Aa
weak, lethargic
I have a 7 year old Affenpinscher, over the past year have spent over $10,000 trying to find out whats wrong w/her. Lethargic, not eating (except when on Prednisone ? sp) have had every test done all negative, xrays, thyroid, surgical lymph nodes in neck - removed n tested, she's just sickly. She was fine up till last August(09) and she got into some very old fish bait and was very ill--she was treated by VET for that...its seems to be down hill from there. Been to Tufts (MA) n full testing done there Jan-Feb 10. When on IV she seems better for 1-2 days then starts all over again...ugggg! She was given her shots about 1 month ago and started bleeding/diahhrea..back to vet on IV fluids for 4 days.. We love her so much and is the sweetist little 10 pd dog..BTW she was 12 pds when all started...
If anyone has any suggestions would greatly appreciate it... Thank you
If anyone has any suggestions would greatly appreciate it... Thank you
Hello & welcome.....For starters, this sick dog should have never been vaccinated....You stated that it all began a year ago. Was it right after her shots then, too?
Why did they remove her Lymph Nodes? What were they looking for?
What does her posture look like?
Will she eat anything? Any human food that she'll eat? What dog food do you feed?
What was the fish bait & how was she treated for this? Other than Iv's, was she given any medications that made her better?
Do her stools look normal? Did they do a urine culture?
Any other clues? Thanks, Karla
Why did they remove her Lymph Nodes? What were they looking for?
What does her posture look like?
Will she eat anything? Any human food that she'll eat? What dog food do you feed?
What was the fish bait & how was she treated for this? Other than Iv's, was she given any medications that made her better?
Do her stools look normal? Did they do a urine culture?
Any other clues? Thanks, Karla
Something else: Why is she on the Pred.? Does she suffer from allergies? Or is it to get her to eat? She's better on the Pred. right?
"Sickly" means what? Does she Vomit? Does she run a fever? Is all her blood work normal?
What were the xrays taken of?
I know that's alot of questions, but I'm hoping to help you....Karla
"Sickly" means what? Does she Vomit? Does she run a fever? Is all her blood work normal?
What were the xrays taken of?
I know that's alot of questions, but I'm hoping to help you....Karla
Sorry for not getting back to you earlier, OK.where to start...
She only eats when she is on the Pred...she is only on 1/4 tab daily. We have tried to ween her off, but she stops eating. Food...she loves "Ceasar" food, Roast Beef (rare) and the occasional Beneful in the tub (mixed up w/Ceasar). She does not handle medications well, actually never has, but she was on antibiotics w/the fish bait incident.
Her stools vacilate from normal to diarrhea, she does not like it if we go away or leave her w/our children (22 & 26)... today for instance...she walks like her back is humped a little..that is when she walks. Most of the time she just lays in her bed. I can see it in her eyes, that she is ? pain or not feeling well..she is the sweetest animal ever and I feel it that shes going "down hill". No to the allergies, been tested for that...no vomiting and she has run a fever (104 last month after her shots) Lymph node removed in Feb to test ? for cancer or ? that was at Tufts in Worcester...thats where they ran a full body blood, xrays etc and could not find anything wrong w/her...its just so hard to see her go this way...thanks for the concern we are over $10,000 in one year and how much do you keep spending ?
She only eats when she is on the Pred...she is only on 1/4 tab daily. We have tried to ween her off, but she stops eating. Food...she loves "Ceasar" food, Roast Beef (rare) and the occasional Beneful in the tub (mixed up w/Ceasar). She does not handle medications well, actually never has, but she was on antibiotics w/the fish bait incident.
Her stools vacilate from normal to diarrhea, she does not like it if we go away or leave her w/our children (22 & 26)... today for instance...she walks like her back is humped a little..that is when she walks. Most of the time she just lays in her bed. I can see it in her eyes, that she is ? pain or not feeling well..she is the sweetest animal ever and I feel it that shes going "down hill". No to the allergies, been tested for that...no vomiting and she has run a fever (104 last month after her shots) Lymph node removed in Feb to test ? for cancer or ? that was at Tufts in Worcester...thats where they ran a full body blood, xrays etc and could not find anything wrong w/her...its just so hard to see her go this way...thanks for the concern we are over $10,000 in one year and how much do you keep spending ?
COMMUNITY LEADER
I wonder if she needs a probiotic? If she responds badly to medication, she could have a lingering gut flora imbalance from that course of antibiotics. After antibiotic treatment I always make sure I give my dog either live yogurt (organic) or get a probiotic prescribed from the vet. It's worth a shot.
