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Wife Tested Positive - Question
I'm going to post a question on the doctors forum but they're already at their limit today. My wife and I had our first child yesterday. She tested 3 weeks ago for the required HIV yet and was negative. When they tested before delivery, it was a positive result. You can imagine what we're going through. She says she hasn't had any other sexual partners and I believe her. Naturally, I then thought about myself and an experience I had in a Mexican strip club 3 months ago. It was low risk, (head of penis might have rubbed against her underwear) but the thought is still there.
So I immediately went out yesterday and took a Home Access test which came back today as negative. They sent my wifes off to get a Western Blot test but it won't be back for a week. The doctor thinks it's a false positive.
My question is this, what are the odds that I am a carrier, infected my wife 2 months ago (the last time we had sex) but still don't show antibodies today? It just doesn't make sense.
As you can imagine we're concerned about our daughter who has to stay on treatment until my wife and her blood tests come back.
Would you assume my Home Access at 12 weeks is definite or is there a chance that I could have given it to her a couple months ago but still test negative?
So I immediately went out yesterday and took a Home Access test which came back today as negative. They sent my wifes off to get a Western Blot test but it won't be back for a week. The doctor thinks it's a false positive.
My question is this, what are the odds that I am a carrier, infected my wife 2 months ago (the last time we had sex) but still don't show antibodies today? It just doesn't make sense.
As you can imagine we're concerned about our daughter who has to stay on treatment until my wife and her blood tests come back.
Would you assume my Home Access at 12 weeks is definite or is there a chance that I could have given it to her a couple months ago but still test negative?
I am glad that this is finally resolved for you and I am sorry that you had to go through it in the first place. Your paranoia was understandable- it's always easier for the people offering advice to be objective about these things than those who are in the midst of a scare. Best wishes to your family.
J.
J.
My wife just got back bloodwork from the I.D. Specialist.
WB was negative, Antigen test was negative and ELISA was negative. We can finally move on.
I know that you guys have been saying this all along, but when you're one of the 1/1000 people that get a false positive, and it could effect your entire family, it's hard not to be paranoid. Hopefully, anyone else in our situation will read this thread and get some reassurance. In summary, here's what I've learned from spending WAY too much time on this forum the last few weeks. These aren't my words, but just a summary of Teak, Joggen, etc.
1. For a conclusive negative antibody test, you must wait 12 weeks. No, there's no difference in 12 or 13 weeks. Most people will show signs at 6-8 weeks so if you do want to take a test then for peace of mind, do so but knowing you'll have to wait 12 for conclusive results.
2. False Positive ELISA's DO occur and are more common in pregnancies for reasons unknown. It happened with my wife... it can happen with you.
3. A DNA PCR test is not approved. An RNA PCR test is approved and can detect viral loads to 20 copies but should only be used as a test following a positive antibody test, not as a standalone. If you test negative on PCR, it's not conclusive but it's a very good sign. A negative antibody test should be followed up at 12 weeks.
4. A DUO test isn't offered in the US but if you can get one, it's a good indicator of your status after 4 weeks. You should still take a 12 week antibody to confirm.
5. The large majority of indeterminate western blots end up being negative.
6. You can test indeterminate on a western blot and then take it a week later and test negative (as was the case with my wife).
7. Finally, I.D. Specialists are going to be VERY hesitant to give you any type of conclusive results without running multiple tests. This forum is great because it gives you odds on things happening, but keep in mind that most doctors aren't going to give you that. They're going to run as many tests as possible because of the litigious society we live in unfortunately.
Thanks to everyone's help on this board. These last couple of weeks have been extremely hard, especially considering there was a new child involved. This entire episode has motivated me to give back to those that don't receive great news at the end of this and I've already looked into donating my time to the local HIV support groups in our city.
WB was negative, Antigen test was negative and ELISA was negative. We can finally move on.
I know that you guys have been saying this all along, but when you're one of the 1/1000 people that get a false positive, and it could effect your entire family, it's hard not to be paranoid. Hopefully, anyone else in our situation will read this thread and get some reassurance. In summary, here's what I've learned from spending WAY too much time on this forum the last few weeks. These aren't my words, but just a summary of Teak, Joggen, etc.
