swank vs 'ms recovery diet'

[kimi1991]

Hi
I know this was posted a while ago but I am wanting to do the MS recovery diet, there is a bookk on it and my interpretation is that it is the Swank diet, but stricter.
I was wondering if someone who has done the 'ms recovery diet' could tell me their expereince as well as someone who has done the swank diet as i cannot pick which one to do.

Also, i have been getting all this gluten, yeast, dairy, egg free stuff but the products must be replace with something and i am wondering if these are bad for you ?

Thanks for your help.
Kim

[Cann1980]

Hey... I know this is an old post.. I was googling the swank diet and came across this post... I was in very emotional reading the post from Sumanadevii

And doublevision your quote is fantastic!!!
I have been in a bad place lately with my MS.. just annoyed at it and the ending part of the quote about coming to terms with the future is where I think I need to turn my direction. :)

Anyway Thanks for this old post and maybe someone else will gather some of the positive from doublevisions quote!!

[siennafsj]

My fiance was recently diagnosed with PPMS.  He was walking with either a walker or crutches, or just using walls to keep his balance.  He slept 14 hours a day, had bladder problems, and nerve pain in both legs.  That was 2 months ago, when we got back from the hospital (we live in a rural community and had to travel for an MRI, and they then admitted him) they told us he had a very agressive case, and 2 years tops he would be in a wheelchair.  He's only been showing symmptoms for less than a year.  But, what we have done is we started the MS recovery diet, and seen a naturopath who tested to see which supplements he should be taking, and talk about candida and diet.  He's improving significantly.  After having him on an extremely strict, no-nonsense diet, we noticed after 1 month that if he did eat something he was intolerant to (in his case bean sprouts, which we didn't realize at the time was a legume) he would be very symptomatic usually fairly quickly (there was only 1 other time he broke the diet, and that was gluten, and also the worst reaction) but he also bounced back within a day.  for the second trip to the naturopath, they tested the stress on his cerebrum, spine, and autoimmune indicators  again, and the stress on all went down at least 30% (70% on the spine) which was amazing.  She also recommended going on the blood type diet, which for his blood type, as we were going through the lists of things he shouldn't eat on that diet, every single one was a food he reacted to in some form before.  Now we are doing a combination of the blood type and MS recovery diet, and guess what, yesterday he was chasing his Dad (who is perfectly healthy) around the yard, and beat him in a race.  he's still a bit stumbly at times, especially when tired, but doing this is working for us.  It's a slow process, but so very worth it.  I feel lucky to have come across this information so early in his disease's course, I feel like that's why it's so fast for him right now.  And there's plenty of recipes you can make delicious snacks, I even found dairy-free, gluten-free, sugar-free, egg-free nanaimo bars!  If you look hard enough you don't have to miss out on the tasty foods we all crave now and again.    But there is hope with diet plans for MS.  we can't wait to see the Neurologist again to show him the improvement.  

[tingletingle]

My goodness! Thank you so much for sharing your struggle. I have never read anything quite like it to describe the deterioration. I am so very emotional reading your words.


Blessings
Alex

[doublevision1]

I like what writer Barbara Webster had to say about facing the uncertainty and faer of a future with MS:

"There is uncertainty in all of life; events occur over which one has no control and of which one has no warning. The uncertainty of multiple sclerosis is of a different order, however. It is both more urgent and more threatening because it emanates from a very real, ever-present cause and it cannot be ignored. There is the uncertainty of the future--what will happen to me, will I be able to walk in five years, ten years? These are not frivolous questions. It is likely that the disease will recur at some time. Then there is the more immediate uncertainty of tomorrow--will I be able to walk those ten blocks to do that errand I have planned? Uncertainty about the future will not go away, although one can learn over time to come to terms with it.

Long-term uncertainty becomes easier to accept once some accommodation with daily uncertainty has been reached, partly because it is no longer quite so easy to deny the possibilities of the future. But this does require fully integrating the facts and all the implications of the disease into one's view of self. It involves accepting the potential of physical dependency, something that was and remains very hard for me. Part of my horror came from even contemplating the possibility that I might become physically dependent on others. I had to come to terms with my fear before I could view the future--or even the present--with equanimity.