Welcome back...I've been wondering about you......First, you need to get this girl some food......Beneful or Cesars is not considered proper nutrition for a dog! (Or any species for that matter). They are both about the lowest of all foods made!......I don't blame her for not eating it....Please, there is nothing to help her get well in either one! Trust me!
IMO, Her digestive system is not working properly and her stomach hurts...
Resources to read about both your foods:
Perfoodratings(Dot)net
Dogfoodanalysis(Dot)com
Petfoodchat(Dot)com
Dogfoodadvisor(dot)?
All 4 places rate your foods as basically trash......I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have got to get her some nutrition.....
For now, you need to cook for her......Boil a piece of skinless chicken with rice in the pot....Add some veggies if you want....Canned(Rinsed) or frozen are fine....The rice will need to cook for 20 minutes, that will be long enough for the chicken, too.....This way, the rice has been cooked in chicken broth....Mix it up and see if she'll eat it....
You said she likes beef......You could do the same thing with some beef, hamb.meat, etc., but the chicken will be easier on her tummy till you can get it settled....
Don't worry about it being complete (Vitamin wise, as of yet). A few weeks will not hurt....
Ginger's right, She needs a probiotic.....A good one can be purchased at a health food store....The ones in the refrigerated section are the best....She will need 1/8-1/4 of human dose on bottle...Another shelf stable one is called "Culturelle" (Sp?). It can be found, in a box, at drug stores like Walgreens....It's little packets and they make one for infants....Dose as box says for infant size....
I think she also needs a Digestive enzyme.....My favorite is Prozyme (can be purchased online from many sources)....At least look it up and read about it....It breaks down food so that a dog's system does not have to work as hard.....Thus, energy can be used to heal! Makes the system absorb the nutrients from the food better, also..
Both of these products are tasteless powders and are vital to digestive health!!!!!
STart here.....I'm not done....I'll be back when I can........Karla
IMO, Her digestive system is not working properly and her stomach hurts...
Resources to read about both your foods:
Perfoodratings(Dot)net
Dogfoodanalysis(Dot)com
Petfoodchat(Dot)com
Dogfoodadvisor(dot)?
All 4 places rate your foods as basically trash......I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have got to get her some nutrition.....
For now, you need to cook for her......Boil a piece of skinless chicken with rice in the pot....Add some veggies if you want....Canned(Rinsed) or frozen are fine....The rice will need to cook for 20 minutes, that will be long enough for the chicken, too.....This way, the rice has been cooked in chicken broth....Mix it up and see if she'll eat it....
You said she likes beef......You could do the same thing with some beef, hamb.meat, etc., but the chicken will be easier on her tummy till you can get it settled....
Don't worry about it being complete (Vitamin wise, as of yet). A few weeks will not hurt....
Ginger's right, She needs a probiotic.....A good one can be purchased at a health food store....The ones in the refrigerated section are the best....She will need 1/8-1/4 of human dose on bottle...Another shelf stable one is called "Culturelle" (Sp?). It can be found, in a box, at drug stores like Walgreens....It's little packets and they make one for infants....Dose as box says for infant size....
I think she also needs a Digestive enzyme.....My favorite is Prozyme (can be purchased online from many sources)....At least look it up and read about it....It breaks down food so that a dog's system does not have to work as hard.....Thus, energy can be used to heal! Makes the system absorb the nutrients from the food better, also..
Both of these products are tasteless powders and are vital to digestive health!!!!!
STart here.....I'm not done....I'll be back when I can........Karla
Another thought: Prednisone is the wonderful (#1 choice) for back problems.......I'm thinking a "herinated disc" in back is a possiblity here. Because it can be so excruciatingly painful, the dog refuses to eat or get up to move around.....The humped back in your case, could be a sign......On Pred., the inflammation is better, off Pred., she can't stand it!
Google IVDD (Invertebral Disc Disease) and see if it may be possible.......
Sometimes a disc will not show up on an xray....
Anyway, this is something else to think about........Karla
P.S. A humped back can also be tummy problems as mentioned before or also constipation....
Another thought: Worm infestations can also cause what your describing.....Have you had a fecal sample analyzed?
Let me know...................Bye
Google IVDD (Invertebral Disc Disease) and see if it may be possible.......
Sometimes a disc will not show up on an xray....
Anyway, this is something else to think about........Karla
P.S. A humped back can also be tummy problems as mentioned before or also constipation....
Another thought: Worm infestations can also cause what your describing.....Have you had a fecal sample analyzed?
