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DWI Deaths: Is It Murder?
I watched a segment last night on 60 Minutes and was wondering what your thoughts are on this:
http***www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/31/60minutes/main4694666.shtml
This family lost their 7-year old daughter. The mother looked down after the crash and only saw her daughter's head. It was horrific. The man was tried for murder and some thought that was wrong, claiming that it was not intentional.
What do you think?
http***www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/31/60minutes/main4694666.shtml
This family lost their 7-year old daughter. The mother looked down after the crash and only saw her daughter's head. It was horrific. The man was tried for murder and some thought that was wrong, claiming that it was not intentional.
What do you think?
Great post.........
I never thought about eating, talking on cell phone etc as being aggravated factors...no diff than drinking.
I never thought about eating, talking on cell phone etc as being aggravated factors...no diff than drinking.
Lots of people drive, and many of them do so in an unsafe manner. They speed, they talk on their cell phone, they eat, they haven't gotten enough sleep the night before, they are going too fast for conditions, etc.
Or they are drunk.
What if someone hits and kills a chold, and it is later found they were eating pizza or talking on their cell phone. Would that be a murder? Many times, the death will be written as an accident and there will be little or no punishment.
A friend of Swampy's was killed this way. Swampy's friend was on a bicycle. It was dark and raining that night. An 84 year old man hit him. Though Swampy's friend was wearing a helmet and had all the latest safety gear, he died instantly.
The man wasn't drunk, but left the accident, he claimed later, because he wasn't sure if he had hit someone.
Charges? None. Loss of driver's license? None.
Swampy believes that we incorrectly think of alcohol as the cause of accidents. It is not, it is an aggravating factor, one more stress on the driver.
Some states have a crime called vehicular homicide that is designed to prevent serial bad drivers, be they drunk or not, from continuing to remain a safety risk.
What can be done? Putting someone in jail will never bring back the dead. The justice system should be less about revenge.
One problem is that in many parts of the country, establishments that serve alcohol are in locations where people need to drive to reach them. That is silly, they should be located within residential neighborhoods so people that want alcohol can walk to a place in the neighborhood.
Or they are drunk.
What if someone hits and kills a chold, and it is later found they were eating pizza or talking on their cell phone. Would that be a murder? Many times, the death will be written as an accident and there will be little or no punishment.
A friend of Swampy's was killed this way. Swampy's friend was on a bicycle. It was dark and raining that night. An 84 year old man hit him. Though Swampy's friend was wearing a helmet and had all the latest safety gear, he died instantly.
The man wasn't drunk, but left the accident, he claimed later, because he wasn't sure if he had hit someone.
Charges? None. Loss of driver's license? None.
Swampy believes that we incorrectly think of alcohol as the cause of accidents. It is not, it is an aggravating factor, one more stress on the driver.
Some states have a crime called vehicular homicide that is designed to prevent serial bad drivers, be they drunk or not, from continuing to remain a safety risk.
What can be done? Putting someone in jail will never bring back the dead. The justice system should be less about revenge.
One problem is that in many parts of the country, establishments that serve alcohol are in locations where people need to drive to reach them. That is silly, they should be located within residential neighborhoods so people that want alcohol can walk to a place in the neighborhood.
Yes it is!
This is a tough debate. It all depends on what side of the fence you happen to be standing on. If someone was drinking and drove and KILLED MY FAMILY, then I would say it is murder, and so would all of you, however, if it was my teenage daughter and she did the same thing I would be devastated and call it an accident, and dont ruin her life by throwing her in jail. etc... it doesnt make it right or wrong, its just wherever you are when the unfortunate happens. Thank god, this has never happened to anyone I know, however, My nephew was killed by a gun, by his friend at a party, at the age of 19, they were not drinking, they called it criminal neglient homicide, and the guy got one year in jail, was it an accident I will never know, from what we were told htey were fooling around then they got into a small argument over a girl, the guy who shot my nephew said, it was an accident, a mutual friend at the house said it was not an accident, To me and my family it was MURDER, so you see it all depends on what side of the victim fence your on
Well....this guy i worked with---he was drunk. Got in his car. Realized he was too drunk too drive....(he put his car keys in the ignition though)....he then passed out in his car....(again, keys still in ignition)......a cop came up to the car in the middle of the night......talked to my friend and my friend was totally honest about it. The cop did arrest him...BECAUSE of the keys in the ignition. Supposedly, had the keys not been, he'd have been alright. But, the keys showed intent to drive or something.....
Couple things..........For starters....i never stated that loosing your license due to drinking and driving (along with jail time, rehab, etc) IS punishment enough for drinking and driving which results in someone loosing their life. I know u dont know me....but, even if i did think that...do u think i would say that here? where...chances are....everyone on here knows someone that was killed dy a drunk driver or knows someone that knows someone that was killed by a drunk driver. that sounds so stupid. What i said was the punishment someone receives for drinking and driving IS harsh...at least the area where i live. We have a "no tolerance" and my city/township writes the MOST DUI tickets in the united states. So, for the basic crime of a dui that someone commits...where there are no accidents or deaths involved....i feel as though the punishments that are given are strict. Now, if a drunk driver KILLS someone....that is a different, completely different story...in terms of what the punishment should be. I DO think the drunk driver should go to jail. I DO think the drunk driver should loose his license FOR LIFE....and that's just the beginning......