Some people say, "You may never become physically dependent, therefore don't worry about it." For me, it was necessary to reach some psychological accommodation with the possibilities so they could be put in perspective. Having achieved some degree of acceptance of what MIGHT happen to me, I can be less at the mercy of my fear."

[Sumanadevii]

Chances for it happening are very LOW.  Few today end up there but we shouldn't forget or pretend it doesn't happen to some of us.

[Hepsibah]

Your post made me very sad. I can't look that far down the road and not get depressed. Fortunately, my family has promised I will never be in a nursing home..

[heartfelt77]

  I can completely agree.  I have to say that I actually cried when reading it because it hit so close to home.

God bless.....  Continue fighting.
Misty

[Sumanadevii]

No, I personally don't think you will ever look back thinking you did EVERYTHING you could to prevent yourself from being in a wheelchair.  When and if (remember here...FEW do) it happens you will begin to wonder if you tried hard enough.  You will force your body to move day after day.  You will begin falling.  You will get the idea that now you need a walker or you will crack your head open or (like me) spend the night on the floor because you can't even crawl to a phone and your spouse is traveling.

You will then know you can walk IF someone is behind you with a wheelchair.  You will force your body to walk as many feet as you can.  You begin to mark or count each step...with each feeling like the greatest achievement in your life.  Slowly the steps become fewer and fewer.  You try harder and harder.

You begin to count the steps...two for each child...four for your husband..four for you...two for each grandchild

Soon the steps go to one for each...

Then your body may say no more.  Then you look at your spouse of 41 years and cry inside knowing you are marking the few days or weeks or months before you will have to leave him and enter a nursing facility.  You will do this because you won't want his life to stop.  You won't want your children nursing you but caring for your grandchild.

So you see, there is a warrior in each of us.  We will never think we did enough...NEVER

[cjldb]

Like Alex, I am doing the OMS diet by Professor Jelinek. It basically consists of exercise, meditation, eliminating all meat except seafood, all dairy, and most oils, especially ones that have been heated.

Now, I know that many do not believe diet is related and everyone has a right to their own opinions and I completely respect that. And I know lifestyle changes are hard especially when there is no quick evidence that your changes are working. However, I DO believe diet is related. It's not as if I blame people with MS and say your diet CAUSED your MS. I believe the way we eat as a society, the prepackaged foods we eat, the rushed lifestyle we lead that forces us to look for quick and easy foods contributes to the fact that people who are for some reason, genetically or otherwise, succeptible to MS to develop the disease. I see diet more as a catalyst than a solitary cause. But regardless, I feel that there is enough evidence to make it worthwhile to try it. The Copaxone I take may only give me a 30% reduction in relapses and will not cure my disease. Yet I spend lots of money on it and take unpleasant injections every day. This is one more thing that I can do to make myself healthier and I believe slow my MS. I owe it to my husband and children to do EVERYTHING I can do to slow this monster down. I dont want the prime of their life to consist of taking care of me. I want to be caring for my grandchildren. And if I end up in a wheelchair I will not look back and say I wish I had tried. I will say...I did everything I could but this was my journey.

Alex...The countdown is on!!! :)

[kimi1991]

Hi

I am glad to know someone is doing exactly the same diet. I am still choosing to eat fish and chicken (essentially chicken for proteins and because the diet allows this). I also eat game, especially duck, but you have to take the skin off it.
Also, with the pasta, you follow the whole gluten free thing right? Do you eat any beans? Because it says you can have some but just not the red ones... (ie kidney beans?)

That's what I think as well, no matter what , this seems tobe a more healthy diet (that what I was already eating) but I do think you need tobe cautious, especially with calcium. I didscussed this with an MS nurse. She said that would be the one to look out for considering this diet has no diary and you cannot have soya milk, rice milk is not that great for calcium even though you can get some with added calcium in it.

How long have you been doing the diet for and how did you find the begining of it, ie what sort of meals would you have? I am young myself and at Uni so it is a lot to juggle with!

