Aa
To circumcise?
I'm having a baby boy in June and I'm already finding it very difficult to make the decision to circumcise him. =/ The paper I got from my Dr. said that the benefits and the risks are both too small to swing the vote either way, that the decision is a parental one NOT a medical one. I just don't want to put him through any sort of agonizing pain, what is everyone's take on this? Did you have your son circumcised and do you know how he reacted to it?
Awesome, Ivy, thanks! Since I don't have a son I will be honest and say I haven't done a whole lot searching on this subject. I do know that my husband is adamant that any sons we do have will be circumcised and I'm in agreement with him. I'll check out those sites, especially as WHO is a group that I highly respect.
Actually Joy when you said earlier that you couldn't find medical research to back up circumcision, I wanted to share the CDC and WHO information Fact sheets on male circumcision:
CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm
(it's interesting, if you scroll down, they say that many men who are circumcised as adults say that, rather than experiencing a decrease in sexual sensation, they either experience no change or an improvement...just thought I'd point that out, because i've heard that argument many times.)
WHO
http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/index.html
I just thought I'd post some medical sites (trusted ones) that provide some case studies instead of generalizations. It really is a personal choice. I don't think poorly of women who do not circumcise their children, but I get really mad when someone calls me cruel for circumcising my son. It's just not your place to judge, just like I don't judge you! Thanks Audrey and Joy for sharing the religious information about circumcision...I, too, am religious and consider that to be an important part of why I made my decision, however I have absolutely no problem with anyone who chooses not to. It's such a personal and BIG decision. I don't live your life, so I can't make your decisions OR judge them...but neither can you do the same to me. And just wanted to say...no matter how flowery you make an insult or a stab, it's still an insult. Hedging words doesn't many something any less hurtful than if you came out and said it. Just food for thought :-).
CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm
(it's interesting, if you scroll down, they say that many men who are circumcised as adults say that, rather than experiencing a decrease in sexual sensation, they either experience no change or an improvement...just thought I'd point that out, because i've heard that argument many times.)
WHO
http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/index.html
I just thought I'd post some medical sites (trusted ones) that provide some case studies instead of generalizations. It really is a personal choice. I don't think poorly of women who do not circumcise their children, but I get really mad when someone calls me cruel for circumcising my son. It's just not your place to judge, just like I don't judge you! Thanks Audrey and Joy for sharing the religious information about circumcision...I, too, am religious and consider that to be an important part of why I made my decision, however I have absolutely no problem with anyone who chooses not to. It's such a personal and BIG decision. I don't live your life, so I can't make your decisions OR judge them...but neither can you do the same to me. And just wanted to say...no matter how flowery you make an insult or a stab, it's still an insult. Hedging words doesn't many something any less hurtful than if you came out and said it. Just food for thought :-).
Yes, AHP84, and I agree that NO ONE should ever feel guilty or made to feel horrible whether they choose to do it or not. I'm kind of getting the impression from a few comments (not yours), while no one is outright attacking one another, that judgments are pretty intense in the issue of whether to circumcise or not. We must remember to respect all choices. Christians can circumcise or not; I don't think of them as any less of a believer whatsoever if they don't.
Thank you for sharing those verses and helping me cover all points from a religious viewpoint. I have heard many people also relate the same based on the NT. Sometimes I get so focused on ONE thing that I forget to share the other parts as well.
Thank you for sharing those verses and helping me cover all points from a religious viewpoint. I have heard many people also relate the same based on the NT. Sometimes I get so focused on ONE thing that I forget to share the other parts as well.
I agree with you from a Christian perspective, Joy--that's part of the reason I also chose to circumcise my sons. But I think it's extremely important to point out that the issue of circumcision goes beyond the Old Testament, and is no longer required of anyone who calls themself a Christian in the New Testament. It's important that people don't think they're less of a Christian if they don't circumcise their sons.
A couple verses, just for verification:
Romans 2:28-29
A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
Acts 11:1-18
1 The apostles and the believers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. 2 So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcised believers criticized him 3 and said, “You went into the house of uncircumcised men and ate with them.”
4 Starting from the beginning, Peter told them the whole story: 5 “I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision. I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to where I was. 6 I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles and birds. 7 Then I heard a voice telling me, ‘Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.’
8 “I replied, ‘Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’
9 “The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’ 10 This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again.
11 “Right then three men who had been sent to me from Caesarea stopped at the house where I was staying. 12 The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them. These six brothers also went with me, and we entered the man’s house. 13 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. 14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with[a] water, but you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.’ 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
It seems to me the way Christians are now "set apart" is no longer by circumcision, but by baptism. Circumcision is just a religious tradition now--one that I have decided to keep with my sons as a personal choice along with being convinced that it's the healthiest option.