Let me know...................Bye
Thank you for your interest in Lulu..we do feed her chicken & rice, but she tires of it very quickly--in fact we buy a "bird" weekly and she will eat for a day then snub it...she loves the Ceasar and I know its not the best food for her but she will eat it... ? what to do...cooking her chicken right now!
Now, yes we have had her stool checked, at least our Vet and then Tufts took samples and ran them...I will look into the disc issue. This past week I ordered "Only Natural Pet Immune Strengthener & Only Natural Pet B.S.S.T. Herbal Formula 2 oz." I have not recvd them yet, I was their site, reading some stories and felt that she could use it. Some of the reviews were very similiar to Lulu.
www.onlynaturalpet.com
I have tried "Taste of the Wild" food even "raw" but she did not care for it ???
Thank you all for writing, I do appreciate all your words and I will try your suggestions.
I am looking forward to receiving the products from "Only Natural" and see how she responds to I will be in touch... :)
Now, yes we have had her stool checked, at least our Vet and then Tufts took samples and ran them...I will look into the disc issue. This past week I ordered "Only Natural Pet Immune Strengthener & Only Natural Pet B.S.S.T. Herbal Formula 2 oz." I have not recvd them yet, I was their site, reading some stories and felt that she could use it. Some of the reviews were very similiar to Lulu.
www.onlynaturalpet.com
I have tried "Taste of the Wild" food even "raw" but she did not care for it ???
Thank you all for writing, I do appreciate all your words and I will try your suggestions.
I am looking forward to receiving the products from "Only Natural" and see how she responds to I will be in touch... :)
2 weeks ago our vet did a "digestive enzimes" test on her...came back normal...
today her back is not as humped as is other days, i just read the info on the disc and ? I will look at her paperwork to see if any testing was done for that sometimes at nite she will just cry not all the time... I seem to think they did run something on that. A ChiroVet was recommened, honestly have not looked into that yet...?
She ate about 1/2 a plate of cooked chicken just now so thats good...her breed is a "ratter" and I have to tell you, right now she is standing guard at our outside hose box..there is a chipmunk that hangs out there and she is just standing there staring...been about 10 minutes now! (she's feeling better today I can tell since she wants to be outside!) thanks again...
today her back is not as humped as is other days, i just read the info on the disc and ? I will look at her paperwork to see if any testing was done for that sometimes at nite she will just cry not all the time... I seem to think they did run something on that. A ChiroVet was recommened, honestly have not looked into that yet...?
She ate about 1/2 a plate of cooked chicken just now so thats good...her breed is a "ratter" and I have to tell you, right now she is standing guard at our outside hose box..there is a chipmunk that hangs out there and she is just standing there staring...been about 10 minutes now! (she's feeling better today I can tell since she wants to be outside!) thanks again...
What is Prozyme used for. My Yorkshire Terrier often has a stomach that makes loud noises and trouble digesting. I am giving him a probiotic but would prozyme also be worth giving to him. Please let me know what you think.
Yesterday she was active (more than usual) she ate the cooked chicken and was a little peppy...today, not so good...no to the chicken, snubbed her nose and walked away~~ back to her bed :( so frustrating... I will give her her pred and pepcid ac (all 1/4 tab) and she if she wants to eat later on...
Prozyme is a digestive enzyme that helps the stomach digest the food more completely. It would probably be a great thing to try for your Yorkie.
Good luck!
Good luck!
No food for today and just a little yesterday..have not recvd the shipment yet so can't say anything about that....
OK, Saturday she was good, ate some and her back was not humped...Correct?
She did more than usual that day & now she's bad again..Right? Is her back humped again today & yesterday? Feel of her stomach, is it tight? Put your hands on both sides from the top & see if you can feel abdominal tension.....
If the answers to the above questions are yes, I feel strongly that this is a disc problem...Does she keep her head hung down? When she walks?
What dose of pred. is she taking? I know you give a 1/4, but of what milligram?
I don't think you need a ChiroVet...She needs a Neuroligist! He (Only he/she) may can see a problem on previous xrays.....If they were taken of her neck & back....
I found listings for 7 Neuros. in your state...There IS one at Tufts Univ. His name is Dr. Dominik Faissler. Since your records are all already there, that's where I'd take her.....
Pred. (At the right dose) & painkillers, along with weeks of cage rest is the protocol....Has you tried any pain meds.? That may be your clue....
Something else:
Just FYI, there's a online store called "K9 Cuisine" that offers samples of most dry dog food....This is a wonderful company & I have shopped w/them many times.....Most of the products they sell are high end foods! Their samples are listed under each food available.....You just click on sample.....This is a great way to try different foods without wasting whole bags. ;( The samples are free, you will have to pay shipping.....Still though, you can't beat that! They will be on your doorstep in 3 days...No, I'm not kidding.....