Thanks so much for your help!

[Foodie123]

by the way, im only 22. I was just diagnosed with MS a couple months ago.

[Foodie123]

I'm doing the "recovering MS diet" too. I basically eat like a vegan. No meat, dairy, fast food, processed food, fried food, soda. I only eat fruits, veggies, whole grains rices and pastas, and fish. I've only had tingling, prickling sensations so far with my MS. My MS has never exceeded that so far. I'm on Copaxone too and take a bunch of vitamins. Overall, I feel better being healthy and eating right. Thanks to Alex (tingletingle) for telling me about the diet. I mean eating healthy is always a good thing, you can't argue that. No matter what, its good to do this.

[maestro1959]

In the end there is no way of knowing whether or not the diets have made a difference.  MS does to you what it wants, as it wants.  How will you be able to judge?

If nothing else, you will, undoubtedly be healthier in other ways for it.  I was diagnosed in July 2010, and I am also writing this from my recliner sitting beside my wheelchair.

Most sincerely,
Beth

[heartfelt77]

  I don't know a lot about these diets but, I can say that I have talked with my doctor about diets in general.  We also spoke on the ms diet a little bit.  He said that taking out wheat, all sugars, salt, and fats from your diet was very good.  Keeping in mind that you still enjoy the food that you eat is the key along with making sure your getting the proper vitamins that your body needs to fight ms.   He said that when you start taking away everything exspecially when we are already not able to live a funtionable lifestyle.  You can become very depressed.  We talked about how short life can really be or how it can change in a heartbeat why not live life to the fullest within means.  But, at the same time making heathly chooses.

I think we can try to slow the progression of ms but, I also believe it has a mind of its own.   I believe in eating heathly but, I also feel that living life as it was your last is also important because really u only get one shot a life.

I wasn't going to reply to this post because I don't know a lot of info on these diets but, I'm very much into protecting our body and eating heathly.  I know what we put in our mouth can have a huge effect on how we think and feel.

Just my thoughts.....   Here to eating healthy !  I really do believe this is a mind of over matter thing.  And can really help with a lot of the complication that goes along with ms.  I don't believe it can prevent you from being in a wheelchair because of the disease.  And, will not cure it in any way but, can make it better to live with.

Take care......  This post was very interesting to me.
Misty

[Hepsibah]

My neuro recommended weight watchers. He said it is an easier way to eat along the lines of the MS diet, because of it being low fat. When I mentioned this to my primary care physician, he agreed. He had actually read stuff about the connection between high cholesterol and worsening MS and agreed that following weight watcher's eating plan helps to eat a low fat diet.

[tingletingle]

Hi Sumana,

Absolutely no problem and thank you for your comments. I was really hoping that I hadn't offended you so all good. I do consider you to be a valuable part of this caring medhelp community. Communication is more than just words and sometimes confusion occurs because we can't see the intent behind what is written.

Hi Mary,

Thank you for your comments. I couldn't agree more that diet maybe one of the tools to keep us healthy - but under no circumstances should anyone give up on your dmd of choice because that would be just plain stupid.

Hello Kim,

The OMS is much stricter than Swank because it is considers more recent research that wasn't available to Swank when he started his trial in the 1940s.

Personally, I limit the amount of soy I consume either in milk or tofu forms because of the recent documented issues with the thyroid. I use predominately rice and oat milk on my morning freshly ground mix of LSA and fruit.

I believe you can eat dried fruit on Swank with the proviso that you don't eat too much.

I was THE biggest chocoholic previously but I don't find I crave chocolate anymore. My taste buds have definately changed.

So, for me I don't indulge or take a day off. I know this sounds like I'm the biggest wowser and missing out on life but truly I am so very happy to have found my balance and that I believe is the secret to living with this thing called MS.

Blessings
Alex

[Sumanadevii]

My post did say "I personally would not".  I made no mention of you nor did I intend to do so.  I find your personality to be a very kind and caring one.

Again, on these boards it is easy to upset.  We just do not have the advantage we have in rl to see a posters face and understand what exactly is being said.

