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Vitamin D - Theories
We need a thread or two devoted to theories of how disruption of Vitamin D activity can lead to disease. I have invited others to discuss thier views in a dedicated thread, but have not been taken up on the offer. There are two main views out there regarding the very common finding of low D3 levels in people with autoimmune diseases and with MS
1) The low D3 is itself one of the triggering factors in causing disease. This may be from a genetic dispostion to poor absorption and/or possible inadequate exposure to the UV rations needed to synthesize Vitamin D in the skin.
2) The low measured D3 levels are a secondary effect of another disease process and have nothing to do with taking in or synthesizing too little Vitamin D, but rather over-activity of the most active form of Vitamin D.
The floor is open to discussion.
Quix
1) The low D3 is itself one of the triggering factors in causing disease. This may be from a genetic dispostion to poor absorption and/or possible inadequate exposure to the UV rations needed to synthesize Vitamin D in the skin.
2) The low measured D3 levels are a secondary effect of another disease process and have nothing to do with taking in or synthesizing too little Vitamin D, but rather over-activity of the most active form of Vitamin D.
The floor is open to discussion.
Quix
Hi, and your well-thought out post is welcome.
Since I began this thread I have come across good scientific data that the highest safe daily dose is quite a bit higher than you post. In a hard science review, the Linus Pauling Institute for Micronutrient Research at the Oregon Health Sciences University they give very cogent reasoning for this determination. I have since seen the same opinion elsewhere, but can't be certain that the second group was not relying on the LPI.
I myself, take 6,000 IU dialy and am inching toward a more acceptable level.
The reasoning that use of Vit D after the development of MS is "too little, too late" always made sense to me, and I have maintained that this was the case until recently. In a recent issue of Neurology Reviews in July they described a study published by the Consortium of Multiple Sclerosis Centers showing the very high doses of Vitabin D appeared to have a slowing effect on the progress of the disease.
"Among patients who received a mean of 14,000 IU/day of vitamin D3—which is more than three times the daily amount recommended by the FDA for many adults and included doses as high as 40,000 IU/day—16% had a relapse, compared with 38% of controls who had taken an average of 1,000 IU/day, reported Jodie Burton, MD, a neurologist at St. Michael’s Hospital, University of Toronto, and colleagues at the 23rd Annual Meeting of the Consortium of Multiple Sclerosis Centers (CMSC)."
You can read a little about this study at:
neurologyreviews.com/09July/C1vitaminD.html
They used large doses for most of the yearlong trial. "Dr. Burton and colleagues sought to determine whether vitamin D could have a positive impact on patients already diagnosed with MS and what a safe and effective dose would be. The randomized controlled trial included 25 patients on an escalating dose regimen of vitamin D3 and 24 control subjects who took an average of 1,000 IU/day. The dose of vitamin D was escalated for six months to 40,000 IU/day and then was de-escalated down to zero, for a mean of 14,000 IU/day, with about 70% of the year spent at 10,000 IU/day or higher. All participants also received 1,200 mg/day of calcium throughout the trial. "
It appears that the info on Vitamin D is evergrowing and I was behind the hounds for a long time.
Not offering a contradiction, just more info.
Quix
Since I began this thread I have come across good scientific data that the highest safe daily dose is quite a bit higher than you post. In a hard science review, the Linus Pauling Institute for Micronutrient Research at the Oregon Health Sciences University they give very cogent reasoning for this determination. I have since seen the same opinion elsewhere, but can't be certain that the second group was not relying on the LPI.
I myself, take 6,000 IU dialy and am inching toward a more acceptable level.
The reasoning that use of Vit D after the development of MS is "too little, too late" always made sense to me, and I have maintained that this was the case until recently. In a recent issue of Neurology Reviews in July they described a study published by the Consortium of Multiple Sclerosis Centers showing the very high doses of Vitabin D appeared to have a slowing effect on the progress of the disease.
