Failed Fentanyl urine test

[lipsie]

I am in shock to get results back that they said I have NOT been on my patches! How in the world could this be? I remember feeling miserable then but not totally. I dunno. Anyone PLEASE any idea? Of course they discharged me too! But I had already seeked for a new MD because they were so rude there. Meanwhile I am on Norco again from regular MD but did not get many so hope this new referal goes thru quickly. But really I WAS wearing the patches, just having problems...ahh with them staying on..but I should have had something in my system. Thanks! Sheila

[Tuckamore]

Hi Lipsie,

I am very surprised that both you and your fiancee failed urine drug screens. I'm sorry but I have no suggestions for you. Maybe someone else can come up with a reason that the both of you would fail. Could it be something in your environment or something you are both eating?

Peace, Tuck

[Mollyrae]

I am also very surprised that the both of you are having problems. With the Fentanyl and I have been on the Patch for almost a year, you cannot just stop using them. Your body reacts violently if not changed regularly. Even if it falls off occasionally, I'm sure that you would put one right back on. It takes a long time for the Fentanyl to leave the system. It has a very long 1/2 life. If you are using the Fentanyl on a regular basis and then stop abruptly only using the Norco, your body is going to react in an unpleasant way. Fentanyl is very strong and Norco cannot replace that. Strange.........

Well, I guess I don't have any answers for you at this point.

[lipsie]

I was having issues of feeling sick, increased pain, but didn't know what from. When we put them back on I used this tape that was thick medical tape...should I have not covered the patch? Maybe that's where I went wrong. Because we just got into the habit of taping them on me. But even that tape started to not work so great. I had to reapply new patches every other day, or day sometimes...at the end and that is why I called the clinic for advice and asked for a change since they were not working out, I saved the patches in a bag to show I did not use them...the used ones still showed stuff in them, plus I had some patches but they just gave me a urine test and that was the end of it all. But like you stated, even still you would think some of that patch would have been in my system, and I thought I felt some. I dunno, it just looks awful on my part now. I hope this don't not mess me and him at that for a new MD we were refereed to. And yes, Norco is NOT working so well, I can barely walk around...I am using a walker/cane depends on the moments/days and have home health aides come in to clean so no I am not doing so well like this.I have lower back pain, neuropathy, and knee problems, wounds, and I am VERY heavy..I WAS trying to walk regular but now this makes that VERY difficult. I don't expect you two to have the answer to my problem I guess. I just thought maybe someone heard of some crazy stuff like this to happen. I do have a question though. Am I allowed to get my results myself and also the information on the company they use to test? Also, should I write Mylan about this because I surely was wearing those patches and just maybe something was wrong with them? Maybe you two will know about this stuff? Thanks so much for both of your help. Sheila

[sandee1818]

I am also surprised that you and your husband both have failed your test that detect the medications your both prescibed. That is highly unusual to say the least.
As Mollyrae says the medication in the patches does not leave your body quickly. It takes time to build up in your system and also takes time to leave your system. If you stopped taking it then there should be traces of the drug in your system even after five days, with norco or short acting drugs this is not true but with the patch it is.
The only reason it would not show up in your system is either your not and did not take your medication as prescibed or their was a mistake at the office or the lab.
Mistakes at the doctors office are not that rare such as did you see the nurse put the sticker with your info on the cup ( if it was a urine screen) and did you initial it saying that was your specimen?
Mistakes at the lab are rare but they can happen.
I want to say also that if your not taking your prescibed medication and are trying to put a small amount into your test cup this will not work!  
Our intentions here in the pain management community is  to offer support to those in need of it but I will not assist in any way ,shape or form helping someone who is not doing what is required by their PM doctor.
Please do not take this the wrong way.
I am not accusing you of anything or any wrong doing but understand there are those that come here for reasons other than support and want to abuse the community to help them scam for drugs and we do not and will not participate in  that here. We will not help anyone who clearly is just out to find out any information on how to decieve their doctors.
We will certainly be here for you and help you both in any way we can all we ask is to be honest and upfront with us.
I do hope you both will find the help you need and let us know if we can help in any way. Like I said we really do want to help anyone who needs and and we will do everything we can to offer the support and information just be honest with us:)

