anxious or depressed all the time". Those are common, every day sayings people use when they feel a bit down. As in "Oh, I'm so depressed today".
Not specifically suffering depression as a diagnosed illness. You do need to be specific when you talk about mental illness and you vaguley refer to people "feeling depressed".
Depression is a very serious illness, potentially fatal and your notes here on this forum are insulting to all those who suffer it and have beaten their hearts out trying every form of treatment available.
If it were as simple as eating your prescribed foods and doing some exercise then let me tell you many millions have tried it and failed. It does not cure or prevent depression. People flock to alternative treatments and always come away with less hope and usually less money.
Medical science still knows very little about the illness, and all mental problems, yet you have the gall to write this claiming it can cure anything.
And you ask me to have an unbiased mind. Oh dear. Pot, meet kettle.
To get directly to the point you seem to be one of these people who has appointed themselves an expert in something that no one on this planet can claim to be expert in. I'm not and nor are you.
I've not claimed anywhere I can cure depression. I know far better than that having seen my husband go through so much, with hope and always ending up back at the same place.
Your "information" trivialises a serious illness and should not be on this forum.
But as you will reply please tell us how many people you have cured of depression. And using what and over how long. Naturally with the success you allude to you will have a web site showing all the successes too will you not?
For if you can cure depression and all these other mental problems then, my dear, you exceed even the much vaunted powers of Jesus Christ, Happy Birthday to him by the way even thiough it's not actually his birthday.
Let's get down to facts dear. Tell us who you have cured. Tell us how to cure ourselves with your ideas. You write a lot but I see nothing of value in it relating to what everyone on this forum wants. Relief from depression. Do that and I will start your Fan Club and be Number 1 fan.
''depressed all the time'' = depression...
I cured myself since i went thru depression because my mom got a terminal cancer and I'm not going to talk to you anymore. All i want to do here is help people. I can tell them get some Cymbalta it's a great SNRI, i can say oh try that good old Zoloft it might just help. But i tried a different approach here that is to be considered as important as medication since we rely on food to survive and nowadays food is processed and people are not getting the proper intake of nutriments which are: vitamins, minerals, carbohydrates, lipids and proteins. I'm not saying that it will cure all of you but i am sure it can help some people that have an open mind and if they try it at least there body will feel better and since mind-body is interconnected.
Here's some example from www.wikipedia.org about 2 simple vitamin deficiencies.
Vitamin B6 deficiency: ''Deficiency may lead to anemia, depression, dermatitis, high blood pressure (hypertension), water retention, and elevated levels of homocysteine.''
Vitamin B12 deficiency: ''Deficiency results in a macrocytic anemia, elevated homocysteine, peripheral neuropathy, memory loss and other cognitive deficits. It is most likely to occur among elderly people as absorption through the gut declines with age; the autoimmune disease pernicious anemia is another common cause. It can also cause symptoms of mania and psychosis. In rare extreme cases, paralysis can result.''
Vitamin B3 deficiency: ''Deficiency, along with a deficiency of TRYPTOPHAN causes pellagra. Symptoms include aggression, dermatitis, insomnia, weakness, mental confusion, and diarrhea. In advanced cases, pellagra may lead to dementia and death.''
Serotonin is synthesized via Tryptophan. You might know that depressed people are probably having a lack of serotonin known as chemical imbalances in the brain. SSRIs ( selective serotonin reuptake inibitors ) are basically trying to keep a good balance of serotonin.
But people don't want to hear get some vitamins, have a healthy diet and be more active. They want pills because they think pills are the way to go because they are told so by the pharmaceutical industry and the commercial on the tv and most important of all, by their doctors.
How can exercise help with your depression now? Exercise will make you produce essential hormones that are essential for healthy mind-body. There are 8 hormones that are produced in great doses while doing physical activity and those include the growth hormone, estrogen, testosterone, thyroxine, glucagon, epinephrine, insulin and most importantly endorphins.
Endorphins: ''An endogenous opioid from the pituitary gland that blocks pain, decreases appetite, creates a feeling of euphoria (the exercise high), and reduces tension and anxiety. Blood levels of endorphins increase up to five times resting levels during longer duration (greater than 30 minutes) aerobic exercise at moderate to intense levels and also during interval training. Also, after several months of regular exercise, you develop an increased sensitivity to endorphins (a higher high from the same level of endorphins), and endorphins that are produced tend to stay in your blood for a longer period of time. This makes longer duration exercise easier (you're feeling no pain) and it causes your exercise high to last for a longer period of time after exercise.''
