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Respectfully Requesting Expert or DRs Opinion Re 1st Outbreak
Hi Everyone,
I have what seems to be a "case for discussion" Herpes diagnosis with varying opinions and I'm praying an expert will read this post:
From June 17-19 I visited a woman and we engaged in oral zex, but no intercourse. On the first day with her, I nicked my chin from shaving and subsequently had minor bleeding, so I had a minor, exposed abrasion. It wasn't a half an hour before we engaged in oral sex, no intercourse.
A month later I had another sexual encounter with this woman (Oral sex, no intercourse).
About three to four days after the second encounter, I broke out with a small pimple-like red spot under my left eye, a huge painful cyst / zit-looking monster right where I had nicked my chin, and another medium-sized cyst a centimeter to the right of the larger outbreak. I do not think they were zits because I could never extract the "seed" from any of them. I picked (dumb) at both of the larger ones and it and it took a good three weeks to heal. It was the worst outbreak ever! I had acne as a kid, now I'm 49. This was a monster with a younger cousin next to it.
Concurrent to the facial outbreak, I came down with awful flu symptoms for 2 1/2 weeks as well as a terrible burning sensation on the left, upper portion of my back for three weeks. I asked my daughter to check for blisters because it was so irritating, but it was nothing more than nerve irritation.
From the first day of my exposure with this woman, two months passed and I was concerned, so I went to the doctor and took an Igg blood test, which came back:
NEGATIVE for HSV1
but
POSITIVE for HSV2 with score of 4.0. Again, this test was done two month after first exposure.
Up until this point in my life and the sexual encounter with the aforementioned woman, I had been monogamous for 20 years, married, and neither my wife or I ever had any outbreaks or physical symptoms. So that's two people, 20 years, nothing even close to what I experienced after being with this second woman.
When I brought this to the attention of another forum, they told me that the huge breakout on my face had about a no chance of being HSV2. The reason was HSV2 doesn't like the face and a score of 4.0 was impossible to get after only two months. In an opinion from a person in the forum, "I was probably already carrying the virus and this abrasion / bleeding on my chin, then an outbreak, flu, and the nerve-ending burning sensation were purely coincidental with my sexual encounter with this woman. All these symptoms had nothing to do with a fresh infection of HSV2."
Practically it doesn't make sense to me, but I am not an expert.
However, MY DOCTOR said it was "highly, highly, highly circumstantial" it was a fresh infection and this woman had given it to me. But the more I read, the more I am coming to understand that many doctors are not very well informed about herpes - no disrespect intended. So, as you can imagine, I'm totally confused and anguished. I take 100% of the blame for not being up front with the new woman that we both needed to be tested before we got intimate. Stupid.
So here's the question I can't seem to get answered with authority: If I had an abrasion (bleeding) on my chin, and then a short time later had oral sex with a woman who had HSV2, is it possible / probable that I could get infected with HSV2 on my face?
In regards to the opinion that I was already carrying the virus prior to this outbreak, we're not just talking about one person, but TWO PEOPLE (my ex wife) having unprotected sex for 20 years and having zero outbreaks. Which scenario is more plausible?
I understand, a large percentage of people are asymptomatic with HSV2, but are the odds stacked against a monogamous couple having unprotected sex being asymptomatic for two decades having no outbreaks?
I need wisdom. Because if do have facial HVS2, then my chance for outbreak and shedding are reduced significantly to approximately 1% at the original point of infection (The face).
If I have genital herpes, without ever having had an outbreak "down there" in my adult life (Along with my ex wife of 20 years), I am shedding at a rate of 10%. Currently I have not had another outbreak since the first one, so it's been six-plus weeks.
I will only know for sure if I get another outbreak on my face and have it tested asap. But if I do have facial HSV2, I have read the chances are slim that will happen again.
So there you have it. I am praying for wise counsel and wisdom. I am emotionally drained because I have heard a few opinions. Perhaps someone out there will be able to assist. If you know an expert or are one, I'd be so thankful to hear from you.