[sandee1818]

Hi,
Let me say I apoligize if I upset you in any way with my above post. Like I said we do get those that are NOT honest with us and that does make us leery sometimes.
You can call the company who makes your patch and get the 3m covers that hold the patch on, they are specially designed for this.
When you had your test done what exactly happened? Did you receive a labeled cup with your name on it or did you use the cup and then have the label put on? I am assuming you took the urine screen?
Anytime you have these types of test done you need to have the cup labeled with your name and info and then initial the slip saying that yes this is your specimen when the nurse receives it from you.
You can certainly request a copy of the test results from your doctor.
How long has it been? have your PCP order another test right away!

[ChronicPain1]

That's very odd, it should have appeared. Did they actually test specifically for Fentanyl? When I had my medication changed my test only tested for Opiates in general, not anything specific. Specialized tests are rare, and the home drug tests you can buy don't even get that specific.

[lipsie]

Thank you for your response though I was upset at first because I am dead serious that I did NOT abuse this medication! But on the other hand I am sure you do get quite a lot of people here that do and are looking for ways around things and I can understand your question of my truth.
Regardless, I won't keep bothering people here about it anymore but if I do find out anything I will let you know. Just one last thing and to answer your question no, I did not sign my container nor see what the nurse even did with it. Now I know to be more careful in the future. But one thing I though about...I was using this very thick wound tape (I have wounds) covering the patch and wondered IF that could have blocked to patch from even working, but how I got through without realizing it I don't know. Oh well...I am going to follow thru with records and what have you...and yes see if they will do another test right away, though they discharged me already so I doubt that one. But I am not one to stop when I am basically called a liar like this clinic did so I am going to do whatever I have to figure this one out. Thank you for your help though and I will still be around. Sheila

[Mollyrae]

Sheila:

You say:

" I had to reapply new patches every other day, or day sometimes...at the end and that is why I called the clinic for advice and asked for a change since they were not working out".....

The Patches are NOT designed to be changed every day. If you were putting that much into your system, you would have had TOO much in the blood stream and it would have showed to be excessive in your urine.

The Doctor who prescribed the patch must have told you how to use them? I am shocked to hear that you would have so many questions regarding the use of the Patches. Also, there is a great deal of information that comes with each box of 5. Have you read any of it?

Again, this all doesn't make sense to me. Of all opiates, Fentanyl is one of the meds that stays in your system for a length of time. I'm sure that writing to Mylan will not help you. They stand by there product as do I. I have never..ever had a problem with them.

In regards to the tape, It states in the instructions NOT top cover the patch completely. You may use PAPER tape because it lets the patch breath but that is all. The instructions will tell you this. Covering the patch with thick adhesive will make the medicine pour into your blood stream by letting it get too warm because your skin cannot breath. Only paper tape........

Molly

[sandee1818]

The pain clinic will not retest but you can ask your regular doctor to do a retest for your records:)

[BubbaJohn]

I am a chronic pain sufferer who has been on 50 mg fentanyl patch for about 3 years.  I never miss a day without my patches, and I cover them with heavy duty bandages.  Depending on the patch I normally need three bandages to cover it properly.  I recently talked my VA Health care clinic to provide me with patches and that saved me a bunch of money on my my wife's health care.  Well the first thing they did was drug test me.  The even tested me before I started using the patches used by the VA and guess what.  I failed the test.  I tested positive for opiates  but I figured that was the hydrocodon I use as a break through drug.  Which I use about one pill per day to sleep.
I have tried to get the VA to retest me and they refuse, I have even gone to the patient advocate and he was not able to do me any good.  
I also have a heart condition and use a bunch of diuretics which a druggist has told me could cause for a false reading as could several of the other medications I take for several other medical issues.  I was very lucky that me previous pain doctor was open minded and trusted me enough to know I was using the drugs as prescribed. So I still can get my drugs and don't have to worry about going through a painful detoxification.  
I am wondering if there is anyone on this list who might offer suggestions on how to prove to the VA that I was taking the taking the drugs as prescribed and that I am not abusing my drugs.  I don't like being called a lair.  Whats next are they going to say I am not using my insulin properly because my blood sugar levels keep going up even though I am eating right and and taking all of my medications correctly.    I need your help...