I just wanted to make sure that no one feels offended of being less of a Christian because they choose not to circumcise their son if they are a Christian.
A couple verses, just for verification:
Romans 2:28-29
A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
Acts 11:1-18
1 The apostles and the believers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. 2 So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcised believers criticized him 3 and said, “You went into the house of uncircumcised men and ate with them.”
4 Starting from the beginning, Peter told them the whole story: 5 “I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision. I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to where I was. 6 I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles and birds. 7 Then I heard a voice telling me, ‘Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.’
8 “I replied, ‘Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’
9 “The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’ 10 This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again.
11 “Right then three men who had been sent to me from Caesarea stopped at the house where I was staying. 12 The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them. These six brothers also went with me, and we entered the man’s house. 13 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. 14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with[a] water, but you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.’ 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
It seems to me the way Christians are now "set apart" is no longer by circumcision, but by baptism. Circumcision is just a religious tradition now--one that I have decided to keep with my sons as a personal choice along with being convinced that it's the healthiest option.
I just wanted to make sure that no one feels offended of being less of a Christian because they choose not to circumcise their son if they are a Christian.
This is a good discussion and it's okay for everyone to have differing opinions but no attacking. Some people will circumcise and some will not. It is all a personal choice.
From a religious viewpoint (which I did not mention above), in case anyone wonders, God calls His men to be set apart from non-believers and be circumcised. It is considered unclean to have foreskin. So when people say, "God gave them a foreskin for a reason" I chuckle because the reason is to have it removed so that all men would know who was a follower of God and who was a Gentile (not a follower of God). Also, Jesus was a Jew and Jewish custom is to be circumcised a few days after birth so if you're wondering if He, the Son of God, was circumcised the answer is yes based on the fact He was Jewish. Jews followed their customs very strictly, especially regarding their babies and especially their sons.
Obviously not everyone is religious but since the discussion is still going I thought I'd throw that out there if you are a Christian or Jewish or whatever and wondering about that aspect of it. And if you're not religious that's okay, too. It's okay to disagree.
From a religious viewpoint (which I did not mention above), in case anyone wonders, God calls His men to be set apart from non-believers and be circumcised. It is considered unclean to have foreskin. So when people say, "God gave them a foreskin for a reason" I chuckle because the reason is to have it removed so that all men would know who was a follower of God and who was a Gentile (not a follower of God). Also, Jesus was a Jew and Jewish custom is to be circumcised a few days after birth so if you're wondering if He, the Son of God, was circumcised the answer is yes based on the fact He was Jewish. Jews followed their customs very strictly, especially regarding their babies and especially their sons.
Obviously not everyone is religious but since the discussion is still going I thought I'd throw that out there if you are a Christian or Jewish or whatever and wondering about that aspect of it. And if you're not religious that's okay, too. It's okay to disagree.
Purposes of the fore skin
Protection
Just as the eyelid protects the eye, the foreskin protects the glans, keeping its surface soft, moist, warm and sensitive. It also maintains optimal warmth, pH balance, and cleanliness. The glans itself contains no sebaceous glands – glands that produce the moisturizing oil that our skin needs to stay healthy.(2) The foreskin produces the moisturizer that keeps the surface of the glans glistening, smooth, soft, and a deep healthy red or purple color.
The foreskin will protect the entire penis when accidents happen, such as contusions, abrasions, lacerations, and burns. The foreskin is the first layer – a double layer – of defense from injury to the rest of the penis.
Self-Cleansing Function
The intact penis is naturally clean. The common view of the penis or the foreskin as ‘dirty’ is unscientific and irrational. The penis, however, does provide an entry point into the body, and it is exposed to foreign microbes every day, especially during sexual intercourse. The immunological functions of the foreskin and the self-cleansing functions of the penis protect the body from harm.
Every time a genitally intact male urinates, the urine stream flushes out the urethra and foreskin of foreign microbes that may have strayed inside. In healthy individuals, urine is sterile and has a disinfectant quality. Researchers have demonstrated that the swirling action of urine as it rushes through the foreskin flushes it out effortlessly and naturally.(3) This function is especially efficient when the foreskin is long and the preputial orifice is narrow.
Though urine passes through the foreskin every day, the inner foreskin is remarkably free of urea – a by-product of liver metabolism that is secreted in the urine. Studies demonstrate that washings from the foreskin are rich in fructose, acid phosphatase, and mucin, but never urea. It appears that the secretions of seminal vesicles, prostate, and urethral mucous glands, collectively or individually, keep the foreskin clear and clean as well. (4) These self-cleansing functions of the penis are analogous to the self-cleansing functions of the eye, which similarly maintains its cleanliness through fluid washings (tears) and mucus secretion. Therefore, you never need to worry about the foreskin being ‘unclean.’
