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PVC / BP relation
Well i am new to the forum (hi everyone) and was going to write a bit about me and my situation and how it develops over the next few weeks.
to keep it short and simple and no one wants to read an essay haha
I am 30yr old male, 6ft 1, 165lbs, body fat % around 5-7%, don't smoke, drink booze or any caffeinated drinks, couldn't afford cocaine even if i wanted to and am very fit. I exercise at least 8 times a week and am a big cycling / rower fan and a resting heart rate low 40's
2 weeks ago out of the blue i start having what was later via ECG and stress test said to be PVC's. Now everyone even i up until this point had a few of these every now and then. What concerned me i went from every now and then to 5-10 a min 24 / 7 right out of nowhere.
The echo showed i had a really big left ventricle and wall but this is associated with all the endurance sport i do and was otherwise structurally fine and my EF when my heart was not having a PVC was great however when it was having a PVC it was in the lower %
I have an MRI of my heart this coming week scheduled and have just returned a 48hour holter monitor to monitor how many i have a day. I have been advised that if 10% or more of my daily heart beats are PVC's that being young and healthy i should consider ablation (i have no problem with this and would prefer this to taking medication my entire life)
Symptoms since this started 2 weeks ago include
dizziness / lightheadedness when i stand, headache's and also my blood pressure has shot up.
normally / pre PVC's my BP was around 110/80..the last 2 weeks i have had readings around 135-150 / 70-80
So thats my situation (which i will update when i get holter and MRI news)
My question is can this high PVC burden i now have be responsible for the huge increase in my blood pressure, as my thinking is that if my heart is having a large amounts of "skips" that therefore means the next beat "the thud" has longer to fill with blood and is more forceful and so would cause my blood pressure to be more
The cardiologist seems to think it is white coat syndrome but honestly i am not that stressed about it so was wondering if a lot of PVC's could actually cause an increase in ambient BP due to the larger % of fuller heart beats occurring
Cheers
to keep it short and simple and no one wants to read an essay haha
I am 30yr old male, 6ft 1, 165lbs, body fat % around 5-7%, don't smoke, drink booze or any caffeinated drinks, couldn't afford cocaine even if i wanted to and am very fit. I exercise at least 8 times a week and am a big cycling / rower fan and a resting heart rate low 40's
2 weeks ago out of the blue i start having what was later via ECG and stress test said to be PVC's. Now everyone even i up until this point had a few of these every now and then. What concerned me i went from every now and then to 5-10 a min 24 / 7 right out of nowhere.
The echo showed i had a really big left ventricle and wall but this is associated with all the endurance sport i do and was otherwise structurally fine and my EF when my heart was not having a PVC was great however when it was having a PVC it was in the lower %
I have an MRI of my heart this coming week scheduled and have just returned a 48hour holter monitor to monitor how many i have a day. I have been advised that if 10% or more of my daily heart beats are PVC's that being young and healthy i should consider ablation (i have no problem with this and would prefer this to taking medication my entire life)
Symptoms since this started 2 weeks ago include
dizziness / lightheadedness when i stand, headache's and also my blood pressure has shot up.
normally / pre PVC's my BP was around 110/80..the last 2 weeks i have had readings around 135-150 / 70-80
So thats my situation (which i will update when i get holter and MRI news)
My question is can this high PVC burden i now have be responsible for the huge increase in my blood pressure, as my thinking is that if my heart is having a large amounts of "skips" that therefore means the next beat "the thud" has longer to fill with blood and is more forceful and so would cause my blood pressure to be more
The cardiologist seems to think it is white coat syndrome but honestly i am not that stressed about it so was wondering if a lot of PVC's could actually cause an increase in ambient BP due to the larger % of fuller heart beats occurring
Cheers
Well i said i would keep everyone updated
So it has been around 5 weeks since i started having pvcs from the odd one or 2 a day to 5-10 every min
after many tests EKG, Echo, stress test (never had the MRI and still waiting to hear form the doctor about my 48hour holter) my heart was shown to not have any signs of disease etc
The PVC's have slowly over the last 2 weeks continually reduced in duration / number to only being present for a few minutes after exercise
I was informed that i could have had a virus which presented sub clinically and that was the reason for it..i don't really know and neither did the PCP or 2 cardiac anesthesiologist (both of whom suggested a viral source). I am still waiting to hear back from the cardio.