Another food to look at: "Ziwi Peak". Go to their homepage and check out their food....It is made in New Zealand, but there will be U.S. link......If you send them an email inquiring about their food, they will send you 3 samples of food & a bag of treats.....It will arrive in 2 wks. This is a must, as this food is incredible! Their canned food is also great.....Most places sell the canned buy the case......"Only Natural Pet" sells it by the can.....Something to think about.....
OK, keep me posted...I gotta go out and mow the lawn..........Karla
She did more than usual that day & now she's bad again..Right? Is her back humped again today & yesterday? Feel of her stomach, is it tight? Put your hands on both sides from the top & see if you can feel abdominal tension.....
If the answers to the above questions are yes, I feel strongly that this is a disc problem...Does she keep her head hung down? When she walks?
What dose of pred. is she taking? I know you give a 1/4, but of what milligram?
I don't think you need a ChiroVet...She needs a Neuroligist! He (Only he/she) may can see a problem on previous xrays.....If they were taken of her neck & back....
I found listings for 7 Neuros. in your state...There IS one at Tufts Univ. His name is Dr. Dominik Faissler. Since your records are all already there, that's where I'd take her.....
Pred. (At the right dose) & painkillers, along with weeks of cage rest is the protocol....Has you tried any pain meds.? That may be your clue....
Something else:
Just FYI, there's a online store called "K9 Cuisine" that offers samples of most dry dog food....This is a wonderful company & I have shopped w/them many times.....Most of the products they sell are high end foods! Their samples are listed under each food available.....You just click on sample.....This is a great way to try different foods without wasting whole bags. ;( The samples are free, you will have to pay shipping.....Still though, you can't beat that! They will be on your doorstep in 3 days...No, I'm not kidding.....
Another food to look at: "Ziwi Peak". Go to their homepage and check out their food....It is made in New Zealand, but there will be U.S. link......If you send them an email inquiring about their food, they will send you 3 samples of food & a bag of treats.....It will arrive in 2 wks. This is a must, as this food is incredible! Their canned food is also great.....Most places sell the canned buy the case......"Only Natural Pet" sells it by the can.....Something to think about.....
OK, keep me posted...I gotta go out and mow the lawn..........Karla
I wonder too what Misfits4me stated about the possibility of worm infestation. Have you read what was in the bait? You sait it was old, could she have gotten a infection that has now taken root in her spine? I was just reading last night about different worms that pets and people get. There is one worm that is found in fish that most wormers do not have for our dogs. I would write to Dr. Jean Dodds and ask her if she has any ideas as well, she is very nice, just look her up on the internet. Giver her as much information as you can so she can help you better and in less time.
I just wrote to Dr Dodds, I will let you know if she responds.
Last night, gave her chicken...cooked it up w a small 1/4 tsp of gravy and same amout of butter for flavor..and she ate it--about 1 1/2 cups!...but last night she just wimpered n cood (I know not a word but thats what it sounds like) for hours. About 3AM she finally stopped after 2 visits outside (only pee..no poop) (If I just warm the chcken she won't eat it..nor cold for that fact) Thanks everyone for your concern...its very comforting...
Last night, gave her chicken...cooked it up w a small 1/4 tsp of gravy and same amout of butter for flavor..and she ate it--about 1 1/2 cups!...but last night she just wimpered n cood (I know not a word but thats what it sounds like) for hours. About 3AM she finally stopped after 2 visits outside (only pee..no poop) (If I just warm the chcken she won't eat it..nor cold for that fact) Thanks everyone for your concern...its very comforting...
I thought my dogs might have worms and dewormed them just to make sure. What I noticed was small magets( the vet thinks)...but I did not know at the time( My dogs did not have worms, the flies took to the fresh poop quickly) and was reading up on worms, your dogs could have round worms. The symptoms do sound like that. Ask your vet if you can try this first and just pick up a wormer from them.
I agree about the diet, that stuff you have been feeding is not good and it gave my dog diahrea badly, and one incident of blood from the rectum so I quit and went to Mother Hubbard Wellness formula. But if yours is sick, like you describe I would take her off of everything except a little hamburger browned with some rice in it which is easy on the tummy per my vet. When her bowels straighten out, switch her over to natural no grains formula. I would also check out any side effects of whatever flea meds she is taking. (I have a friend who lost her dog after giving comfortis). Immediately after giving it the dog started behaving completely lethargic and caused intestinal issues almost immediately. Just a thought.