1. For a conclusive negative antibody test, you must wait 12 weeks. No, there's no difference in 12 or 13 weeks. Most people will show signs at 6-8 weeks so if you do want to take a test then for peace of mind, do so but knowing you'll have to wait 12 for conclusive results.
2. False Positive ELISA's DO occur and are more common in pregnancies for reasons unknown. It happened with my wife... it can happen with you.
3. A DNA PCR test is not approved. An RNA PCR test is approved and can detect viral loads to 20 copies but should only be used as a test following a positive antibody test, not as a standalone. If you test negative on PCR, it's not conclusive but it's a very good sign. A negative antibody test should be followed up at 12 weeks.
4. A DUO test isn't offered in the US but if you can get one, it's a good indicator of your status after 4 weeks. You should still take a 12 week antibody to confirm.
5. The large majority of indeterminate western blots end up being negative.
6. You can test indeterminate on a western blot and then take it a week later and test negative (as was the case with my wife).
7. Finally, I.D. Specialists are going to be VERY hesitant to give you any type of conclusive results without running multiple tests. This forum is great because it gives you odds on things happening, but keep in mind that most doctors aren't going to give you that. They're going to run as many tests as possible because of the litigious society we live in unfortunately.
Thanks to everyone's help on this board. These last couple of weeks have been extremely hard, especially considering there was a new child involved. This entire episode has motivated me to give back to those that don't receive great news at the end of this and I've already looked into donating my time to the local HIV support groups in our city.
there is no reason for this thread to continue...there is nothing more than anyone can say.
you NOR your wife have hiv...its just that simple ! ! !
you NOR your wife have hiv...its just that simple ! ! !
Teak - I can't believe it either, but at this point... on an anonymous message board... it would be ridiculous for me to leave ANY facts out if I'm trying to get answers to ease my mind. It wouldn't make any sense to "hide" something.
Everything I've written is true... which is why I'm on this board trying to seek answers.
Everything I've written is true... which is why I'm on this board trying to seek answers.
Vance, I'm in the same boat as you. I don't know why it's taking so long for someone to tell us she's negative either. As I mentioned, the ID Specialist stated that the Viral load and recent antibody tests were NOT enough evidence and he needed to do a p24.
Teak can go ahead and close the thread if he feels like it's been resolved, but I've only posted when we get new results or hear from new doctors.
Teak can go ahead and close the thread if he feels like it's been resolved, but I've only posted when we get new results or hear from new doctors.
I really don't know why it is taking so long to get this to a conclusion. You have negative tests, she now has negative tests. You are both negative.
Unless someone is not telling the truth...you are wife about exposures.
Unless someone is not telling the truth...you are wife about exposures.
Teak, we want to believe that but it's not like I'm freaking out about nothing here. She tested positive and indeterminate on the western blot. An ID can't confirm that she's negative. It's scary. Cut me some slack here.
How in the world could your wife be positive without having an exposure? Either she cheated on you or she didn't. You don't have HIV and she didn't get it from thin air.
Just got back from the ID OBGYN and we're anxious all over again. He recommended that my wife stop breastfeeding and get our daughter back on the medication. Apparently, the Viral Load was not conclusive enough for him because the WB had an indeterminate result due to the p24 weak reaction.
He had her give blood for a p24 antigen test. I'm a little unclear, but I'm assuming that he's taking that test because there could be a chance that she could have antigens in her blood and the viral load would be less than 20 copies. (which is what the RNA test went to)
Here are a couple of questions in my mind right now:
1. Would there ever be a case where the viral load was less than 20 copies and she did have HIV antigens in her blood?
2. What would that window period look like? Based on what I've read, it sounds like that is a small window and would only be the case if she was exposed 1-3 weeks prior? (she hasn't had intercourse in 8 weeks)
3. If the first positive test detected antibodies or antigens, why wouldn't the Oraquick have picked it up later in the week? (he dismissed the Oraquick saying it wasn't that reliable although he might have meant it's not that reliable in this case because it wouldn't pick up antigens)
He said that if the results of the p24 antigen test come back negative, then that's enough for him to sign off on a false positive. Until then, he can't be sure.
