Aa
Can HBV be cleared, not just controlled, NOW?
Here (http://www.medhelp.org/personal_pages/user/900408) are posted pre- and post-treatment labs of some HBV patients with different levels of severity, all cured with HBsAg becoming negative!
What do you think? Are you still satisfied with the brain washing that "HBV is not curable", "Treatment can only control the replication of HBV", "There is no cure now", "Live with it", "Disease is part of life"?
Note:
1. Top lab sheet is pre-treatment; bottom lab sheet is post-treatment.
2.
HBsAg = HBsAg
抗-HBS = HBsAB
HBeAg = HBeAg
抗-HBe = HBeAB
抗-HBc = HBcAB
HBV-DNA = HBV-DNA
What do you think? Are you still satisfied with the brain washing that "HBV is not curable", "Treatment can only control the replication of HBV", "There is no cure now", "Live with it", "Disease is part of life"?
Note:
1. Top lab sheet is pre-treatment; bottom lab sheet is post-treatment.
2.
HBsAg = HBsAg
抗-HBS = HBsAB
HBeAg = HBeAg
抗-HBe = HBeAB
抗-HBc = HBcAB
HBV-DNA = HBV-DNA
i have viewed this very long post which tackles mostly regarding the debate between the eastern alternative medicine vs the conventional western medicine.
i am just at lost through the discussions; which left me asking WHAT IS THE TREATMENT this thread is talking about. Is it the phyllantus amarus?
i am just at lost through the discussions; which left me asking WHAT IS THE TREATMENT this thread is talking about. Is it the phyllantus amarus?
1. As patients, we can only hope our doctors are wise, knowledgeable, and caring. Let us hope his statements of "get me HBsAg negative" and "HBeAg(-) and HBeAb(+), the loss of DNA to UND, could potentially avoid a flare in future" are based on facts.
2. What is his reason for switching to LAM? Cost?
3. Are you still going to try Dr. Thyagarajan's treatment? If yes, it would be helpful to others to keep a detailed record of your experience.
Best wishes.
2. What is his reason for switching to LAM? Cost?
3. Are you still going to try Dr. Thyagarajan's treatment? If yes, it would be helpful to others to keep a detailed record of your experience.
Best wishes.
Before going on treatment this is one question I asked my doctor. I feel ok now and my family is not affected with me. So why can't I be monitored, instead of going on treatment.
He mentioned, I have not so high viral load and a year of treatment should get me HBsAg negative (yes he said negative). I did show him www.hepb.org guidelines and various drug results, which put the changes between 5-10%.
He said HBeAg(-) and HBeAb(+), the loss of DNA to UND, could potentially avoid a flare in future. He also mentioned given my geno type is "A" - he will monitor and switch to LAM when the DNA is going up in future. His plan was to knock of the virus count and monitor it for future. He said potentially (theoretically) I may have to be on meds, but practically I could off of it in a year.
Though it was not convincing, I took this route. I am not confident - but hopeful.
He mentioned, I have not so high viral load and a year of treatment should get me HBsAg negative (yes he said negative). I did show him www.hepb.org guidelines and various drug results, which put the changes between 5-10%.
He said HBeAg(-) and HBeAb(+), the loss of DNA to UND, could potentially avoid a flare in future. He also mentioned given my geno type is "A" - he will monitor and switch to LAM when the DNA is going up in future. His plan was to knock of the virus count and monitor it for future. He said potentially (theoretically) I may have to be on meds, but practically I could off of it in a year.
Though it was not convincing, I took this route. I am not confident - but hopeful.
"I am on Tenofavir treatment now, after 3 months will get myself tested for change in viral load etc... Then I will start this (of course need to inform my doctor). May be I will stop viral treatment and start this."
--3 months of Tenofavir needs to reduce viral load to UND to be considered effective. After that if you decide to stop Tenofavir, you need to be very careful about flares. Also if you started out with HBeAg(-) then there is no clear end point for Tenofavir. How confident are you of the ability of this treatment to continue to suppress viral load or get rid of the virus?
--3 months of Tenofavir needs to reduce viral load to UND to be considered effective. After that if you decide to stop Tenofavir, you need to be very careful about flares. Also if you started out with HBeAg(-) then there is no clear end point for Tenofavir. How confident are you of the ability of this treatment to continue to suppress viral load or get rid of the virus?
From the autobiography of Dr. Baruch Blumberg:
Plant studies
In the late 1980s another project began to dominate the research in our laboratory. Would it be possible to devise a therapy for the millions of patients with HBV including many of the approximately 375 million HBV carriers in the world? The concept of rationale design for drug discovery was (and is) in vogue at this time; it is an approach that is based on a molecular understanding of the disease process and the identification of biochemical or biophysical processes of disease at which a medication could be designed to interfere to abort or eliminate the disease. However, most drugs in use have been derived from already existing "natural" chemicals found in plants or other biological material. I decided to look for a medication in the plants that had been used in indigenous medical systems – folk medicine – to see if any of these contained constituents that were anti-viral. My colleagues and I consulted the many texts on folk uses and made a list of all the plants that had been used to treat yellow jaundice, the most obvious symptom of hepatitis. Jaundice can be the result of many diseases, for example, hemoglobinopathies, but probably the most common cause worldwide would be viral, including HBV infection. This resulted in a list of over a thousand plant species. I then sorted the list by the country where the folk medicine was used and identified plant genera that were used on three or more continents or geographic regions. This decreased the number of candidate plants and we finally chose a small weedy plant, Phyllanthus amarus for further study. Phyllanthus species were widely used in India, China, elsewhere in Asia, South and North America, Africa, and in the Pacific for the folk treatment of jaundice. It was also selected because P.S. Venkateswaran, the natural products chemist in our laboratory had known of this plant in his youth. There were also other plants on the short list with which a more limited series of studies were done.
