Non sexual transmission of herpes

[Esthetician]

Anyone ever had HSV-1 of the thigh?  Not the inner thigh region, this is located on the mid front, just slightly favoring towards the inner thigh.  I haven't had a relationship in over 6 months, and it was a monogamous one and that is the only one in three years.  I am an esthetician who's most popular service is the brazilian waxing and I service men and women.  Until recently, I did not wear gloves during this service or any waxing service.  No one has even looked at my bare thigh much less touched it for 6 months.  I don't go to the tanning bed.  The only time I'm naked is in the shower, and I live alone.  So, when the examing doctor said this was an exposure to the virus I was baffled.  No one in the medical field can give me a straight answer.  I will keep on being a pest like this virus that won't go away until we get some more studies on non sexual transmission of herpes simplex.  
Esthetician

[Esthetician]

this will be my last post for good.  I found the original post with Dr. Hook and updated with new information and was told at end of reply my new questions will go uncommented.  So,,,I am working with medical professionals,,,,there are no infectious diseases specialist in my area,,,,and I trusted Dr. Hook's and your advice throughout this whole ordeal,,,,when Dr. Hook told me when the dermatologist said it was shingles that HE MUST differ,,,I trusted Dr. Hook over any doctor I've physically seen throughout this ordeal b/c of his credentials.  I have a family doctor,,,ob/gyn that I will ask any further questions I may have in the future,,,thank you for your time and patience.  You have been very helpful and informative and have helped me make some sense of this all.  I'm assuming I've had genital hsv-1,,,like you said or someone suggested,,,and just recurred,,,,only way I can make sense of it!  Anyways, again, thank you.

[Esthetician]

I'm computer illiterate,,,lol,,,;how do I do that?  Find the original post to Dr. Hook?

[gracefromHHP]

You are allowed to add updates to your posts on the doctor's site. Why not copy this to your thread from that site and see what he has to say?

grace

[Esthetician]

Hello,,,it's me again.  I need your help again.  Okay,,,I requested to have the hsv1 and hsv2 igg and igm blood test performed and got results June 11th...and hsv2 negative for both igg and igm,,,both igg and igm tested positive for hsv1,,,which the culture from the lesion that appeared on my thigh tested positive for hsv-1.  And I am aware I could have genital hsv-1 from past experience.  Now since this outbreak my thyroid is hyper...the doctors have me on beta blockers to lower my blood pressure and heart rate.  I'm experiencing every symptom of hyperthyroidism.  I am also having a genital outbreak and experiencing the first cold sore of my life and had a clear blister appear at the base of the outer index finger left hand,,,,and it's all worse and mostly happening on the left side,,,still in abdomonal pain and hip pain left side.  On prilosec,,and 500mg valtrex daily.  This hsv1 virus is spreading and became active recently,,,and within 2 months outbreak in 3 locations!  Could my thyroid be causing internal stress which could be unpreventable due to increased metabolism?  The doctor's are telling me one has nothing to do with the other....I accept I have hsv-1,,,genitally,,,on my thigh,,,,and orally.  I read that hsv-1 spreads easily and is the one most likely to spread to the brain causing encephalitis.  I fear since I can't get in to the endocrinologist until November,,,and thyroid is overactive,,,it's keeping the virus activated.  That's why I requested the valtrex daily to suppress it...any further advice,,,I trust you and the doctor's on this site,,and I was fearful to contact Dr. Hook,,could you please update him as well???  Thank you,,Esthetician

[Esthetician]

And have had a dermatologist and another doctor who said it could've been wrong,,,,,,symptoms are more like shingles.  

[waringblender]

I'm going to go with "no reason to doubt a lesion culture" for the win.

[Esthetician]

I'm not in denial.  Wouldn't you want to know what virus is attacking your ganglia,,,hsv or hzv????  And too many experts who are contradicting each other,,,,and it's driving me nuts.......have some docs saying shingles (one's a dermatologist),,,and if I was in denial I would've ran with it,,,,,I'd just simply like to know for sure,,,,wouldn't you?

[waringblender]

Sounds like you're in denial.

[Esthetician]

I think I'm going to take your advice and have the specimen recultured.  The doctors who have actually SEEN me lean towards shingles, due to all of my symptoms.  I think for me to have a piece of mind,,,I'm going to request that the specimen be recultured.

[gracefromHHP]

The culture test they sent off can tell the difference between hsv and zoster.  It detected hsv1.  Not quite sure why your provider keeps insisting it's wrong and is zoster.  

grace

[Esthetician]

can shingles be cultured?  I was told be examining doctor if the culture came back negative, it's shingles, positive, herpes.  Should there have been two tests?