He had her give blood for a p24 antigen test. I'm a little unclear, but I'm assuming that he's taking that test because there could be a chance that she could have antigens in her blood and the viral load would be less than 20 copies. (which is what the RNA test went to)
Here are a couple of questions in my mind right now:
1. Would there ever be a case where the viral load was less than 20 copies and she did have HIV antigens in her blood?
2. What would that window period look like? Based on what I've read, it sounds like that is a small window and would only be the case if she was exposed 1-3 weeks prior? (she hasn't had intercourse in 8 weeks)
3. If the first positive test detected antibodies or antigens, why wouldn't the Oraquick have picked it up later in the week? (he dismissed the Oraquick saying it wasn't that reliable although he might have meant it's not that reliable in this case because it wouldn't pick up antigens)
He said that if the results of the p24 antigen test come back negative, then that's enough for him to sign off on a false positive. Until then, he can't be sure.
False positives on a rapid test aren't really that rare when you take into consideration the level of potential risk. If rapid test has 99.6% specificity, then 1 out of 250 tests will be falsely positive. For a typical heterosexual encounter with someone of unknown status, the risk of contracting HIV is 1 in million. So any individual under this testing protocol who has a typical exposure is 4000 times likely to have a false positive result than a true positive result. And that isn't even taking the elevated risk of false positives that can occur during pregnancy into consideration. That is something that an infectious disease pediatrician should take into consideration whereas a regular pediatrician would not. Hopefully he will give you the closure that you need tomorrow.
By the way joggen... with regards to your question about them giving her another test, it seems like that is the new requirement now.
One test in the first trimester, one test in the third trimester and then hospitals always run one right before any surgical procedure (which is the one that was reactive).
This article from 2000 seems to be extremely consistent to what we're going through. Hopefully, if someone in the future runs into this same problem and reads this thread, this will explain a few things.
http://archfami.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/9/9/924
One test in the first trimester, one test in the third trimester and then hospitals always run one right before any surgical procedure (which is the one that was reactive).
This article from 2000 seems to be extremely consistent to what we're going through. Hopefully, if someone in the future runs into this same problem and reads this thread, this will explain a few things.
http://archfami.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/9/9/924
It's a little nerve racking. Her OBGYN says that we should just let it go because no one is going to be able to give us a CONCLUSIVE answer for a while but the recent antibody test and PCR test should be enough. That said, he's not a specialist of course and can't give us formal advice.
We had our first pediatrician appointment this week after our PCR test and he upset my wife all over again because he kept saying that "False Positives are VERY, VERY rare". I wasn't happy the way he delivered that to say the least. It's not like he was telling us something we didn't know.
The HIV specialist that gave us the PCR said that there is a 99.99% chance that everything was fine (due to the viral load being negative) but to come back in for more testing IF we wanted to. (consistent to what you guys have been saying)
Lastly, we have an appointment with an infectious disease pediatrician tomorrow. Hopefully, he will help us get some closure on it. I just assumed that the PCR would be the conclusive test and unfortunately, it seems like know one can give us a definitive answer.
In the meantime, I think I'm starting to suffer a case of Cyberchondria as things like HIV2 possibilities start popping up in my mind.
We had our first pediatrician appointment this week after our PCR test and he upset my wife all over again because he kept saying that "False Positives are VERY, VERY rare". I wasn't happy the way he delivered that to say the least. It's not like he was telling us something we didn't know.
The HIV specialist that gave us the PCR said that there is a 99.99% chance that everything was fine (due to the viral load being negative) but to come back in for more testing IF we wanted to. (consistent to what you guys have been saying)
Lastly, we have an appointment with an infectious disease pediatrician tomorrow. Hopefully, he will help us get some closure on it. I just assumed that the PCR would be the conclusive test and unfortunately, it seems like know one can give us a definitive answer.