I shall update again in the future when i finally get the result of my holter monitor and if / when i have an MRI done
So it has been around 5 weeks since i started having pvcs from the odd one or 2 a day to 5-10 every min
after many tests EKG, Echo, stress test (never had the MRI and still waiting to hear form the doctor about my 48hour holter) my heart was shown to not have any signs of disease etc
The PVC's have slowly over the last 2 weeks continually reduced in duration / number to only being present for a few minutes after exercise
I was informed that i could have had a virus which presented sub clinically and that was the reason for it..i don't really know and neither did the PCP or 2 cardiac anesthesiologist (both of whom suggested a viral source). I am still waiting to hear back from the cardio.
I shall update again in the future when i finally get the result of my holter monitor and if / when i have an MRI done
It is possible that your PVCs are caused or partially caused by your 'athletic heart syndrome'. Ventricular enlargement due to strenous exercise is usually associated with fibrosis (caused by oxidative stress and mechanical strech). The ventricular fibrosis increases the risk of developing PVCs (due to re-entry and possibly triggered acrivity). Furthermore, you are possibly at increased risk of developing vagal atrial fibrillation (cardiac enlargement, fibrosis and increased parasympathetic tone provide a favourable substrate for development of that arrhythmia).
You can read more about arrhythmias in endurance atheletes on the internet. There's a substantial and growing body of research that suggests that endurance sports and extreme physical activity is highly arrhythmogenic.
If you decide to get an ablation, it is better to get it done at a centre which has remote magnetic navigation, 3D Mapping and is experienced at ablating PVCs.
Good luck!
You can read more about arrhythmias in endurance atheletes on the internet. There's a substantial and growing body of research that suggests that endurance sports and extreme physical activity is highly arrhythmogenic.
If you decide to get an ablation, it is better to get it done at a centre which has remote magnetic navigation, 3D Mapping and is experienced at ablating PVCs.
Good luck!
there's no easy answers and it's a personal choice on ablation...if you find it's for you; then great go for it...good luck and hopefully you never have to come back here seeking answers or support
believe me; many think their doctors do full electrolyte panels only to find out they don't - which is why I asked and offered a suggestion to ask your doctor just to be sure
unfortunately, this forum remains here also because too many times ablations dont work, meds dont work; there are problems after ablation or symptoms return after ablation or a trial of meds are tried...
I'm positive with your cardiologist being one of the top in the country and you have all your ducks in a row already with testing etc; you won't be here very long and your procedure will work for life...
please post how it goes at least so there can be one more positive success story
believe me; many think their doctors do full electrolyte panels only to find out they don't - which is why I asked and offered a suggestion to ask your doctor just to be sure
unfortunately, this forum remains here also because too many times ablations dont work, meds dont work; there are problems after ablation or symptoms return after ablation or a trial of meds are tried...
I'm positive with your cardiologist being one of the top in the country and you have all your ducks in a row already with testing etc; you won't be here very long and your procedure will work for life...
please post how it goes at least so there can be one more positive success story
Well my cardiologist is one of the top in the country, works on Harley street in london and is the go to cardiologist for all the major private health programs here. I trust him 100%
Yep full blood work done including serum potassium etc levels...all fine
When you present with PVC/PAC's and our otherwise healthy whether it is with a cardiologist, attending doctor in an ER or at the PCP/GP...if they didn't ask for those as a basic then they must have their medical degree from the Mcdonalds school of medicine.
I have spoken to several cardiologist and they have all said "Someone your age and activity levels does not want to be on beta blockers / other drugs their entire life". I are too active and too fit esp with a current resting heart rate around 40 and on a holter monitor i hit 29 bpm (mostly in the mid 30's) while asleep. Drugs are not an option i really will look at.
Yes some people have bad experiences with Ablations..no doubt however the success stories far outweigh the bad ones. If you hang around these forums too much i feel you get a warped perspective as people come here for 2 reasons...1) It went bad or 2) they are worried/scared about doing it. Most other people have a fine experience and go on living their lives PVC/SVT free
There are people in this world who will smoke packs a day for 60yrs and never have any lung problems and there there are others who smoke for 8 years and develop lung cancer. Yes this lady with 80,000 might be fine but then there is someone with 5,000 who isn't
Yep full blood work done including serum potassium etc levels...all fine
When you present with PVC/PAC's and our otherwise healthy whether it is with a cardiologist, attending doctor in an ER or at the PCP/GP...if they didn't ask for those as a basic then they must have their medical degree from the Mcdonalds school of medicine.