Self-Protecting Functions
The urinary meatus (the opening of the glans through which urine and semen flow), is an entry point into the body. From infancy to adulthood, the foreskin ensures optimal protection of the glans and urinary meatus from contaminants of all kinds. During childhood, the foreskin is also usually firmly attached to the glans to prevent contaminants from invading the urethra. The neck of the foreskin places the vulnerable urinary meatus at a distance from the external environment and defends it against invading contaminants. The fusion of the foreskin and glans and the nonexpandability of the preputial orifice in the child’s penis are therefore necessary for the health of the child. Even after the foreskin separates from the glans and becomes retractable, it continues throughout life to cover the glans and meatus in order to protect these delicate structures from dirty, contamination, abrasion, or bacterial invasion.
Immunological Protection
The mucous membranes that line all body orifaces are the body’s first line of immunological defense. Glands in the foreskin produce antibacterial and antiviral proteins such as lysozyme. (5) Lysozyme is also found in tears and mother’s milk. Specialized epithelial Langerhans cells, an immune system component, aboud in the foreskin’s outer surface. (6) Plasma cells in the foreskin’s mucosal lining secrete immunoglobulin’s, antibodies that defend against infection. (7)
Rigorously controlled studies have also demonstrated that the foreskin plays a protective role in shielding the rest of the penis and thus the rest of the body from the contagion of common sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) encountered during sexual activity. (8)
In infancy, antibacterial substances, such as the complex sugars (glyconutrients) in breastmilk, the oligosaccharides, are passed from mother to child during breastfeeding and are secreted in the baby’s urine. (9) The penis retains these substances in the foreskin. Universy studies have shown that these substances protect against urinary tract infections (UTIs), as well as from infections of other parts of the body. (10) Babies excrete in their urine 300-500 mililgrams of oligosaccharides every day. These compounds prevent virulent strains of Escherichia coli (e.Coli) from adhering to the mucosal lining of the entire urinary tract, including the foreskin and glans.
Researchers conducting immunological experiments with the foreskins of bulls have found that plasma cells in the mucosal lining of the foreskin secrete immunoglobulin. (11) The researchers hypothesize that this provides immunity from bacteria and other germs. This is likely to work the same in other mammals, including humans.
Apocrine glands are important glands found in the skin. They are found in the foreskin and elsewhere on the body. (12) They secrete the important lysosomal enzymes cathepsin B, lysozyme, chymotrypsin, and neutrophil elastase. (13) All of these enzymes help protect the body from many kinds of bacteria. These enzymes are also found in tears and other bodily fluids. Human apocrine glands also produce cytokine, a nonantibody protein that generates an immune response on contact with specific antigens. (14) All these substances have immunological functions and protect the penis from viral and bacterial pathogens. This natural protective function has been destroyed in circumcised males.
Antibacterial Function
To help fight harmful bacteria, the foreskin supports a rich flora of beneficial bacteria. Friendly bacteria exist in a symbiotic relationship with the body and are found on all body surfaces and through the gastrointestinal, genitourinary tract (the urinary system that runs from the kidneys, through the bladder, and out the penis), and the mouth. Friendly bacteria also thrive in the eyes. Without the presence of friendly bacteria, the human body would be vulnerable to attack from pathogenic bacteria.
The good bacteria that live in the inside of the foreskin are similar to the bacteria found in the mouth, nose, the female genitals, and the skin in general. It must be stressed that this good bacteria is both harmless and highly beneficial. Without these friendly bacteria, the urethra would become an easy entry point for germs and harmful stains of bacteria, which could cause disease.
Protection
Just as the eyelid protects the eye, the foreskin protects the glans, keeping its surface soft, moist, warm and sensitive. It also maintains optimal warmth, pH balance, and cleanliness. The glans itself contains no sebaceous glands – glands that produce the moisturizing oil that our skin needs to stay healthy.(2) The foreskin produces the moisturizer that keeps the surface of the glans glistening, smooth, soft, and a deep healthy red or purple color.
The foreskin will protect the entire penis when accidents happen, such as contusions, abrasions, lacerations, and burns. The foreskin is the first layer – a double layer – of defense from injury to the rest of the penis.
Self-Cleansing Function
The intact penis is naturally clean. The common view of the penis or the foreskin as ‘dirty’ is unscientific and irrational. The penis, however, does provide an entry point into the body, and it is exposed to foreign microbes every day, especially during sexual intercourse. The immunological functions of the foreskin and the self-cleansing functions of the penis protect the body from harm.