"Among patients who received a mean of 14,000 IU/day of vitamin D3—which is more than three times the daily amount recommended by the FDA for many adults and included doses as high as 40,000 IU/day—16% had a relapse, compared with 38% of controls who had taken an average of 1,000 IU/day, reported Jodie Burton, MD, a neurologist at St. Michael’s Hospital, University of Toronto, and colleagues at the 23rd Annual Meeting of the Consortium of Multiple Sclerosis Centers (CMSC)."
You can read a little about this study at:
neurologyreviews.com/09July/C1vitaminD.html
They used large doses for most of the yearlong trial. "Dr. Burton and colleagues sought to determine whether vitamin D could have a positive impact on patients already diagnosed with MS and what a safe and effective dose would be. The randomized controlled trial included 25 patients on an escalating dose regimen of vitamin D3 and 24 control subjects who took an average of 1,000 IU/day. The dose of vitamin D was escalated for six months to 40,000 IU/day and then was de-escalated down to zero, for a mean of 14,000 IU/day, with about 70% of the year spent at 10,000 IU/day or higher. All participants also received 1,200 mg/day of calcium throughout the trial. "
It appears that the info on Vitamin D is evergrowing and I was behind the hounds for a long time.
Not offering a contradiction, just more info.
Quix
Genetic study shows direct link between vitamin D and a gene associated with MS
An MS Society funded study published today indicates that there is a link between a gene associated with MS and Vitamin D, which may have an affect on the risk of developing MS.
MS is a condition that is thought to be caused by both genetic and environmental factors. For example, certain gene variants are known to increase the risk of a person developing MS (genetic factors). In addition, people living at higher latitudes and in areas with low exposure to sunlight are more likely to develop MS (environmental factors).
A study published today shows that conditions in the environment may influence how genes behave which could in turn impact on the risk of developing MS. A research group led by Prof George Ebers and Prof Julian Knight at the Univeristy of Oxford looked at how Vitamin D in the body can affect a gene that is linked to MS, called HLA-DRB*1501.
More specifically, these scientists discovered a region of DNA near the gene HLA-DRB*1501 that responds to Vitamin D and changes the gene signal. When there is plenty of Vitamin D in the system, strength of the gene signal (gene expression) is strong. In contrast, when there are low levels of Vitamin D in the system the strength of the gene signal is weak.
In theory, a weak gene signal in the uterus before birth and during early childhood could mean that the immune system develops differently and produces the harmful T cells that cause the damage to myelin in MS. Therefore, a deficiency in Vitamin D before birth and during early childhood may increase the risk of developing MS.
Dr Doug Brown, Research Manager at the MS Society, said: “It’s important to keep in mind that MS is a very complicated condition that is caused by a combination of environmental and genetic factors that may or may not be inter-linked. This research is very interesting and it’s the first study that shows that environmental and genetic factors may be linked, but more work needs to be done to determine the relevance of this to people with MS and find out what other environmental factors may be involved.”
=======================================================
"In people with the DRB1 variant associated with MS, it seems that vitamin D may play a critical role," says co-author Dr Julian Knight. "If too little of the vitamin is available, the gene may not function properly."
Professor Ebers and colleagues believe that vitamin D deficiency in mothers or even in a previous generation may lead to altered expression of DRB1*1501 in offspring.
The authors hypothesise that this gene-environment interaction may affect the ability of the thymus, a key component of the immune system, to perform its regular tasks. The thymus produces an army of T cells, which identify invading pathogens, such as bacteria and viruses, and attack and destroy them. There are millions of different T cells, each designed to recognise a specific pathogen, but there is a risk that one type might mistakenly identify one of the body's own cells or proteins.
Ordinarily, the thymus will regulate the T cells and delete those that pose the greatest risk of attacking the body's own cells and proteins. However, the researchers believe that in people who carry the variant, a lack of vitamin D during early life might impair the ability of the thymus to delete these T cells, which then go on to attack the body, leading to a loss of myelin on the nerve fibres.