I have spoken to several cardiologist and they have all said "Someone your age and activity levels does not want to be on beta blockers / other drugs their entire life". I are too active and too fit esp with a current resting heart rate around 40 and on a holter monitor i hit 29 bpm (mostly in the mid 30's) while asleep. Drugs are not an option i really will look at.
Yes some people have bad experiences with Ablations..no doubt however the success stories far outweigh the bad ones. If you hang around these forums too much i feel you get a warped perspective as people come here for 2 reasons...1) It went bad or 2) they are worried/scared about doing it. Most other people have a fine experience and go on living their lives PVC/SVT free
There are people in this world who will smoke packs a day for 60yrs and never have any lung problems and there there are others who smoke for 8 years and develop lung cancer. Yes this lady with 80,000 might be fine but then there is someone with 5,000 who isn't
ablation is not always the quick & easy answer - for some it works for others not so much and there are some here who have multiple ablations because the first one didn't work but then there are some who have ablation and have to still take meds the rest of their lives.
it may be beneficial to get a 2nd or even 3rd opinion...if you're living with arrhythmia's and they're not bothersome to you; it's ok just to live with them - I wish I had waited on mine but the dr scared me to death and said my 50,000 pvc's were going to kill me.
Had I not done my procedure and tried meds, who knows what may have happened. All I know is what happened during my procedure and the 17 doctors I've seen since can't explain why these things happen to patients.
[I have been advised that if 10% or more of my daily heart beats are PVC's that being young and healthy i should consider ablation] in my years of research daily for myself; this is the first I've heard this number; most of the doctors say that the typical threshold for pvc's to have ablation is >20% of your daily heart beats so about 20,000+ pvc's
while my 50,000 pvc's were bothersome and caused symptoms; there was a woman at my last cardiologist who had 80,000 pvc's daily who had no symptoms and was only treated with a beta blocker to help the work load of the heart.
also; I do see you got some blood work done did your dr's specifically do magnesium and potassium levels as well as a full electrolyte panel? some say they do but I've found most don't and you have to ask for that panel to be done
it may be beneficial to get a 2nd or even 3rd opinion...if you're living with arrhythmia's and they're not bothersome to you; it's ok just to live with them - I wish I had waited on mine but the dr scared me to death and said my 50,000 pvc's were going to kill me.
Had I not done my procedure and tried meds, who knows what may have happened. All I know is what happened during my procedure and the 17 doctors I've seen since can't explain why these things happen to patients.
[I have been advised that if 10% or more of my daily heart beats are PVC's that being young and healthy i should consider ablation] in my years of research daily for myself; this is the first I've heard this number; most of the doctors say that the typical threshold for pvc's to have ablation is >20% of your daily heart beats so about 20,000+ pvc's
while my 50,000 pvc's were bothersome and caused symptoms; there was a woman at my last cardiologist who had 80,000 pvc's daily who had no symptoms and was only treated with a beta blocker to help the work load of the heart.
also; I do see you got some blood work done did your dr's specifically do magnesium and potassium levels as well as a full electrolyte panel? some say they do but I've found most don't and you have to ask for that panel to be done
thyrods and blood all came back fine (platelets are just out of the range 150-450) i was at 144...so should prob follow that up in a few weeks to see if it goes back up as that seemed quite low
Don't get anxious unless in the presence of an extremely gorgeous girl but not seen one of them for quite some time ;) and not really stressed
PVC do go away during exercise which is good
Don't get anxious unless in the presence of an extremely gorgeous girl but not seen one of them for quite some time ;) and not really stressed
PVC do go away during exercise which is good
Hello.
First, if your LV dimensions are 5,2 and 3,3 (diastole and systole), I would assume your EF was above 50%. EF is not easily measured on echo, but if you assume that your left ventricle is a cube (which it isn't, but it should illustrate my point a little), your end diastolic volume would be 5,2 x 5,2 x 5,2 = 140 ml, and your end systolic volume 3,3 x 3,3 x 3,3 = 35 ml, stroke volume 105 ml and EF 75%. The "cube model" overestimates EF a bit, but I wouldn't think you had an EF of 50% though.
Anyway, with your great aerobic capacity, you can't possible have any left ventricular dysfunction, so it's not very interesting what your EF is :) Often athletes can have remarkably low EF during rest (but it sharply increases during exercise).
EF is supposed to be lower when you have a PVC (or a PAC). The heart fills less and pumps less blood.