Last, this has everything to do with future disclosure to a partner. I would never be silent about my condition, but I do want to be accurate and well educated.
Thanks for the help, in advance.
I have what seems to be a "case for discussion" Herpes diagnosis with varying opinions and I'm praying an expert will read this post:
From June 17-19 I visited a woman and we engaged in oral zex, but no intercourse. On the first day with her, I nicked my chin from shaving and subsequently had minor bleeding, so I had a minor, exposed abrasion. It wasn't a half an hour before we engaged in oral sex, no intercourse.
A month later I had another sexual encounter with this woman (Oral sex, no intercourse).
About three to four days after the second encounter, I broke out with a small pimple-like red spot under my left eye, a huge painful cyst / zit-looking monster right where I had nicked my chin, and another medium-sized cyst a centimeter to the right of the larger outbreak. I do not think they were zits because I could never extract the "seed" from any of them. I picked (dumb) at both of the larger ones and it and it took a good three weeks to heal. It was the worst outbreak ever! I had acne as a kid, now I'm 49. This was a monster with a younger cousin next to it.
Concurrent to the facial outbreak, I came down with awful flu symptoms for 2 1/2 weeks as well as a terrible burning sensation on the left, upper portion of my back for three weeks. I asked my daughter to check for blisters because it was so irritating, but it was nothing more than nerve irritation.
From the first day of my exposure with this woman, two months passed and I was concerned, so I went to the doctor and took an Igg blood test, which came back:
NEGATIVE for HSV1
but
POSITIVE for HSV2 with score of 4.0. Again, this test was done two month after first exposure.
Up until this point in my life and the sexual encounter with the aforementioned woman, I had been monogamous for 20 years, married, and neither my wife or I ever had any outbreaks or physical symptoms. So that's two people, 20 years, nothing even close to what I experienced after being with this second woman.
When I brought this to the attention of another forum, they told me that the huge breakout on my face had about a no chance of being HSV2. The reason was HSV2 doesn't like the face and a score of 4.0 was impossible to get after only two months. In an opinion from a person in the forum, "I was probably already carrying the virus and this abrasion / bleeding on my chin, then an outbreak, flu, and the nerve-ending burning sensation were purely coincidental with my sexual encounter with this woman. All these symptoms had nothing to do with a fresh infection of HSV2."
Practically it doesn't make sense to me, but I am not an expert.
However, MY DOCTOR said it was "highly, highly, highly circumstantial" it was a fresh infection and this woman had given it to me. But the more I read, the more I am coming to understand that many doctors are not very well informed about herpes - no disrespect intended. So, as you can imagine, I'm totally confused and anguished. I take 100% of the blame for not being up front with the new woman that we both needed to be tested before we got intimate. Stupid.
So here's the question I can't seem to get answered with authority: If I had an abrasion (bleeding) on my chin, and then a short time later had oral sex with a woman who had HSV2, is it possible / probable that I could get infected with HSV2 on my face?
In regards to the opinion that I was already carrying the virus prior to this outbreak, we're not just talking about one person, but TWO PEOPLE (my ex wife) having unprotected sex for 20 years and having zero outbreaks. Which scenario is more plausible?
I understand, a large percentage of people are asymptomatic with HSV2, but are the odds stacked against a monogamous couple having unprotected sex being asymptomatic for two decades having no outbreaks?
I need wisdom. Because if do have facial HVS2, then my chance for outbreak and shedding are reduced significantly to approximately 1% at the original point of infection (The face).
If I have genital herpes, without ever having had an outbreak "down there" in my adult life (Along with my ex wife of 20 years), I am shedding at a rate of 10%. Currently I have not had another outbreak since the first one, so it's been six-plus weeks.
I will only know for sure if I get another outbreak on my face and have it tested asap. But if I do have facial HSV2, I have read the chances are slim that will happen again.
So there you have it. I am praying for wise counsel and wisdom. I am emotionally drained because I have heard a few opinions. Perhaps someone out there will be able to assist. If you know an expert or are one, I'd be so thankful to hear from you.