And from DR Kantor
The question may be split into several questions:
1. Does Vitamin D deficiency lead to MS?
2. Can supplementing with Vitamin D treat MS?
3. What is the correct dosage of Vitamin D?
My answers are below:
1. The data surrounding Vitamin D has a long history but it received recent press when the blood from soldiers entering the military were looked back at later and it was found that those with a low Vitamin D level were more likely to go on to be diagnosed with MS int he future.
This suggests a possible association, not necessarily a cause and effect.
Low Vitamin D levels are associated with many diagnoses, including Parkinson disease.
2. Even if a low Vitamin D level in childhood contributed to the development of MS, the question is whether supplementing it in adulthood repair the damage already done and destined to happen (because the MS has been set into motion) or would it be "too little, too late."
3. The RDA is 400 IU. Some people suggest increasing that to 800 IU to 1000 IU. Doses of 10,000 IU or greater should not be given for longer than 6 months because Vitamin D can be toxic.3000 IU is on the high side and I cannot comment on it for you because I do not know your particular situation and it sounds like you are not only trying to use Vitamin D as a treatment for MS, instead you are trying to replete your low levels. I highly recommend that you see an endocrinologist.
Oral Vitamin D reaches a physiologic steady state in approximately 2 months -- so it takes that long to be up to a good level.
An MS Society funded study published today indicates that there is a link between a gene associated with MS and Vitamin D, which may have an affect on the risk of developing MS.
MS is a condition that is thought to be caused by both genetic and environmental factors. For example, certain gene variants are known to increase the risk of a person developing MS (genetic factors). In addition, people living at higher latitudes and in areas with low exposure to sunlight are more likely to develop MS (environmental factors).
A study published today shows that conditions in the environment may influence how genes behave which could in turn impact on the risk of developing MS. A research group led by Prof George Ebers and Prof Julian Knight at the Univeristy of Oxford looked at how Vitamin D in the body can affect a gene that is linked to MS, called HLA-DRB*1501.
More specifically, these scientists discovered a region of DNA near the gene HLA-DRB*1501 that responds to Vitamin D and changes the gene signal. When there is plenty of Vitamin D in the system, strength of the gene signal (gene expression) is strong. In contrast, when there are low levels of Vitamin D in the system the strength of the gene signal is weak.
In theory, a weak gene signal in the uterus before birth and during early childhood could mean that the immune system develops differently and produces the harmful T cells that cause the damage to myelin in MS. Therefore, a deficiency in Vitamin D before birth and during early childhood may increase the risk of developing MS.
Dr Doug Brown, Research Manager at the MS Society, said: “It’s important to keep in mind that MS is a very complicated condition that is caused by a combination of environmental and genetic factors that may or may not be inter-linked. This research is very interesting and it’s the first study that shows that environmental and genetic factors may be linked, but more work needs to be done to determine the relevance of this to people with MS and find out what other environmental factors may be involved.”
=======================================================
"In people with the DRB1 variant associated with MS, it seems that vitamin D may play a critical role," says co-author Dr Julian Knight. "If too little of the vitamin is available, the gene may not function properly."
Professor Ebers and colleagues believe that vitamin D deficiency in mothers or even in a previous generation may lead to altered expression of DRB1*1501 in offspring.
The authors hypothesise that this gene-environment interaction may affect the ability of the thymus, a key component of the immune system, to perform its regular tasks. The thymus produces an army of T cells, which identify invading pathogens, such as bacteria and viruses, and attack and destroy them. There are millions of different T cells, each designed to recognise a specific pathogen, but there is a risk that one type might mistakenly identify one of the body's own cells or proteins.
Ordinarily, the thymus will regulate the T cells and delete those that pose the greatest risk of attacking the body's own cells and proteins. However, the researchers believe that in people who carry the variant, a lack of vitamin D during early life might impair the ability of the thymus to delete these T cells, which then go on to attack the body, leading to a loss of myelin on the nerve fibres.