I have been in contact with Dr. Carol, now doing the IV treatment at home and waiting on her treatment plan. I will let you know...she had a very bad weekend so I'm hoping that we can help her soon.
Thanks EVERYONE for your thoughs, ideas etc...believe me I am taking everything to heart. SHe is only eating chicken now...that is when she eats at all...
Thanks EVERYONE for your thoughs, ideas etc...believe me I am taking everything to heart. SHe is only eating chicken now...that is when she eats at all...
Hi....I've been thinking about you & Lulu......Dr. Carol seems like a lovely person......I'm sure interested in this prognosis & outcome. (Just for my knowledge).
What are the IV treatments being used for? Can you tell us or not? Just curious...
Anyway, good luck to you both & keep us updated if you can.....Karla
What are the IV treatments being used for? Can you tell us or not? Just curious...
Anyway, good luck to you both & keep us updated if you can.....Karla
She is severly dehydrated and feels that this will lead to kidney problems. Getting lots of enzymens, vitamins, pre & pro biotics sent to me, hopefully today, so that we can start her on a daily program. I have changed her diet (yes!!!) and she seems to be eating a little better. Still sleeps alot but her movement is slightly easier to get up out of bed etc...
I will keep everyone informed of her progress...thanks everyone for you kind words and encouragement!
Lulu's Mom...
I will keep everyone informed of her progress...thanks everyone for you kind words and encouragement!
Lulu's Mom...
Dear
I have a lebra dor and he was acting in the same way as your dog is right now. Ten i came across a website(www.petcareprod.com) and they suggested me a diet plan which prove to be one of the best. They saved my lovely dog.
Thanks
I have a lebra dor and he was acting in the same way as your dog is right now. Ten i came across a website(www.petcareprod.com) and they suggested me a diet plan which prove to be one of the best. They saved my lovely dog.
Thanks
Hi Lulu's mom, How's Lulu doing? I've been wondering about you both......Check in when you can......Thanks, Karla
Hi Karla,
Thank you for your continued interest in Lulu...
WELL!!! As I said earlier, I have been in touch with Dr. Carol (Osborne) and she has just been terrific. We changed her diet--totally--chicken, sweet/regular potato, vegetable (although she does figure out how to not eat them all the time) on her Paws AM & PM, Digestive enzymes and a whole list of other things,,
SHe is doing much better, not 100% but at least she is moving a bit...plus her poops are heathier...she actually jumped up on the couch the other day!!!
Sure this will be a long road but I can see a bit of progress already...
I am so thankful to Dr. Carol...she has been just wonderful!
More later...and thanks everyone!
Thank you for your continued interest in Lulu...
WELL!!! As I said earlier, I have been in touch with Dr. Carol (Osborne) and she has just been terrific. We changed her diet--totally--chicken, sweet/regular potato, vegetable (although she does figure out how to not eat them all the time) on her Paws AM & PM, Digestive enzymes and a whole list of other things,,
SHe is doing much better, not 100% but at least she is moving a bit...plus her poops are heathier...she actually jumped up on the couch the other day!!!
Sure this will be a long road but I can see a bit of progress already...
I am so thankful to Dr. Carol...she has been just wonderful!
More later...and thanks everyone!
Oh.........I'm so excited for you.... Thank you for the update, as I have been wondering about her....
Are you speaking with Dr. Carol by phone or email? Just curious....Again, she seems like a lovely person....I have read her webpage for years.....
Hint: My female picks the veggies out and spits them on the floor. ;) My boys will eat anything.....I have found that by cooking the veggies along with the chicken, gives them better flavor and she will eat them this way....Actually, what I do is boil everything in one pot, thus the veggies have been cooked in the natural chicken broth. This seems to work better! I use frozen veggies and pull what I need out of the freezer.....
Anyway again, thank you for the update....I'm really happy for you.....Good dog days make for good people days don't they? Take care, Karla
Are you speaking with Dr. Carol by phone or email? Just curious....Again, she seems like a lovely person....I have read her webpage for years.....
Hint: My female picks the veggies out and spits them on the floor. ;) My boys will eat anything.....I have found that by cooking the veggies along with the chicken, gives them better flavor and she will eat them this way....Actually, what I do is boil everything in one pot, thus the veggies have been cooked in the natural chicken broth. This seems to work better! I use frozen veggies and pull what I need out of the freezer.....
Anyway again, thank you for the update....I'm really happy for you.....Good dog days make for good people days don't they? Take care, Karla
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