During the next five years or so we collected many of these plants in their native habitat. This resulted in some interesting field trips. I had already engaged in many trips during our research on the distribution of polymorphic traits and in the HBV studies. But this was different. Medical field research is usually done indoors, observing patients in hospitals and populations in villages, towns, and cities. Collecting plants meant that one was outdoors, in the field, forest and jungle; and I enjoyed that very much. There were collecting trips to India (including a fascinating few days in the jungles of the Western Ghats in Karnataka), Nepal (including a long trek in the Himalayas ), England, France, Ireland, Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, and Trinidad and Tobago. There were also extensive collections in the United States ; in California, Colorado, Florida, Hawaii, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, and Washington. I usually did these trips when I was traveling for other reasons, to attend meetings or consultations, in order to minimize travel costs.
This research required the establishment of a whole new range of activities in the laboratory. We added a natural products chemist, and a botanist, and developed a series of tests to determine if the medication had any effect on the replication mechanism of HBV. There were no established laboratory animals that could be infected with HBV nor was there then an adequate tissue culture system. However, woodchucks or groundhogs, (Marmota monax) are infected with woodchuck hepatitis virus (WHV) that is very similar to HBV. Hence, we developed skills for trapping and testing woodchucks and raising them in a laboratory setting, a very complicated and difficult operation.
Professor S.P. Thyagarajan at the University of Madras, India had done a controlled clinical trail on the effectiveness of Phyllanthus amarus on the HBV levels in carriers. We helped in the testing of the serum samples from the study and the analysis of the data. This first trial showed an impressive clinical effect. However, subsequent trials in other Asian locations did not confirm the results. We continued in our efforts to isolate the active principles and several other laboratories and commercial companies worldwide have continued research on the preclinical science. Although the plant continues to be used widely in India and elsewhere it has not (at least so far) resulted in a tested and widely used proprietary medication. Research continues and there may be one day another medication to add to the treatment of HBV and other viruses.
Plant studies
In the late 1980s another project began to dominate the research in our laboratory. Would it be possible to devise a therapy for the millions of patients with HBV including many of the approximately 375 million HBV carriers in the world? The concept of rationale design for drug discovery was (and is) in vogue at this time; it is an approach that is based on a molecular understanding of the disease process and the identification of biochemical or biophysical processes of disease at which a medication could be designed to interfere to abort or eliminate the disease. However, most drugs in use have been derived from already existing "natural" chemicals found in plants or other biological material. I decided to look for a medication in the plants that had been used in indigenous medical systems – folk medicine – to see if any of these contained constituents that were anti-viral. My colleagues and I consulted the many texts on folk uses and made a list of all the plants that had been used to treat yellow jaundice, the most obvious symptom of hepatitis. Jaundice can be the result of many diseases, for example, hemoglobinopathies, but probably the most common cause worldwide would be viral, including HBV infection. This resulted in a list of over a thousand plant species. I then sorted the list by the country where the folk medicine was used and identified plant genera that were used on three or more continents or geographic regions. This decreased the number of candidate plants and we finally chose a small weedy plant, Phyllanthus amarus for further study. Phyllanthus species were widely used in India, China, elsewhere in Asia, South and North America, Africa, and in the Pacific for the folk treatment of jaundice. It was also selected because P.S. Venkateswaran, the natural products chemist in our laboratory had known of this plant in his youth. There were also other plants on the short list with which a more limited series of studies were done.
During the next five years or so we collected many of these plants in their native habitat. This resulted in some interesting field trips. I had already engaged in many trips during our research on the distribution of polymorphic traits and in the HBV studies. But this was different. Medical field research is usually done indoors, observing patients in hospitals and populations in villages, towns, and cities. Collecting plants meant that one was outdoors, in the field, forest and jungle; and I enjoyed that very much. There were collecting trips to India (including a fascinating few days in the jungles of the Western Ghats in Karnataka), Nepal (including a long trek in the Himalayas ), England, France, Ireland, Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, and Trinidad and Tobago. There were also extensive collections in the United States ; in California, Colorado, Florida, Hawaii, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, and Washington. I usually did these trips when I was traveling for other reasons, to attend meetings or consultations, in order to minimize travel costs.
This research required the establishment of a whole new range of activities in the laboratory. We added a natural products chemist, and a botanist, and developed a series of tests to determine if the medication had any effect on the replication mechanism of HBV. There were no established laboratory animals that could be infected with HBV nor was there then an adequate tissue culture system. However, woodchucks or groundhogs, (Marmota monax) are infected with woodchuck hepatitis virus (WHV) that is very similar to HBV. Hence, we developed skills for trapping and testing woodchucks and raising them in a laboratory setting, a very complicated and difficult operation.
Professor S.P. Thyagarajan at the University of Madras, India had done a controlled clinical trail on the effectiveness of Phyllanthus amarus on the HBV levels in carriers. We helped in the testing of the serum samples from the study and the analysis of the data. This first trial showed an impressive clinical effect. However, subsequent trials in other Asian locations did not confirm the results. We continued in our efforts to isolate the active principles and several other laboratories and commercial companies worldwide have continued research on the preclinical science. Although the plant continues to be used widely in India and elsewhere it has not (at least so far) resulted in a tested and widely used proprietary medication. Research continues and there may be one day another medication to add to the treatment of HBV and other viruses.
I will try to get more information on this "keezharnelli" medicine.
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/mar/18heptb.htm
I am on Tenofavir treatment now, after 3 months will get myself tested for change in viral load etc... Then I will start this (of course need to inform my doctor). May be I will stop viral treatment and start this.
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