Last, this has everything to do with future disclosure to a partner. I would never be silent about my condition, but I do want to be accurate and well educated.
Thanks for the help, in advance.
Johnny, let's keep in touch. The truth is it is very hard to explain things accurately in a post when it comes to how your body is feeling. You are so correct, I have read posts where people are ready to commit suicide to others who say, '"It's just a minor skin condition." Frankly, I think that statement is insensitive. The truth is anyone with this virus is contagious at some point and that is not a mentally good feeling.
Everyone is different. I had sex with one woman for 18 years, and then three years later had a three day, non intercourse, intimate gathering with a woman I thought I knew and got nailed. Deep inside I am devastated, but what's really crummy is I got an infection in a very rare place, which has a 1% of an outbreak. Shedding on the chin also is also about 1% of the time. So that makes disclosure a bit easier one would think. But for five minutes we had genital to genital contact so there was a slight chance I got infected down there as well. DUMB!
However, yet to have any outbreaks nor problems down there after two months of being diagnosed. Still working through the future disclosure conversation -- how do I explain this accurately? Here's what's so weird about HSV2 to me: If people are giving this virus to one another without even knowing, why isn't the percentage of people with HSV2 higher than approximately one in six. 80% of people are asymptomatic. You would think the number would be so much higher. I also wonder if some people shed less, or if shedding decreases as the years pass, so that's why the number is not higher. Any thoughts?
Everyone is different. I had sex with one woman for 18 years, and then three years later had a three day, non intercourse, intimate gathering with a woman I thought I knew and got nailed. Deep inside I am devastated, but what's really crummy is I got an infection in a very rare place, which has a 1% of an outbreak. Shedding on the chin also is also about 1% of the time. So that makes disclosure a bit easier one would think. But for five minutes we had genital to genital contact so there was a slight chance I got infected down there as well. DUMB!
However, yet to have any outbreaks nor problems down there after two months of being diagnosed. Still working through the future disclosure conversation -- how do I explain this accurately? Here's what's so weird about HSV2 to me: If people are giving this virus to one another without even knowing, why isn't the percentage of people with HSV2 higher than approximately one in six. 80% of people are asymptomatic. You would think the number would be so much higher. I also wonder if some people shed less, or if shedding decreases as the years pass, so that's why the number is not higher. Any thoughts?
Thanks for following up. I think sometimes the responses on here are confusing when talking about symptoms that are not herpes related. I'm amazed how unpredictable this virus is after all this time. I believe it is more frequent, last longer, and has more negative physical impact than people are aware of. A lot of times people here and docs indicate the symptoms are in your head or due to anxiety. I think people know their bodies better than they get credit for and its not in their head. Every infection seems to impact people differently as you can attest to.
I was diagnosed with HSV2 on after a bad outbreak on my chin right below lip by my original general practitioner after an Igg, who did not think my acquiring the virus was a big deal at all. In fact, when I asked him how I should disclose a facial outbreak of HSV2 he said, "It's not an issue. The chances of you having another outbreak are very slim."
I went on forums because I was uncomfortable with his answer. I wanted to educate myself in regards to having integrity with future disclosures. So I went to forums with questions and was surprisingly informed by some folks that facial HSV2 was pretty much impossible to acquire and the level of my antibodies (4.0) after two months made it pretty much implausible it was a fresh infection.
So the logical alternative answer for must have been that I or my ex carried the virus during our 20 year marriage and neither of us ever had an outbreak while we were carrying the virus? Seemed a little implausible for TWO people to have ZERO for 20 years. One person? OK. But two people who had a healthy sex life... nothing? A little more implausible. So what's the possible alternative?
Post divorce the ONLY woman I was intimate with three years later probably gave me the bug. I had all the physical symptoms a short while after my encounter with her: Achy joints, three weeks of the flu, and what felt like a "fire" of nerve pain on my back for a month. I work out a lot and knew my body wasn't right.