Your blood pressure is higher now, but still fairly normal. Lots of PVCs do not increase blood pressure (rather the opposite), but the increased PVCs and increased BP may share a cause, something may be stressing your body, and this "something" should be found. Anxiety? Stress? Are your thyroids checked? Adrenaline/noradrenaline production measured?
How does the PVCs behave during exercise? If they go away during exercise, that's a good sign.
I'm not suffering from PVCs (just PACs from time to time), but family members experience just what you describe. They occur out of nothing in great numbers, and then for some reason they just go away for a long time.
First, if your LV dimensions are 5,2 and 3,3 (diastole and systole), I would assume your EF was above 50%. EF is not easily measured on echo, but if you assume that your left ventricle is a cube (which it isn't, but it should illustrate my point a little), your end diastolic volume would be 5,2 x 5,2 x 5,2 = 140 ml, and your end systolic volume 3,3 x 3,3 x 3,3 = 35 ml, stroke volume 105 ml and EF 75%. The "cube model" overestimates EF a bit, but I wouldn't think you had an EF of 50% though.
Anyway, with your great aerobic capacity, you can't possible have any left ventricular dysfunction, so it's not very interesting what your EF is :) Often athletes can have remarkably low EF during rest (but it sharply increases during exercise).
EF is supposed to be lower when you have a PVC (or a PAC). The heart fills less and pumps less blood.
Your blood pressure is higher now, but still fairly normal. Lots of PVCs do not increase blood pressure (rather the opposite), but the increased PVCs and increased BP may share a cause, something may be stressing your body, and this "something" should be found. Anxiety? Stress? Are your thyroids checked? Adrenaline/noradrenaline production measured?
How does the PVCs behave during exercise? If they go away during exercise, that's a good sign.
I'm not suffering from PVCs (just PACs from time to time), but family members experience just what you describe. They occur out of nothing in great numbers, and then for some reason they just go away for a long time.
oh and to compare my EF a few years ago was also around 50% so no big change there which is good :)
so the figures i was confused about arrived in a letter from my great cardiologist
EF around 50%
LV dimensions 5.2 and 3.3 in diastole and systole respectively. (these were down from last time but not by much so could be user error/standard error from different techs doing the reading)
I have partial RBBB, voltage criteria for left ventricle hypertrophy
moderate left ventricle hypertrophy, right heart was normal and valves pristine
all of these can be explained by the high level of sport i do so thats good :)
otherwise heart is fine
And in regards to going straight for the ablation, i am waiting another 2 weeks before i see the cardiologist (which will be around 5 weeks since it all started) to see if they deminish / get worse. My notes have also been forwarded onto an electrician to have a look as well. In regards to exercise i had not done anything for 2 weeks since i was told not to until i saw my cardiologist. He advised me to start exercising again (obv going to start off slowly).
I actually earn my living from sport so would ideally be back training asap as time not training is time on the bench so to speak lol
EF around 50%
LV dimensions 5.2 and 3.3 in diastole and systole respectively. (these were down from last time but not by much so could be user error/standard error from different techs doing the reading)
I have partial RBBB, voltage criteria for left ventricle hypertrophy
moderate left ventricle hypertrophy, right heart was normal and valves pristine
all of these can be explained by the high level of sport i do so thats good :)
otherwise heart is fine
And in regards to going straight for the ablation, i am waiting another 2 weeks before i see the cardiologist (which will be around 5 weeks since it all started) to see if they deminish / get worse. My notes have also been forwarded onto an electrician to have a look as well. In regards to exercise i had not done anything for 2 weeks since i was told not to until i saw my cardiologist. He advised me to start exercising again (obv going to start off slowly).
I actually earn my living from sport so would ideally be back training asap as time not training is time on the bench so to speak lol
I would caution you on the ablation; I have had benign PVCs since about age 18; I am now 47. I will tell you that in my situations in life, I have had periods where I have had severe PVCs (many thousands a day); I feel EVERY ONE and so I KNOW what you are going through. I can also tell you that in my own case, these "bouts" of PVCs do NOT last forever.
My longest "episode" was about six years ago when I suffered for about 8 months constantly. I defeated the PVCs by one night going to sleep for about 15 hours (my normal is 6-7.) It may sound crazy but it worked!! I occasionally get them now, but if you stay calm and don't let them take over your life, I think that is a huge key.
I think that in some cases, people will suffer through these episodes and that they can be defeated with the use of extra rest, stress reduction, etc.
You may also want to try to decrease your excercise just a little for a while
I would try to wait because ablation is not always effective and I believe in saving surgury for last.
