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DWI Deaths: Is It Murder?
I watched a segment last night on 60 Minutes and was wondering what your thoughts are on this:
http***www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/31/60minutes/main4694666.shtml
This family lost their 7-year old daughter. The mother looked down after the crash and only saw her daughter's head. It was horrific. The man was tried for murder and some thought that was wrong, claiming that it was not intentional.
What do you think?
http***www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/31/60minutes/main4694666.shtml
This family lost their 7-year old daughter. The mother looked down after the crash and only saw her daughter's head. It was horrific. The man was tried for murder and some thought that was wrong, claiming that it was not intentional.
What do you think?
I tried to pull it up and it said server not found?
How horrible. I didn't watch this show. This man may not have intentionally killed her, as in premeditated, but he did make that choice to drink and then get behind a wheel, thus endangering everyone on the road. Maybe he shouldn't be charged 1st degree murder but I think maybe manslaughter wouldn't be too much to ask for.
How horrible. I didn't watch this show. This man may not have intentionally killed her, as in premeditated, but he did make that choice to drink and then get behind a wheel, thus endangering everyone on the road. Maybe he shouldn't be charged 1st degree murder but I think maybe manslaughter wouldn't be too much to ask for.
If you drink and put your life along with everyone else's lives in your hand you are a murder when you take a life. Hope that makes since.
I lost a close cousin to a drunk driver!! It was murder flat out!
I lost a close cousin to a drunk driver!! It was murder flat out!
I have my Bachelor's in Criminal Justice, and I would have to ask what degree of murder the person is being charged with. I am at work, so I can't watch the video, but a more appropriate charge would have been manslaughter. Manslaughter is where the person did not intend to cause death or serious bodily injury, but caused the death of another through reckless negligence.
Manslaughter is "homicide without malice aforethought".....which means, the person did not set their actions in motion, with the intent to kill another person.
Although drinking and driving is illegal and reckless, it does not meet the qualifications for murder on the bases that there was no intent.
Manslaughter is "homicide without malice aforethought".....which means, the person did not set their actions in motion, with the intent to kill another person.
Although drinking and driving is illegal and reckless, it does not meet the qualifications for murder on the bases that there was no intent.
Maybe it is illegal to classify it as murder but maybe if we have stricter laws in affect for these types of things, people would think twice before they drink and drive.
This guy will probably only serve a couple of years and be back on the roads killing more people.
This guy will probably only serve a couple of years and be back on the roads killing more people.
I just read the article, and understand more of where the prosecutor is coming from. However, it is a long shot. This case may transform drunk driving laws when the driver's drinking results in a fatality. However, the laws written the way they are, he may not be convicted of murder. However, it only takes one case to change the laws, and this case may be it. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Well, I actually just read more on the case. He was convicted of 2nd degree murder, and sentenced to 18 years to life. Laws will be changing after this case....
April, replace the *** in the address above with a colon and two forward slashes, like this
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My thought is this: if a person gets drunk and starts shooting a gun in public and kills someone, should they not be tried for murder because they were drunk? Would this similarly be "homicide without malice aforethought"? After all--he likely wouldn't even remember doing it (not even picking up the gun).
I went to my mother's cousin's funeral when I was 17 and it was awful--she was killed by a drunk 17-year-old. She died in her then 5 yo daughter's lap--they couldn't get the daughter to let go of her. The daughter had a laceration across her face and is blind in one eye as a result. That really affected me.
The prosecuting attorney said that it's difficult to prosecute DWI cases--the jury sympathizes with the defendant because many people think, "That could be me facing prison." since many, if not most, people can say that at some time they have driven when they should not have driven (while under the influence).
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My thought is this: if a person gets drunk and starts shooting a gun in public and kills someone, should they not be tried for murder because they were drunk? Would this similarly be "homicide without malice aforethought"? After all--he likely wouldn't even remember doing it (not even picking up the gun).
I went to my mother's cousin's funeral when I was 17 and it was awful--she was killed by a drunk 17-year-old. She died in her then 5 yo daughter's lap--they couldn't get the daughter to let go of her. The daughter had a laceration across her face and is blind in one eye as a result. That really affected me.
The prosecuting attorney said that it's difficult to prosecute DWI cases--the jury sympathizes with the defendant because many people think, "That could be me facing prison." since many, if not most, people can say that at some time they have driven when they should not have driven (while under the influence).
I didn't even notice that! Shows you how tired I am this morning, lol. Thanks, Agiesmom, I will try again to pull up the story!
I tell you, this is why I pray every time I or my kids or anyone in my family gets behind the wheel, especially my teenagers. It's scary.
I tell you, this is why I pray every time I or my kids or anyone in my family gets behind the wheel, especially my teenagers. It's scary.
this may be hard for you to understand..but I know a family whos son left a bar after a family reunion the family had though someone had taken his car keys he was 21..drunk very very drunk..he drove down the wrong side of the high way hit a van and killed 7 of the ten peole in their including 6 children 2 who was babies incar seats...he was sentanced to 49 years with out the possibility of parole..so please if you think drunk drivers get off with a slap on the hand think again...I am not by a long shot making light of the deaths of that family it is horrific beyond words,,,those children will never grow..that family will never heal the 21 yo man is suicidal..his parents will be dead when he gets out...there are many many victims when drunk driving accidents occur...
It is murder and I am happy this case was tried and won so case law will change. There is malice of forethought if you drink and get behind the wheel, you know it is against the law, you know that the potential exists to kill someone, yet a person does it anyway armed with a deadly weapon.