After I spoke to the doctor at the renowned clinic in Oregon she concurred it was a highly, highly probable I had a "fresh" HSV2 outbreak on my face because of my specific circumstances, AND the level of antibodies in my system after two months of 4.0 WERE NOT TOO HIGH to eliminate a fresh infection. Background, I had an open lesion on my chin after I cut myself shaving and then had oral sex (How dumb was that?), no intercourse. My first outbreak was pretty much in the same location as to where I was bleeding. She said they are seeing more and more people exposed to HSV2 up here and down there at the same time.
However, we both agreed that the chances of having another outbreak on my chin are very slim because the chin is a dry area - not where HSV likes to manifest itself. However, if I do get an outbreak, RUN, DON'T WALK and get it swabbed. So, six to eight weeks later I have yet to have another outbreak, so life goes on.
I hadn't dated in 23 years and it never occurred to me that someone I had spoken to over 100 hours on the phone before meeting up with her would be hiding a little secret. NO ONE IS TO BLAME BUT ME. I should have asked, but to tell you the truth she is a model and I believe she is in the "Image Protection Program" and would have been insulted if I has made the inquiry.
Last, when I confronted her about my condition, she flat out ignored me. I know everyone does not think like me, but if someone told me they had a fresh infection of HSV after being intimate with them and I thought I was clean, I would say, "What the H**ll are you talking about? Now I have to get tested because of you?"
In Sidney's gut, her silence spoke volumes. HOWEVER, NO ONE IS TO BLAME BUT ME. So now I have a new dating motto . . . "If this wonderful person you have met seems to good to be true, they probably are." That's just my motto . . . feel free to use it - no credit necessary.
Peace, strength, and a shed-less, outbreak free life to all! And to all a goodnight!
I went on forums because I was uncomfortable with his answer. I wanted to educate myself in regards to having integrity with future disclosures. So I went to forums with questions and was surprisingly informed by some folks that facial HSV2 was pretty much impossible to acquire and the level of my antibodies (4.0) after two months made it pretty much implausible it was a fresh infection.
So the logical alternative answer for must have been that I or my ex carried the virus during our 20 year marriage and neither of us ever had an outbreak while we were carrying the virus? Seemed a little implausible for TWO people to have ZERO for 20 years. One person? OK. But two people who had a healthy sex life... nothing? A little more implausible. So what's the possible alternative?
Post divorce the ONLY woman I was intimate with three years later probably gave me the bug. I had all the physical symptoms a short while after my encounter with her: Achy joints, three weeks of the flu, and what felt like a "fire" of nerve pain on my back for a month. I work out a lot and knew my body wasn't right.
After I spoke to the doctor at the renowned clinic in Oregon she concurred it was a highly, highly probable I had a "fresh" HSV2 outbreak on my face because of my specific circumstances, AND the level of antibodies in my system after two months of 4.0 WERE NOT TOO HIGH to eliminate a fresh infection. Background, I had an open lesion on my chin after I cut myself shaving and then had oral sex (How dumb was that?), no intercourse. My first outbreak was pretty much in the same location as to where I was bleeding. She said they are seeing more and more people exposed to HSV2 up here and down there at the same time.
However, we both agreed that the chances of having another outbreak on my chin are very slim because the chin is a dry area - not where HSV likes to manifest itself. However, if I do get an outbreak, RUN, DON'T WALK and get it swabbed. So, six to eight weeks later I have yet to have another outbreak, so life goes on.
I hadn't dated in 23 years and it never occurred to me that someone I had spoken to over 100 hours on the phone before meeting up with her would be hiding a little secret. NO ONE IS TO BLAME BUT ME. I should have asked, but to tell you the truth she is a model and I believe she is in the "Image Protection Program" and would have been insulted if I has made the inquiry.
Last, when I confronted her about my condition, she flat out ignored me. I know everyone does not think like me, but if someone told me they had a fresh infection of HSV after being intimate with them and I thought I was clean, I would say, "What the H**ll are you talking about? Now I have to get tested because of you?"