And from DR Kantor
The question may be split into several questions:
1. Does Vitamin D deficiency lead to MS?
2. Can supplementing with Vitamin D treat MS?
3. What is the correct dosage of Vitamin D?
My answers are below:
1. The data surrounding Vitamin D has a long history but it received recent press when the blood from soldiers entering the military were looked back at later and it was found that those with a low Vitamin D level were more likely to go on to be diagnosed with MS int he future.
This suggests a possible association, not necessarily a cause and effect.
Low Vitamin D levels are associated with many diagnoses, including Parkinson disease.
2. Even if a low Vitamin D level in childhood contributed to the development of MS, the question is whether supplementing it in adulthood repair the damage already done and destined to happen (because the MS has been set into motion) or would it be "too little, too late."
3. The RDA is 400 IU. Some people suggest increasing that to 800 IU to 1000 IU. Doses of 10,000 IU or greater should not be given for longer than 6 months because Vitamin D can be toxic.3000 IU is on the high side and I cannot comment on it for you because I do not know your particular situation and it sounds like you are not only trying to use Vitamin D as a treatment for MS, instead you are trying to replete your low levels. I highly recommend that you see an endocrinologist.
Oral Vitamin D reaches a physiologic steady state in approximately 2 months -- so it takes that long to be up to a good level.
I have 3 children all have asthma. I was wondering if my low vitamin d could be the cause of this. My vitamin d is low and i suspect it has been low for quite some time. I lost all of my teeth in my early twenties. I was wondering also if i am genetically predisposed to any conditions that could cause vitamin d deficiency. Both of my parents are on vit. d supplements. My father had rickets as a child. I work outside so I do not understand why my vit. d is low and also my oldest son is now passing out like I use to. The dr.s always blamed caffeine with me but my son does not drink caffeine. His pediatrician seems to think it is just puberty. My question is could there be a genetic disordrer that would cause you not to absorb vitamin d. We both have a very high metabolism. I just do not want my children to go through the pain and suffering that i have went through. I am going to insist they check his Vitamin D levels. I also Had a cousin diagnosed with MS he passed away in his 50's was disagnosed in his thrities. They said his was due to rheumatic fever as a child. I think there is more to it though. And alot more research needs to be done on vitamin d and the effects of it.
any knowledge would be appreciated
thank you
heather
any knowledge would be appreciated
thank you
heather
I got blood work done back i July and my Vitamin D was low so the dr. put me on Vitamin D 1.25 mg softgel 1 pill once weekly for 6 weeks i took one pill and had the worst headach of my life and have not taken one sence am trying to drink lots of vit D milk and some sun and yes i do have MS and am very pale and do not tan at all even when i went to tanning bed just burnt realy good lol my vit D was 14 i think the dr. said i have no clue what that means or what is normal so any info would be helpfull
My neuro didn't even mention anything about Vitamin D to me.It look's like it is very important in helping with MS...I may have to go and get some blood tests done! Would there be a reason he hasn't mentioned it? Could some people need it more than other's?
Earlier this year I came across an article about Vit D and autoimmune diseases. Basically what it said that in the womb was the critical time for vitamin D levels to be normal. At this time the immune system was developing and lack of vit D had the greatest impact ,also through the mothers vit D levels in general, and the mothers immune system in general. I am a bit vauge on the detail and I think from memory I started getting info from the vitamin d council web site. I got the impression that in the womb and very early in life were the times that influence autoimmune rather than e.g 5 years old onwards, that low levels in later life were more of a secondary process or effect. Lately I have been ready about the natural protein diet from 'The China Study' by T. C. Cambell. He is recommending after very good reseach that animal protein my have an influence on MS, partictularly regarding cows milk feed babies. Again an early life influence on the development of the immune system, which with genetic flagging, can set one on a path of poorly developed immune system. I am trying to get a copy of his book as there is a limited amount of info on the net.
Best wishes to all, Nigel
Best wishes to all, Nigel
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