Estrogen: ''An important hormone in both males and females for maintaining muscle tone/volume/strength, increasing basal metabolic rate (metabolism), decreasing body fat, and feeling self-confident. It's produced by the ovaries in females and by the testes in males.
Females have only about one tenth the amount of testosterone that males do, but even at that level in females it also plays a role in libido and intensity of org*sms. Production of testosterone in females begins to decline as a woman begins to approach menopause and in males it begins to decline in his forties. Blood levels of testosterone increase with exercise in both males and females beginning about 20 minutes into an exercise session, and blood levels may remain elevated for one to three hours after exercise.''
Anyway I'm not going to go thru all the hormones and how they can help depression but you can see by yourself on the website.
Look your post was rather insulting and I'm done talking with you. You are 50 years old and acting like a child. If the knowledge i provided here don't apply to you fine but keep that for yourself. Anyway i just hope i was able to make you understand a bit how diet and exercise can help depression.
Any other insulting post will be reported and our whole conversation will get removed since you have moved the discussion to a word fight which is not the point of the post.
Thanks for understanding.
Read carefully what's the community description is telling when you enter the depression forum
This patient support community is for discussions relating to depression, counseling, sleep problems, and nutrition.''
All 100% true,,thats what we were taught along w group ,,,also its helpful to have spirtual side..anyones choice I do not judge but to have a belief in a higher power adds 2 years to your life and peace to your thinking...
I think since depression and other mental disorders are out of control in our society, one has to look at the food we are consuming as a possible cause. I like being open minded about any and all information regarding this. Before we had all the processed food, and our food was not being chemically enhanced, mental disorders were much rarer. Yes, we didn't have the knowledge to diagnose these problems years ago, but still fewer problems existed with emotional well being. I think diet plays a huge role in how we feel, and how well our brains function. Thanks for giving us something to consider, and more information to aid in our fight against these problems. They said the Wright Brothers would never fly...they did. They said nothing could sink the Bismarck...it did. I think we should not doubt anything.
Couldn't of said it better myself, mammo (and I didn't earlier either, apparently lol.)
Keep posting this great info, M4!!
I am into eating healthy and eat organic whole food since becoming an adult, i am now 45 years old.
Also i took high strength fish oils and multivitamins for 5 years before descending into severe psychotic depression. It was post natal and i had breast fed a child who could not tolerate milk for 18 months and she was my fourth and a very big baby, I wonder did i deplete myself somehow? I ended up on three medications and i was severely ill/ I just changed one night, i didn't sleep and four weeks later i was still awake and very irrational.
I exercise am fit and look the picture of health.
These are just the facts of my situation. I went into full remission since, it was four years ago i first got ill. I was 2 years on medication and came completely off and felt great, but only for a few weeks. But have since relapsed.
I am still trying all the advice you give, I am going to 'up' my B vitamins.
I have returned to meaningful work and am very successful and have been promoted, i am a good mother to four children. Oh how i wish i could find the answer, i have no more money for psychotherapy.
For some of us it is very hard. I am a good person, i would never do wrong by anyone, I wish i could find the answer.
I sincerely wish you get better and I'm sorry to hear you went thru such hard times. There is a new forum here on MedHelp where we discuss information that might be helpful for you it is the Alternative Therapies forum. I am writing a weekly informative post that could help you so I'm inviting you to join us.
The differences between milk of different mammal species is significant. Differences in proteins, fatty acids, water content of the milk etc, etc. The difference between cow milk and goat milk is fairly significant, different proteins, fatty acid profile etc. You can certainly tell the differences between the two milks in terms of taste. One major consideration is whether the milk is from a commercial dairy farm where cows are kept in a cycle of pregnancy and lactation. The majority of the milk is from pregnant animals, and is full of hormones associated with pregnancy- progesterone, estrogen, cortisol and no doubt many other undiscovered factors. The natural cycle is mating, pregnancy, then lactation, milk dries up, then mating again. That is essentially the milk that nomadic people drink where cattle are mated naturally. It's the milk that people drank 100 years ago or even just 50 years ago. The milk is not homogenised or pasteurised, and contains the full complement of unadulterated nutrition. This is a good food to consume, and has been the staple of many populations resulting in nothing but good health. The milk that we buy from the supermarket today, unfortunately is not this fantastic unprocessed product.
Yes, breast feeding depletes the mothers body of many nutritive factors. A fish oil supplement or eating seafood or other foods rich in omega 3 fatty acids would be of benefit, as breast milk contains a high portion of these essential fatty acids and can cause a temporary deficiency in the mother, sometimes resulting in psychological problems. The lack of sleep with a new baby can cause an increase in stress hormone levels such as cortisol. Plenty of rest and good nutrition is essential.