In the meantime, I think I'm starting to suffer a case of Cyberchondria as things like HIV2 possibilities start popping up in my mind.
If she was positive for HIV-2 then the most recent oraquick would have picked it up. False positives on rapid tests actually are fairly common, and I'm somewhat perplexed as to why your wife was administered one when she already had a negative blood test 3 weeks prior.
What are your doctors saying at this point? Are they requiring a repeat Western Blot as well?
What are your doctors saying at this point? Are they requiring a repeat Western Blot as well?
Just wanted to give a quick update. My wife took her RNA PCR last week and the result came back as <20ml which is essentially negative. To say the least, this was extremely relieving.
The last question I have (cut me a break, my wife tested positive and it's been an emotional week to say the least) is whether or not she could have HIV2, which wouldn't come up in the PCR tests from what I understand. I know its extremely rare, but so are false positives so I'm thinking of all options here because at this point, odds don't really mean much.
Would the doctors at the hospital been able to see if she reacted to HIV2 vs HIV1? Surely they would have thought of this option with a child involved.
The last question I have (cut me a break, my wife tested positive and it's been an emotional week to say the least) is whether or not she could have HIV2, which wouldn't come up in the PCR tests from what I understand. I know its extremely rare, but so are false positives so I'm thinking of all options here because at this point, odds don't really mean much.
Would the doctors at the hospital been able to see if she reacted to HIV2 vs HIV1? Surely they would have thought of this option with a child involved.
Thanks Vance. I hope you're right. If there were antibodies present on Monday then I'm assuming the Oraquick would have picked them up today. At least, that's what we're praying for. As you can imagine, this has turned our world upside down and we still have our baby on HIV meds per the doctors orders. It's unbearable to wait.
We went and both took blood for viral loads today which should be back in two days. I'm assuming that would be conclusive.
We went and both took blood for viral loads today which should be back in two days. I'm assuming that would be conclusive.
If she was really positive then the recent test would have picked it up. And like what everyone has said this leads up to a false positive.
Just those that responded an update. My wife and I both took an oraquick test today. Both results were negative. I'm really hoping that there is no chance that it's not picking up something the Elisa test did at the hospital. Oraquick is 3rd generation so I'm assuming that if the hospital test picked it up, then this one would as well.
bottom line is YOU didnt give your wife hiv. if your wife has had no "exposures"...then she doesnt have hiv either.
You had no risk from what happened at the strip club. So let that go. Now that being said. What risks has your wife ever had? In a case like this you have to start thinking of was there a chance in the past you or your wife ever had risky incodents. If not than there is no way she could have HIV. More than likely her test are fales possitive.
"I've read here that 12 weeks with no antibodies is conclusive. I'm assuming the Home Access would pick up any of the strands if they were positive in me?"
The HA would pick up all strands. You don't have HIV.
The HA would pick up all strands. You don't have HIV.
Teak, I don't think so. The last sexual intercourse she had was with me 8 weeks ago. She does not use drugs. As I mentioned, I tested negative for antibodies through Home Access yesterday. It was 12 weeks after any type of potential exposure I might have had. I'm still paranoid that I actually have HIV, passed it to her 8 weeks ago, but my body is still not producing antibodies but hers is just starting to which is why it showed up 8 weeks later. Is that possible?
I've read here that 12 weeks with no antibodies is conclusive. I'm assuming the Home Access would pick up any of the strands if they were positive in me?
With just doing some brief research, it also looks like the p24 antigens show up only between 1-3 weeks post exposure. Is that right?
Joggen - thanks for the heads up. I just looked at Dr. H's reply and will respond.
I've read here that 12 weeks with no antibodies is conclusive. I'm assuming the Home Access would pick up any of the strands if they were positive in me?
With just doing some brief research, it also looks like the p24 antigens show up only between 1-3 weeks post exposure. Is that right?
Joggen - thanks for the heads up. I just looked at Dr. H's reply and will respond.
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