Next issue.....................absolutely the thought of me going to jail for a DUI scares the hell out of me. No doubt.
Next issue....u said something along the lines of "before i plop my butt down next time drunk" or however you so kindly put it....well, let's see.....when i say i drank and drove ONE time and got caught...i swear on everything holy and sacred to me that that's the truth. I was SO against drinking and driving and to this day i have no idea what possessed me to do that. After i got my DUI, and i called my friends and family and told them, u should have heard the shock in their voice.....i mean, everyone KNEW i drank...alot...BUT, with my stand on drinking and driving.........nobody could believe it happened to me. I was going thru a HORRIBLE personal time during that time.....and, in a way, i feel as though a higher up did it to make me open my eyes and get my life together..........WHICH is E-X-A-C-T-L-Y what happened to me. Somebody above mentioned that statistics show the punishment of crimes doesn't deter someone from making that crime again..........and, that may be true. But, not in my case. It worked completely for me. I was so scared. I was so disappointed in myself. I felt like such a let down to my family. I felt guilty. I was ashamed. I vowed to NEVER do it again. And, i have never done it again.
Finally......................what in God's name is making u say i am bragging about it??????
I AM NOT DEBATING THE ISSUE OF IF A DUI IS A BAD THING. IT IS!!!!!!!!!! Go read my post before you make comments like that. What i am debating IS if it should be called murder vs manslaughter. THAT IS IT. I am saying that murder means with intent or malice. Drinking and driving.....would not be with malice/intenet...iunless of course the person plans on getting wasted and then killing someone they know or a stranger. However, that has never been a reported case to my knowledge.
To drink and drive is selfish. Completely irresponsible and selfish. Then, if someone kills someone as a result of it...that is horrible and pure pain. I know how it feels...my brother was killed by a drunk driver...so, please do not imply that i am not understanding, compassionate or whatever emotions u feel i should display in regards to this.
Even with my brother being killed by a dd, i am able to take the emotional part out of the scenario.....and deal strictly with facts. And the fact is....the guy that killed my brother got drunk and made a horrible horrible decision that not only affected my life and my familys but his own the rest of his life. He was at a bar, drank too much but thought he was ok.....obviously wasnt..........and my bro paid the price. However.......he did NOT plan to do it or do it with intent on hurting my brother. He just made a stupid stupid decision that he made all the time...with no consequenses but a bad a s s hangover the next day....until that one fateful night. To my knowledge, he learned his lesson too. HE lives in FL and goes around to youths and preaches the consequences of drunk driving....and, im ok with that. I know he is sorry. And i forgive him. And, now he educates people on the topic and for that i am greatful.
Sooo, please go re-read my post.......this debate was about what to classify the crime as. NOT anything else.
Next issue.....................absolutely the thought of me going to jail for a DUI scares the hell out of me. No doubt.
Next issue....u said something along the lines of "before i plop my butt down next time drunk" or however you so kindly put it....well, let's see.....when i say i drank and drove ONE time and got caught...i swear on everything holy and sacred to me that that's the truth. I was SO against drinking and driving and to this day i have no idea what possessed me to do that. After i got my DUI, and i called my friends and family and told them, u should have heard the shock in their voice.....i mean, everyone KNEW i drank...alot...BUT, with my stand on drinking and driving.........nobody could believe it happened to me. I was going thru a HORRIBLE personal time during that time.....and, in a way, i feel as though a higher up did it to make me open my eyes and get my life together..........WHICH is E-X-A-C-T-L-Y what happened to me. Somebody above mentioned that statistics show the punishment of crimes doesn't deter someone from making that crime again..........and, that may be true. But, not in my case. It worked completely for me. I was so scared. I was so disappointed in myself. I felt like such a let down to my family. I felt guilty. I was ashamed. I vowed to NEVER do it again. And, i have never done it again.
Finally......................what in God's name is making u say i am bragging about it??????
I AM NOT DEBATING THE ISSUE OF IF A DUI IS A BAD THING. IT IS!!!!!!!!!! Go read my post before you make comments like that. What i am debating IS if it should be called murder vs manslaughter. THAT IS IT. I am saying that murder means with intent or malice. Drinking and driving.....would not be with malice/intenet...iunless of course the person plans on getting wasted and then killing someone they know or a stranger. However, that has never been a reported case to my knowledge.
To drink and drive is selfish. Completely irresponsible and selfish. Then, if someone kills someone as a result of it...that is horrible and pure pain. I know how it feels...my brother was killed by a drunk driver...so, please do not imply that i am not understanding, compassionate or whatever emotions u feel i should display in regards to this.
Even with my brother being killed by a dd, i am able to take the emotional part out of the scenario.....and deal strictly with facts. And the fact is....the guy that killed my brother got drunk and made a horrible horrible decision that not only affected my life and my familys but his own the rest of his life. He was at a bar, drank too much but thought he was ok.....obviously wasnt..........and my bro paid the price. However.......he did NOT plan to do it or do it with intent on hurting my brother. He just made a stupid stupid decision that he made all the time...with no consequenses but a bad a s s hangover the next day....until that one fateful night. To my knowledge, he learned his lesson too. HE lives in FL and goes around to youths and preaches the consequences of drunk driving....and, im ok with that. I know he is sorry. And i forgive him. And, now he educates people on the topic and for that i am greatful.
Sooo, please go re-read my post.......this debate was about what to classify the crime as. NOT anything else.
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