[Esthetician]

I was told and just read that shingles can cause dilated pupils.  I'm just wanting to know for a simple reason,,,if HSV-1,,,I will just have to get color coordinated bandage to wrap around the area of site to not shed ;) during sex,,,,,,,(see,,,I'm finding some humor in this),,,,,if shingles I won't.  Plus,,,,I still feel so weak,,,,can't sleep,,,starting to be able to eat again and eat a whole meal!  I'm not myself at all!

[Esthetician]

What's PHN?

[auntiejessi]

Pain in the left hip, nausea on the left side - that suggests something else to me.  I don't know what, but not PHN.

Of course, lying on your left side when you have pain on it can cause nausea.  

I don't see how any of this could cause dialated pupils.  

I agree with Grace that you need an exam, and not just phone consultations.

And no worries about being snappy.  I don't even get periods anymore and get snappy some times.  ;)

Cultures have a VERY low rate of false positives, especially when they are typed.  

AJ

[gracefromHHP]

Actually the skin on the thigh is more keratinized than skin on the mucosal genitals so they do take longer to heal - especially the first one.

The culture result could be a false positive but chances are it's not.  The lab that did the culture should still have the specimen there to rerun it. It's too late now to get a new culture since your lesions have been there for 2 weeks now an dyou've been on antivirals.

I suggest going in to be seen and not doing phone consultations at this point since you aren't feeling better.

grace

[Esthetician]

I just called the prompt care to get a copy of the culture results because my family doctor from where I moved from wanted to see the results.  She also had me send a picture of the lesion, at present.  When I called the prompt care,,,I also informed the nurse of new symptoms,,,dilated pupils for the last week,,,and when lying on my left side I experience nausea and when I turn to the right side,,,it goes away.  I can't sleep due to creepy crawly sensation only on the left side.  Abdomonal pain still only left side,,,pain in the left hip.  When the nurse heard of these symptoms,,,she suggested for me to come in and put me on hold.  A doctor came on the phone,,,and while looking at my file and hearing my symptoms,,,,said he agreed with the dermatologist and thinks this is shingles (he had culture report right there before him).  He said the culture could've been a false positive.  He is faxing the culture report to my old family doctor (7 yrs and used to work for her),,,and my ob/gyn who I will see in tomorrow morning.  He said the symptoms sounded more like shingles than herpes, due to the fact they've lasted this long.  Herpes he said is healed in 2 weeks,,,it's been 15 days I'm still in pain and I can tell this virus is still active.  He also stated I may experience post herpetic neuralgia and suggested to make appt. with family doctor locally to continue pain meds.  Just wanted to let you and Dr. Hook know the updates....thank you

[gracefromHHP]

Yes that's correct - the dose of acyclovir you had was the shingles dose. That said - it was the higher dose so it still was a fine dose for hsv1.  I think probably the original doc was erring on the side of caution when he prescribed it in case your lesion culture came back as herpes zoster instead of herpes simplex  - which is never a bad assumption to go on when the lesions are in that area.  

There's really no reason for blood work when you go to the gyn actually. You already know what you have. You already know where you have it.  No reason to doubt a lesion culture that said hsv1.  I would however ask for a prescription for acyclovir ( or if you have a decent prescription plan that makes valtrex affordable ask for valtrex since it's less pills to take ) to keep on hand to start the next time you get a recurrence.  You don't even have to fill it - the paper prescription is good for 1 year after written so you can just stick it somewhere you'll know where it is and then if and when you get a recurrence - take it and get it filled to start antivirals.  The herpes handbook at www.westoverheights.com is a terrific resource that has the doses in you take for recurrenes. If you decide to stick with acyclovir - ask for the 800mg 3x/day for 2 days dose for recurrences. It's a much easier way to take the medication than trying to get in multiple pills each day for 5 days.  

The abdominal pain and such you had - my guess is that it's not related to the herpes. More of a chance that something else was making you sick which lowered your defenses which resulted in an obvious recurrence of hsv1 on your thigh.  And why a lesion on your thigh and not elsewhere? well when you are infected with hsv genitally - it "lives" in the nerve ganglia that supplies the entire what we refer to as the boxer short area - the parts of the body where a pair of regular boxers would cover ( officially known as the sacral nerve ganglia ).  You can actually have lesions anywhere from the waist down but the boxer short area are the most common.  Even though most folks have recurrences in the same general area - a good percentage of them don't and have ob's in various areas over the years. You easily could've had your initial hsv1 genital infection cause symptoms only on your cervix ( which who can see that unless you just happened to be at the gyn in stirrups for an exam on the week you had symptoms ) and then this is a recurrence and happened on the thigh area where you couldn't help but notice it.  

grace

[Esthetician]

I apologize if it seems I'm trying to be difficult, I'm just confused that if I did get it through a past sexual encounter, genitally or orally, why did the lesion only happen on my thigh and no genital lesions or cold sores?  And would this explain having pain only on the left side of my abdomen at least a week before the lesion appeared on my left thigh, and now pain only in my left hip mid-day of work?  Just wanting to know everything I can.  I have an appointment with my ob/gyn this Wednesday, do you have any suggesions on bloodwork I may want to get and when should I do the bloodwork?  You have a lot of knowledge with herpes, and I want you to know I do trust your opinion and Dr. Hook's, which is why I'm listening to you two and not strictly denying this and going on what the dermatologist said on the "looksee".  He also looked at my dosage of Zovirax and stated that the prescribing doc who first examined me (who dis say it looked like shingles) prescribed the meds as if it were shingles.  Just trying to make some since of the contraindications that's been given to me by medical professionals.

