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Issues with Adult Children
I have 5 kids, ages from 36 to 27. 4 girls, I boy. All are married and all but one live close by. I THOUGHT I had a great relationship with all of them, then one day, a month ago, out of the blue, the youngest (a girl, no children) tells me that she and all her sibs think I am completely out of control, manipulating them one against another, concocting lies and embellishing stories to make one kid look "worse" than another. She is insisting that I own up to my "sins" against them all and apologize and cease all further behavior of this nature or they will all cut me off.
Weirdly, I am still being called for babysitting for the other 4 kids, have been invited to spend a week with my son's family in SoCal...and I cannot talk to this youngest child w/o her coming back at me that the entire family is supportive of her "take" on things. I can't think where this is coming from! I apologized to her, but she said it wasn't "good enough"....and today she sent me another angry email telling me I better get busy with the change of behaviors. WHAT BEHAVIORS!!!?? Don't tell me to talk to my hubby, he cannot and will not get involved with any kind of drama or anything, ever. Did call one daughter and she said they had casually talked about me and my seeming depression as of late (I have had 2 major surgeries in less than a year and so, no, I am not up to helping somebody paint their house) and I have been moderately depressed (mostly because of the health issues) but as far as being actively trying to stir up trouble with my kids....shoot, I married off the last one 3 years ago and being an empty nester is wonderful. I spend a lot of time tending, and while I am doing that, I will do laundry, clean, vacuum, iron, you name it. And I ask nothing in return. I make Sunday dinner every single Sunday for the whole family---and this is how I get thanked? I am at a loss, no matter what I say to this kid (she's 27, she's hardly a kid) she rejects and says it isn't "good enough" or "sincere"., She actually told me that I HAD to change my behavior immediately and permanently. Who talks to their mother like that? I'm ready to never talk to her again! But I can't stand the drama and she knows it and knows what buttons to push. What do I say to her? Or do I just ignore this?
Today for the first time in my life, I felt so bereft and so lonely--my kids are not my friends, as I thought, they are my kids and I can't and shouldn't talk to them as friends. Hubby is in poor health and I do not have time to cultivate/maintain friendships. My "old" friends have all dropped me because for so long I have not been able to go places and do stuff with them Any ideas on how to handle this youngest firecracker? She's made me cry so much...today has been such a bummer. Any help appreciated.
Weirdly, I am still being called for babysitting for the other 4 kids, have been invited to spend a week with my son's family in SoCal...and I cannot talk to this youngest child w/o her coming back at me that the entire family is supportive of her "take" on things. I can't think where this is coming from! I apologized to her, but she said it wasn't "good enough"....and today she sent me another angry email telling me I better get busy with the change of behaviors. WHAT BEHAVIORS!!!?? Don't tell me to talk to my hubby, he cannot and will not get involved with any kind of drama or anything, ever. Did call one daughter and she said they had casually talked about me and my seeming depression as of late (I have had 2 major surgeries in less than a year and so, no, I am not up to helping somebody paint their house) and I have been moderately depressed (mostly because of the health issues) but as far as being actively trying to stir up trouble with my kids....shoot, I married off the last one 3 years ago and being an empty nester is wonderful. I spend a lot of time tending, and while I am doing that, I will do laundry, clean, vacuum, iron, you name it. And I ask nothing in return. I make Sunday dinner every single Sunday for the whole family---and this is how I get thanked? I am at a loss, no matter what I say to this kid (she's 27, she's hardly a kid) she rejects and says it isn't "good enough" or "sincere"., She actually told me that I HAD to change my behavior immediately and permanently. Who talks to their mother like that? I'm ready to never talk to her again! But I can't stand the drama and she knows it and knows what buttons to push. What do I say to her? Or do I just ignore this?
Today for the first time in my life, I felt so bereft and so lonely--my kids are not my friends, as I thought, they are my kids and I can't and shouldn't talk to them as friends. Hubby is in poor health and I do not have time to cultivate/maintain friendships. My "old" friends have all dropped me because for so long I have not been able to go places and do stuff with them Any ideas on how to handle this youngest firecracker? She's made me cry so much...today has been such a bummer. Any help appreciated.
Just an update--I have been seeing my counselor for the past few weeks, and talking this issue through. My daughter is totally refusing to talk to me (well, she did send a terse Happy Birthday" email to me on my birthday last week) to the point that last Sunday I was out of town and my hubby wanted to know how to get all the kids to come over on Sunday (which most of them do, every week). I told him to get some kind of dessert, send out a group email (mentioning that I am not going to be there) and see what happened. Well, ALL the kids came, even this daughter. My hubby left town before I returned and I talked to him briefly and asked how it had gone (I saw the mess left behind for me to clean up, so I know they had fun) and all he said was "S***** came and she doesn't hate you"...duh, I know she doesn't hate me, but the fact she came KNOWING I wouldn't be there is telling. Currently we are not speaking, tho I do shoot a group email to everyone letting them know if Sunday is going to be dinner or just dessert. She did not and will not reply. My therapist and I have decided that the best option is to let this run it's course. I will work on any issues that I have with the group of kids as a whole and she can just be petty and childish. We have 2 family weddings coming up, I just hope she chooses not to make a scene at either of these events or the bridal showers preceding them. Not much else I can do, unless it's go to her house, grovel for forgiveness and let her always feel she has the upper hand (it's not about power, it's about respect.)