Every time a genitally intact male urinates, the urine stream flushes out the urethra and foreskin of foreign microbes that may have strayed inside. In healthy individuals, urine is sterile and has a disinfectant quality. Researchers have demonstrated that the swirling action of urine as it rushes through the foreskin flushes it out effortlessly and naturally.(3) This function is especially efficient when the foreskin is long and the preputial orifice is narrow.
Though urine passes through the foreskin every day, the inner foreskin is remarkably free of urea – a by-product of liver metabolism that is secreted in the urine. Studies demonstrate that washings from the foreskin are rich in fructose, acid phosphatase, and mucin, but never urea. It appears that the secretions of seminal vesicles, prostate, and urethral mucous glands, collectively or individually, keep the foreskin clear and clean as well. (4) These self-cleansing functions of the penis are analogous to the self-cleansing functions of the eye, which similarly maintains its cleanliness through fluid washings (tears) and mucus secretion. Therefore, you never need to worry about the foreskin being ‘unclean.’
Self-Protecting Functions
The urinary meatus (the opening of the glans through which urine and semen flow), is an entry point into the body. From infancy to adulthood, the foreskin ensures optimal protection of the glans and urinary meatus from contaminants of all kinds. During childhood, the foreskin is also usually firmly attached to the glans to prevent contaminants from invading the urethra. The neck of the foreskin places the vulnerable urinary meatus at a distance from the external environment and defends it against invading contaminants. The fusion of the foreskin and glans and the nonexpandability of the preputial orifice in the child’s penis are therefore necessary for the health of the child. Even after the foreskin separates from the glans and becomes retractable, it continues throughout life to cover the glans and meatus in order to protect these delicate structures from dirty, contamination, abrasion, or bacterial invasion.
Immunological Protection
The mucous membranes that line all body orifaces are the body’s first line of immunological defense. Glands in the foreskin produce antibacterial and antiviral proteins such as lysozyme. (5) Lysozyme is also found in tears and mother’s milk. Specialized epithelial Langerhans cells, an immune system component, aboud in the foreskin’s outer surface. (6) Plasma cells in the foreskin’s mucosal lining secrete immunoglobulin’s, antibodies that defend against infection. (7)
Rigorously controlled studies have also demonstrated that the foreskin plays a protective role in shielding the rest of the penis and thus the rest of the body from the contagion of common sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) encountered during sexual activity. (8)
In infancy, antibacterial substances, such as the complex sugars (glyconutrients) in breastmilk, the oligosaccharides, are passed from mother to child during breastfeeding and are secreted in the baby’s urine. (9) The penis retains these substances in the foreskin. Universy studies have shown that these substances protect against urinary tract infections (UTIs), as well as from infections of other parts of the body. (10) Babies excrete in their urine 300-500 mililgrams of oligosaccharides every day. These compounds prevent virulent strains of Escherichia coli (e.Coli) from adhering to the mucosal lining of the entire urinary tract, including the foreskin and glans.
Researchers conducting immunological experiments with the foreskins of bulls have found that plasma cells in the mucosal lining of the foreskin secrete immunoglobulin. (11) The researchers hypothesize that this provides immunity from bacteria and other germs. This is likely to work the same in other mammals, including humans.
Apocrine glands are important glands found in the skin. They are found in the foreskin and elsewhere on the body. (12) They secrete the important lysosomal enzymes cathepsin B, lysozyme, chymotrypsin, and neutrophil elastase. (13) All of these enzymes help protect the body from many kinds of bacteria. These enzymes are also found in tears and other bodily fluids. Human apocrine glands also produce cytokine, a nonantibody protein that generates an immune response on contact with specific antigens. (14) All these substances have immunological functions and protect the penis from viral and bacterial pathogens. This natural protective function has been destroyed in circumcised males.
Antibacterial Function
To help fight harmful bacteria, the foreskin supports a rich flora of beneficial bacteria. Friendly bacteria exist in a symbiotic relationship with the body and are found on all body surfaces and through the gastrointestinal, genitourinary tract (the urinary system that runs from the kidneys, through the bladder, and out the penis), and the mouth. Friendly bacteria also thrive in the eyes. Without the presence of friendly bacteria, the human body would be vulnerable to attack from pathogenic bacteria.
The good bacteria that live in the inside of the foreskin are similar to the bacteria found in the mouth, nose, the female genitals, and the skin in general. It must be stressed that this good bacteria is both harmless and highly beneficial. Without these friendly bacteria, the urethra would become an easy entry point for germs and harmful stains of bacteria, which could cause disease.
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