[gracefromHHP]

The thing about herpes is - yes it can live on surfaces for hours - that's not the point though.  It takes some heat and friction in order for the virus to be transmitted to someone.  The skin on the buttocks and the thigh area is too thick for the virus to easily penetrate and infect someone so just coming in contact with active virus on a surface or a hand isn't going to be enough to transmit it.  The doctor who told you that he's seen his patients get herpes from tanning beds - is just feeding into the misinformation about herpes. For some reason everyone wants to believe that herpes is this virulent infection that you can get from non-sexual means.  People would rather think they got a std from some means other than sex for some reason.  You know we go to work, the gym, out with friends and we accept that we are likely to get common illnesses like cold, flu, gi bugs etc. If we are accepting of the fact that thru casual contact ( and for some illnesses just breathing near someone who is sick with one ) is enough to contract some illnesses - why are we so reluctant to accept that we are going to swap germs with someone when we are naked and intimate with  them?  A lot of sterotyping goes on when it comes to std's I think by many of us :(  

You'll probably never figure out when and from whom you contracted hsv1 from.  Since 1 out of every 2-3 adults has hsv1 orally it could've been from anyone who's ever given you oral sex in a lifetime .  It can also be transmitted thru genital sex but the risk is lower since it sheds less from the genital area than it does the oral area.  Even if you managed to get every single sex partner you've ever had a in a lifetime tested for hsv1 - it still wouldn't clear it up since odds are most of them have had hsv1.  As I said before - you know what you have now and it shouldn't be reoccuring very often so it shouldn't be a huge issue. Since you don't work naked it's not an issue with your job or your clients.  You aren't having the type of contact with your clients in order for contracting herpes thru a non-sexual means to be an issue.  You also haven't mentioned any history of being a wrestler or other sport player where someone's lips would come in contact with your thigh area thru a non-sexual means so it's most likely you contracted it genitally thru sex at some point and this is just your first obvious recurrence  of it.

grace

[Esthetician]

I've sent you two posts and just realized I've mis-spelled your name, I apologize for that as well.  I've taken my xanax for bedtime.

[Esthetician]

It just hit me why I have been so sensitive during this week,  total duh on my part, I started my cycle today!!!!!!  And I've had pain in my left hip only every day since Tuesday.  I've worked many days (lots since March) where I haven't gotten to get to my lunch because my schedule's always packed and that hasn't helped things. And low blood sugar on top of that.  I'm trying to take better care of myself at work, which is hard for me bc I'm also bipolar ( got meds ) but in more manic mode servicing client after client for 8-10 hr days, 5 days of week.  So, last night: 1.  Didn't know PMS ( no excuse for my behavior, again, I apologize ).  2.   Anger is my survival skill ( I guess you could call it a character defect )  when there's fear I'm feeling, and confusion.  Just wanted share some personal info and let you know I apologize.

[Esthetician]

Recently I read the virus can survive on something like this for up to four hours, and that it was 6th grade science (been to so many sites I forget which one).  I used to work in a medical office as a medical esthetician, front desk, bone density, medical records, even vitals for c.c. to visit.  She, I guess you could say, took me under her wing.  Let me add that she was my personal family doctor, and I trusted her completely with no reservation with my health.  I learned a great deal with std's with literature working there and over 15 years ago things were different than today.  It's all mind blowing to me that back then if it was herpes genitally it was HSV-2, oral HSV-1.  Zoom to today where it's possible to have both HSV-1 or 2, orally or genitally.  Like the herpes gladitorum, I just learned about that. My point is there's been some advances with this subject of herpes, and some very important information now available. Which is a very good thing, viral shedding ie, will this lesion, only one I've had, and it's on my thigh-will it do any viral shedding?  

[waringblender]

There really is such a low probability of contracting herpes from a tanning bed that it's not even worth considering as a viable mode of transmission.

[Esthetician]

First let me take this opportunity to apologize if I seemed snappy in my post to antiejessie in the std forum.  I'm sure I don't have to explain why, but I am sorry.  
I forgot to mention the doctor who first examined the lesion asked me if I go to the tanning salon, as he has seen cases of herpes on the buttocks after a patient had visited the tanning salon.  Since he cultured mine I'm sure he cultured theirs.  What do you make of that?