I do take Atenolol 25mg daily and that does help;
Good luck and feel better!!!!
My longest "episode" was about six years ago when I suffered for about 8 months constantly. I defeated the PVCs by one night going to sleep for about 15 hours (my normal is 6-7.) It may sound crazy but it worked!! I occasionally get them now, but if you stay calm and don't let them take over your life, I think that is a huge key.
I think that in some cases, people will suffer through these episodes and that they can be defeated with the use of extra rest, stress reduction, etc.
You may also want to try to decrease your excercise just a little for a while
I would try to wait because ablation is not always effective and I believe in saving surgury for last.
I do take Atenolol 25mg daily and that does help;
Good luck and feel better!!!!
COMMUNITY LEADER
Thanks, we have a collective learning by sharing. This doesn't mean we can replace direct medical attention and diagnosis, but we can help each other better understand what is possible and reasonable based on experience..and sometimes by sharing what we have read here and elsewhere. This is helpful but never a substitute for medical attention.
Indeed, BP goes up and down and I believe one is considered to have high BP if there several consistent high readings.
Indeed, BP goes up and down and I believe one is considered to have high BP if there several consistent high readings.
Thanks for replying and i am happy to put my experiences down as a lot of times people come in, worried out of their pants. post once ..maybe twice and then you never hear from them again...good or bad
so will keep this updated over the next month or so (hopefully all fixed by then)
I am one of these people who feels every one of the PVC's and though annoying it aint that bad and far worse things to deal with in life. I am just trying to fix everything so i can get back to doing what i love to do. I mean just biking around a city everyday has a higher risk of death then the <1% risk from an ablation and the Dr said from the EKG it looked like my PVC is from the Right Ventricle which is supposedly easier to get to
I had an echo done about 8 yrs ago so they compared everything to that, dr said my heart is better/stronger now and the two numbers he read to me were lower this time which he said was better (i forget what the numbers were).
I do have exercise induced SVT (first occurrence about 8 yrs ago) went to have it ablated but they couldn't induce it on the day. Since then i have worked out what i can / can't do and only have maybe 3 - 5 episodes a yr which normally only last 10 seconds.
I had my BP taken at the physio (my knee decided he wanted to annoy me also this week) and they took it there and it was still high. When i have had it taken before it has been at the dr.'s and it was low. If i was anxious of doctors it would always be high in the doctors office but this is not the case. Hence my thinking a relation to a large PVC burden
so will keep this updated over the next month or so (hopefully all fixed by then)
I am one of these people who feels every one of the PVC's and though annoying it aint that bad and far worse things to deal with in life. I am just trying to fix everything so i can get back to doing what i love to do. I mean just biking around a city everyday has a higher risk of death then the <1% risk from an ablation and the Dr said from the EKG it looked like my PVC is from the Right Ventricle which is supposedly easier to get to
I had an echo done about 8 yrs ago so they compared everything to that, dr said my heart is better/stronger now and the two numbers he read to me were lower this time which he said was better (i forget what the numbers were).
I do have exercise induced SVT (first occurrence about 8 yrs ago) went to have it ablated but they couldn't induce it on the day. Since then i have worked out what i can / can't do and only have maybe 3 - 5 episodes a yr which normally only last 10 seconds.
I had my BP taken at the physio (my knee decided he wanted to annoy me also this week) and they took it there and it was still high. When i have had it taken before it has been at the dr.'s and it was low. If i was anxious of doctors it would always be high in the doctors office but this is not the case. Hence my thinking a relation to a large PVC burden
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Sound like you are on the right path and I agree ablation should be considered rather than long term drugs. From what I have read, drugs treat only the symptom, they do not cure the problem.
Some, many, of us have problems with BP readings in the doctor office, I do not. That said I frequently check my BP when I come across a public BP machine, all pharmacies including Walmart. Try frequent tests, and sit a few minutes to be sure you BP isn't affected too much by your physical activity. I believer the public BP machines are accurate. This isn't high technology.
I think you should discuss with your doctor the risks of an enlarged left ventricle, the work-horse of the heart. It may be a good idea to have an echo (or other measurement) of that condition every few years going forward to be sure it is stable. Heart enlargement is generally not a good thing, and I understand extreme athletes (tall ones especially) have more than normal heart problems, especially atrial fibrillation. I was never extreme, but I was a runner and I now suffer from AFib, not PVC. I can't say I have any experience between PVC and extreme athletics.