Bubba John

[sdreilly06]

Hi there,
The lab should still have the urine.  You coul ask them to retest it and tell them you will pay for it.  I am not really sure what it is you are saying the problem was.  If something was not in your system that should have been ask them what your creatine level was.  I know a bit about drug testing as for about 2 years I was in charge of drug testing and learned alot.  Let me know if i am not understanding your question and I will help you more.
Shannon
***@****

[Jaybay]

You said you saved the patches some "still have stuff in them."  Then you said you might write the manufacturer, Mylan, about the failed test.  The Mylan patches do not have gel in them.

[JadedSweetheart]

One of our medhelpers around here has written a very interesting journal about the inaccuracy of drug testing and which test to ask for if you get a false negative on your UA.  I thought it was Sandee?  Maybe not.  
It was a good journal entry, though and I'm sure it couldn't be used for drug seekers as it is simply asking for them to send the original urine to the lab for a more comprehensive test.

[BubbaJohn]

Since I have taken the test I have been treated like a leper.  But I did find out today that the doctor who has done the damage is leaving the VA today.or tomorrow. Don't know if this will change me situation or not.  I didn't even know I was being tested for drugs.  that is sort of typical  with the VA.   I also had a very difficult peeing.  The test was a fasting test and since I had not taken my zaroxlyn, lasexx or sprinalactone.  So I really wans't working, but I had been up three times the night before emptying my bladder.  I didn't leave much in the way of a sample.  The did tell me that I tested positive for opiates but that makes sense, I take hydrocodon 7.5 as an overflow drug.  I was wrong about the name of my patch.  I was taking azctavis brand Fentanyl transdermal System 50 mcg/h  patches...  If you are not familiar with these, patched, they are relatively large and take 3 big waterproof bandages to cover them.  Now one thing really bothers me.  Either my patches are not doing much of a job and I should shift to morephine which has been suggested, or this doctor can't read English s should be deported back to where ever he comes from somewhere in southern west Virginia;  Hope you can help..  Nice talking to you...

[sandee1818]

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/97621/False-negative-urine-test?personal_page_id=863283

This includes a study done by the Va about test results not being reliable.
I will write more tomorrow I have been cleaning and I am hurting really bad this evening.

[Jaybay]

Did anyone at the clinic ever actually look to see that you had on a patch when the test was performed?  That should be something in your favor at least.  Most pain clinics only perform a general opiate survey unless the doctor suspects a problem.  It's pretty expensive to run a test that identifies individual drugs, and if so that's usually a blood test rather than a urine test.  I understand that fentanyl is particularly expensive to identify.

There is nothing wrong with using surgical tape or any kind of bandage to keep the patch in place.  It does not affect absorbtion rates.  Even so, some people never can find a way to keep a patch in place or end up allergic to the adhesive and have to discontinue its use.  It sounds like the patch just isn't going to work for you.

Your symptoms of feeling ill and having increased pain are probably due to detoxing from the fentanyl.  The norco is keeping you from being in full blown withdrawal.  Suddenly discontinuing any opiate medication will result in noticeably increased pain for a while depending on how long the opiate was used and how strong it was.  It's impossible to assess how much of that pain is due to your original condition and how much is due to opiate receptors in the brain screaming for relief.  It WILL get better in either a few days or a few weeks - depending.

Some doctors and clinics run a very tight ship and follow a zero tolerance policy.  It's unfortunate, but true.  Being put under a microscope and rendered physically dependent on the meds are  the tradeoffs to the benefits of opiate therapy.  I do hope you can find relief one way or another, but it's apparent that the patch isn't a good choice for you.