The reason I would never judge another is I would not know their struggle.  I can't imagine any wishing or gently going into a wheelchair without an all out bloodly battle.  I do believe within each of us our warrior comes out with a fight we did not know we had when faced with the karma or deck of cards we have been dealt.

Now, I hope this puts to rest the judgement of me and what was meant by my post.

Sumana

[kimi1991]

HI Alex

Thank you so much for your advice. I had a look online about the Swank diet and have decided that I will stick to the ms recovery diet as I have a book on it, but also limit saturated and unsaturated fats.
Just to give you an example of what I mean when I say it is the swank diet but stricter is that I cannot have fully skimmed milk or soya milk (because soya is a 'legume') in the ms recovery diet so my only other option is rice milk.

I also wanted to ask you with the swank diet, it says to avoid sugary foods but are dried fruits ok ?
Also, if you are ever out and decide to treat yourself for example to a chocolate pudding which has cream and butter and chocolate, would you feel you get a little symptom later on ?

Thank you all so much for your comments/ advice, it is really useful!
Kim

[twopack]

I'm not real sure about either diet you mention.  I try to do everything I can to avoid inflammation since I have osteo and inflammatory arthritis to go along with MS.  There are foods and supplements that help inhibit inflammation and there are foods that promote inflammation as well.  I can't say I make the best spokeswoman for an anti-inflammatory diet but I do keep trying - especially when a return of pain renews my incentive :(

Alex, I didn't get the impression you were making any judgments or predictions about who might be in a wheelchair down the line.  Neither do I see anything suggesting you believe dietary choices can put a PwMS in a wheelchair.

I do see you as a PwMS who hopes a healthier diet will be one more tool to help you avoid living life from a wheelchair.  (After all, that makes it hard to run around on kid-free Australian holidays, eh?)  I don't see a problem with advocating for generally healthy diets as long as we don't endorse them as a sole "treatment" that excludes other legitimate therapies.

Alex, I love your grit and determination to fully engage in therapies or lifestyles that just might help you retain parts of you that MS will try to steal away.  When there is little or no risk of harm, why would you want to wait for additional proof that a good diet is good for MS?  You probably will be a step ahead of the rest of us some day.

MS organizations cannot endorse or recommend any therapy that hasn't been proven effective by measurable scientific processes.  But they would be foolish to suggest a balanced nutritious diet is anything other than healthy. Everyone I know loves at least one kind of "junk food".  None of us really believes it's good for us.

I'm betting, no matter what our individual path may be, five years hence we will all be asking if we did everything possible to treat or prevent or STOP this thing called MS.  I do think Alex that you might end up with one less doubt than the rest of us.

Bon appetit,
Mary

[tingletingle]

No judgement or offense intended Sumana...only I have late onset MS which is most likely PPMS due to the 6 relapses in 8 months. A wheelchair is a distinct probability and the folks around me at Christmas would not disagree. Only averages so we'll see.
Blessings
Alex

[Sumanadevii]

I doubt an order of french fries, a beer or a slice of cheesecake will put anyone in a wheelchair.  

I do hope your karma is good and eating salmon with quinoa and salads keep ya out of a wheelchaIr.

I personally would not be so quick to judge who will or won't be in a wheelchair...

Writing as I type from mine.

[TaliessaPink]

Actually I will trigger a relapse from just one small portion of fries. Keep doing this and it is likely I will need that wheelchair.

[tingletingle]

Hi Kim

I am very familiar with Swank diet and have chosen to follow the diet based on this by Prof George Jelinek called Overcoming Multiple Sclerosis. I am not familiar with the MS recovery diet.

The idea behind giving up dairy is that the tiny protein molecules are very similar to myelin. Now our immune systems are confused as it is so there isn't any reason to go and confuse them further.

Any improvements won't be seen for 1 - 5 years, most likely the latter.

Just to be clear - doctors, neurologists, MS society don't advocate diet as having any impact on MS progression at present. But, I will be hear in 5 years either still walking and eating salmon with Quinoa and salad or not walking and celebrating with a beer, fries and a slice of cheesecake.

Blessings
Alex