My cousin was the drunk driver, she killed her brother-in-law and herself. Had she survived I would have felt the same way. She did not think of others when she got behind the wheel after drinking and smoking pot all day on the lake. Instead she got behind the wheel and ended two lives. She was my favorite cousin, she lived with us after graduating high school, she was a riot.
It is a purely selfish act and shame on those who do it. I also do not believe in plea bargains for DWI/DUIs. You should pay the price for the crime you committed and that price should be hefty.
My cousin was the drunk driver, she killed her brother-in-law and herself. Had she survived I would have felt the same way. She did not think of others when she got behind the wheel after drinking and smoking pot all day on the lake. Instead she got behind the wheel and ended two lives. She was my favorite cousin, she lived with us after graduating high school, she was a riot.
It is a purely selfish act and shame on those who do it. I also do not believe in plea bargains for DWI/DUIs. You should pay the price for the crime you committed and that price should be hefty.
if you are dumb eneough to get drunk and get behind the drivers seat of am 2000b bullett and hit and kill someone its murder
I'm with you, Andi. I know someone (I grew up with him) and he has had two DUI accidents--neither resulted in a death (thank God), but one nearly cost him his own life. He was on house arrest and had an ankle bracelet for several months, but never did any time in jail for either accident. He now has his license back. I love him, but he got off easy.
I think that when you drive a vehicle somewhere and ask for a drink (at a bar or someone's house) THAT is your choice point--that's when the decision is made to take a chance of killing some innocent person or family.
I think that when you drive a vehicle somewhere and ask for a drink (at a bar or someone's house) THAT is your choice point--that's when the decision is made to take a chance of killing some innocent person or family.
I was simply giving the legal description of the crimes. It is still manslaughter...in order to create intent, you have to have the mental capacity to a life. This person obviously did not think in advance that he wanted to kill someone when he got into the car. Its a tough subject because people get heated, but don't think about the way the legal process works, and the sorry fact of it is, this case is classic negligence, not murder.
mental capacity to take a life*
What if a person has a DUI accident and injures another person? Should that be considered attempted murder? If not, what if the injury were brain damage or paralysis or amputation?
What if a person gets drunk, blacks out, and shoots a gun in a crowded public area and kills someone. Or kills his girlfriend at home for that matter (by gun, beating, knife--whatever)? He doesn't remember doing it since he blacked out--does that mean he doesn't have the mental capacity to take a life? Should being drunk be an excuse to not be tried for murder in this case? Is it simply negligence?
I don't understand criminal law, just asking how the definitions apply to various situations.
I don't understand criminal law, just asking how the definitions apply to various situations.
But a person who chooses to drink, and then gets behind the wheel of a car, is doing so knowing that great bodily harm to him/herself or others may result.
And they choose to drive impaired, knowing the possible, even likely consequence could be taking the life of another person.
That is sometimes used to prove intent in these cases.
And they choose to drive impaired, knowing the possible, even likely consequence could be taking the life of another person.
That is sometimes used to prove intent in these cases.
It could be considered negligent homicide. Still, not murder.
Its complex. Under legal terms its technically manslaughter as the man didn't willfully intend to kill someone but I can't disagree with him being convicted for murder. I'm glad that the laws are changing but the more important thing to change is to make sure that drunk drivers don't get behind the wheel and if they do their license is suspended. I don't think its too much to ask. People are allowed to drink as much as they want but they appoint a designated driver if they do drink and need to drive. Its called responsibility and that's ever person's obligation.
But you said he was convicted of 2nd degree murder.
Perhaps they didn't understand the law?
Perhaps they didn't understand the law?
That is the main problem with jury trials...every day citizens don't understand the laws. They too get caught up in the emotional side of the case, and focus on what they feel, instead of "what is". So, should he been found guilty of 2nd degree murder? NO....But, am I glad he was? Yes. I am not heartless, and I feel for the family!!! The law can't be written to include every possible situation, so hopefully the laws can be worded to include cases like this.
Interesting article. Thng that worries me is when people are drunk enough, it seems the law doesn't matter to them anymore. There needs to be more action done on prevention as well. Our state and some bars are trying to come up with things and incentives for people to not drink and get behind the wheel, but still more needs to be done.
The prosecuting attorney on the show last night said that more often than not, the emotions are on the other side--that the jury often sympathizes with the defendant (because they each realize that THEY could be in the defendant's shoes since most of them have driven after drinking too much at some point in their lives or they know and love someone who has driven intoxicated) and, as a result, they tend to go easier on the defendant. Do you disagree with that? You think it's the opposite?
I am floored, "This is the problem with jury trials..."
Seriously?
*walks off shaking head*
The rest of us are just a bunch of dumb rednecks that don't understand how to read or possess the capacity to understand the law when placed in that position.
Had she asked for a legal interpretation this would have taken a different turn. However, the point of this was to discuss our PERSONAL feelings on this, not a professional POV.
BTW, I was trained as a paralegal with a pretty decent understanding of various laws, not just criminal. Obviously the case law on this matter is changing, I guess it is due to use dummies who don't understand how the laws work...
Seriously?
*walks off shaking head*
The rest of us are just a bunch of dumb rednecks that don't understand how to read or possess the capacity to understand the law when placed in that position.
Had she asked for a legal interpretation this would have taken a different turn. However, the point of this was to discuss our PERSONAL feelings on this, not a professional POV.
BTW, I was trained as a paralegal with a pretty decent understanding of various laws, not just criminal. Obviously the case law on this matter is changing, I guess it is due to use dummies who don't understand how the laws work...
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