[billlee459]

I had an experience like yours at the VA in Berea, Ky.  The doctor was an a**hole.  I was on tramadol athe the VA in Huntsville, Al for DDD and ruptured disc.  I moved to Kentucky and the jerk VA doctor won't give me tramadol which I had been taking for years.  He put me on morphine suffate 30mg.  I didn't want the morphine and I was told by the pinhead "it's the morphine or nothing".  I was sick for over a year, vomiting, nasusa, etc.  I went to the patients advocate three times to get off the morphine, nothing was done.  The doctor in Berea, Bennett, told me he could fix it so I would never get another pain pill from the VA.  I filed a complaint with the VA in Washington D.C. against Bennett.  I was assigned another doctor at the same clinic where Bennett was the head man.  I was made to take a urine test the first visit.  The sample set for nine days before it was tested in Lexington VA.  Bennett doctored my sample with fentanyl.  I had a blood test the same day, no fentanyl.  The VA will not treat me for pain anymore.  The VA wouldn't take another drug test.  I went to a pain management doctor outside the VA and he treats me with respect and for my pain.

[Tuckamore]

Hi Billlie,

I don't believe Bubbajohn still an active member of our Forum.

If you would begin a new post (Question) you will obtain more responses. You are welcome here and I encourage you to post again. I'll look forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards,
~Tuck

[Jmmee]

If she wasn't using them properly would she come here and tell you all? She called the clinic because she was having problems with the patches. The clinic didn't call her. She brought her patches in used and unused. The responses she got were like she was guilty. My goodness!!! Judge and be judged!!! Ridiculous!! What gives any of you the right to judge her? Or talk to her the way you did.

She said she was heavy and had wounds from being heavy along with back and knee problems.

I'm just amazed at the responses she got. So many factors could have caused problems with her patches.

I take diflucan and it causes more fentanyl to be in my system. You would have told me I was abusing it and that's why I have so much in my system.


To tge original poster

Are you on a new pain regiment?

[zef4hill]

if they tested 4 opiates fentanal will not show up i had tests done once a week for probation for a year and it never showed up in urine test once

[dmt1961]

Here is some surprising info. The urine test the Veterans Admin uses to "test" people for the Fentanyl Patch use... it does not test for the drug. It is a dummy test. They expect you to pop negative results for Opioids. Since Fentanyl is a synthetic derivative it will not test sensitive to the test. They would have to run a more expensive Immuno Assay test (Spelling?). They do the test to make sure you are not taking another prescription drug not prescribed by their doctors.....test for compliance. I know this info because I called the Manufacturing Company Mallinckrodt after I was informed by my PC that I Popped twice negative for the Fentanyl Patch. Needless to say I was upset because I am wearing the patch religiously. That's when I called the Company and did research myself.  As for the man who was refused pain management due to the test results being negative..... MY EMAIL IS dawn_thomas***@**** if you wish to talk to me.

[dmt1961]

Here is some surprising info. The urine test the Veterans Admin uses to "test people for the Fentanyl Patch use, does not test for the drug. It is a dummy test. They expect you to pop negative results for Opiods. Since Fentanyl is a synthetic derivative it will not test sensitive to the test. They would have to run a more expensive Immuno Assay test (Spelling?). They do the test to make sure you are not taking another prescription drug not prescribed by their doctors.....test for compliance. I know this info because I called the Manufacturing Company Mallinckrodt after I was informed by my PC that Pop twice negative for the Fentanyl Patch. Needless to say I was upset because I am wearing the patch religiously. That's when I called the Company and did research myself.  Asa for the man who was refused pain management due to the test results being negative..... MY EMAIL IS dawn_thomas***@**** if you wish to talk to me.

[dmt1961]

Please see my post.

[dmt1961]

I am so sorry to hear you went through the same confusing horrible feelings I had went my PCP told me I popped negative twice for opioids when they were testing for my Fentanyl Patches. I was a Nurse Corp Officer for 10 years in the Navy. My integrity is very important to me. I wear the patches for chronic moderate to severe pain religiously. I then decided to do some research about how the VA tests for the Fentanyl in my system. They use a urine test. The shock came when I called the Manufacturing Company and learned that the basic urine test is not sensitive for Fentanyl. They expect the results to be negative for Opioids. Then the question begs why did my PCP of twenty years at the VA not know that. Why the scare to me? It does make trust difficult.