In Sidney's gut, her silence spoke volumes. HOWEVER, NO ONE IS TO BLAME BUT ME. So now I have a new dating motto . . . "If this wonderful person you have met seems to good to be true, they probably are." That's just my motto . . . feel free to use it - no credit necessary.
Peace, strength, and a shed-less, outbreak free life to all! And to all a goodnight!
Hi Grace, you mentioned that my outbreak was probably a staff infection. Would that be from oral sex? Question, the abrasion I had on the upper portion of my chin below lips... If that area came into contact with secretions during oral sex and she had HSV2, are you saying I could not catch virus from her that way? The outbreak occurred in pretty much same location. Also, do you find it odd that a married couple could both be asymptomatic for 20 years? I, nor my ex wife never had any outbreaks over that period of time? What's your take on that likelihood? Thank you for your time.
At this point there are two things you should do. I would follow up with your herpes blood testing in 2 months with a herpes western blot just to err on the side of caution. You've had no obvious genital symptoms and you still have a result under 5 so it's well worth ruling out a false positive hsv2 igg for you.
do your facial symptoms sound like herpes? Not really. No way to know for sure at this point unless they reoccur. Should you get any new symptoms that appear to be like your prior symptoms, be sure to be seen for a lesion culture and typing. Don't pick at anything before being seen. You can get hsv2 on the facial area though the incidence of it is rather low. As you already have read, the odds of recurrence and shedding are fairly low. Your description of your symptoms though makes it sound more like a more run of the mill stap skin infection which is fairly common.
unprotected oral sex is a risk for std's even though it's a rather low risk. Always best to only engage in protected oral sex. saves you worrying like this and protects you.
grace
do your facial symptoms sound like herpes? Not really. No way to know for sure at this point unless they reoccur. Should you get any new symptoms that appear to be like your prior symptoms, be sure to be seen for a lesion culture and typing. Don't pick at anything before being seen. You can get hsv2 on the facial area though the incidence of it is rather low. As you already have read, the odds of recurrence and shedding are fairly low. Your description of your symptoms though makes it sound more like a more run of the mill stap skin infection which is fairly common.
unprotected oral sex is a risk for std's even though it's a rather low risk. Always best to only engage in protected oral sex. saves you worrying like this and protects you.
grace
My confusion started when someone told me no way I could reach a 4.0 in two months.
Correct, had nothing by clear liquid. Regarding the blood test I did not know what was a high test score - can you clarify? I will test in two months and report back. Thank you!
All i can suggest is to have another blood test in 2 months to see of the value rises and a swab if any new face sores appear. Herpes sores are not pussed filled but clear liquid.
Also, regarding blood test results... if it was a new infection, my Igg HSV2 number will be higher the next time I test?
Thank you very much. To be clear, the major outbreak, the huge cyst was right where the nick in my chin was. There were three on my face. Two were right where the abrasion was. One very small one under left eye. So, in your opinion this was not a new given the facts as described?
Hi and welcome. The replies you were given were accurate but first you need to confirm if the facial sores are herpes and that would be from a swab, its most likey too late for the recent sores as is best within 48 hours.
But here the thing, a 4.0 could very well show up at 2 months as a recent infection as most older ones are over 5.
I dont feel this is facial herpes for one reason. Primary outbreaks occur at point of contact which would be your lips from oral sex. You say you nicked your chin but the outbreak was near your eye.
One thing you can do to shed some light is have another blood test in a couple of months and if the number goes above 5, it could be infered that, yes this is factial hsv2.
But bottom line is only the swab of a new sore would confirm facial herpes.
But here the thing, a 4.0 could very well show up at 2 months as a recent infection as most older ones are over 5.
I dont feel this is facial herpes for one reason. Primary outbreaks occur at point of contact which would be your lips from oral sex. You say you nicked your chin but the outbreak was near your eye.
One thing you can do to shed some light is have another blood test in a couple of months and if the number goes above 5, it could be infered that, yes this is factial hsv2.
But bottom line is only the swab of a new sore would confirm facial herpes.
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Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