Right now things are calm, I'm sure they'll blow up soon.
Thanks for all the support here--you were all so kind when I was so sad.
Liz50
Right now things are calm, I'm sure they'll blow up soon.
Thanks for all the support here--you were all so kind when I was so sad.
Liz50
I think there comes a time in any childs life where they strike back at mom and dad over things done to them in their earlier years. Its stuff that have been repressed and now has come to the surface. Also she is trying to show you that she has opinions about things and that her opinions have value and is using some issues from the past to validate her knowlege.
Its like she is finally growing up but using the wrong approach to gain respect from you.
Respect has to be earned and not gained by showing the humanity that we all make mistakes.
Its like she is finally growing up but using the wrong approach to gain respect from you.
Respect has to be earned and not gained by showing the humanity that we all make mistakes.
You probably read my comment to Life 360. No she hasn't joined any religion---as I said, she left Mormonism years ago. That was intense, just because she made it such a huge deal--and I personally felt bad at the time (6-7 years ago) because this is the faith she was raised in and once loved--now she is pretty quiet about it, but does pull that "repent and I might forgive you" line now and then,,,I thought atheists were a little cooler than that. I know a lot, but they are all pretty 'live and let live'. This kid does love to push my buttons. I'm just not going to let her.
I have spoken open and honestly with all 4 of the other siblings. In truth, it was just one of the sisters who was egging her on in this----one who is going through a tough pregnancy and is feeling pretty hormonal and crazy these days---they would get together and have b/itch sessions about me. (even though the pg one has graciously allowed me to tend 4-5 times and is planning on me helping her paint her entire condo before the baby arrives...so I don't think she is as angry as she has been portrayed )
The other two daughters were much more level headed and my son lives in SoCal and could not care less what is going on in my life, so in fact, the daughter who is being so demanding is really kind of standing all alone.
I spoke at length with the 2 oldest girls and asked them to help me to be more positive and when I wander into "no-no" territory to call me on it (nicely, of course)...I obviously cannot change immediately and permanently (that makes me laugh now, when I read it, too)....I have not heard from my daughter, the ball is in her court. I assume she has cut me out of her life, but how would I know? I only see her> once a month and then only because we invite them down. So she could have completely dumped me and I wouldn't even know it.
Going to San Diego to visit the 4 grandkids there and my son and DIL. It's been over 100 for days now and I am taking my "birthday week" and spending it in cooler climes. I am sure my daughter won't acknowledge my b-day and that's fine.
Thanks for all your insightful comments!! You have all helped me tremendously!!!
Liz
I have spoken open and honestly with all 4 of the other siblings. In truth, it was just one of the sisters who was egging her on in this----one who is going through a tough pregnancy and is feeling pretty hormonal and crazy these days---they would get together and have b/itch sessions about me. (even though the pg one has graciously allowed me to tend 4-5 times and is planning on me helping her paint her entire condo before the baby arrives...so I don't think she is as angry as she has been portrayed )
The other two daughters were much more level headed and my son lives in SoCal and could not care less what is going on in my life, so in fact, the daughter who is being so demanding is really kind of standing all alone.
I spoke at length with the 2 oldest girls and asked them to help me to be more positive and when I wander into "no-no" territory to call me on it (nicely, of course)...I obviously cannot change immediately and permanently (that makes me laugh now, when I read it, too)....I have not heard from my daughter, the ball is in her court. I assume she has cut me out of her life, but how would I know? I only see her> once a month and then only because we invite them down. So she could have completely dumped me and I wouldn't even know it.
Going to San Diego to visit the 4 grandkids there and my son and DIL. It's been over 100 for days now and I am taking my "birthday week" and spending it in cooler climes. I am sure my daughter won't acknowledge my b-day and that's fine.
Thanks for all your insightful comments!! You have all helped me tremendously!!!
Liz
I laugh when she used that word---she is an avowed atheist, so I don't know why she chose that word. Probably because I am an active Mormon and she knew it's a word I'd use--and honestly, I'd never use such a strong term to describe anyone's behavior. She has some big issues with the fact she left Mormonism and is pretty vocal at times about it. (The whole rest of our family is active Mormon) I totally respect her choice to leave and it is NOT an issue for me, She thinks it is. It isn't. She just forgot how to forgive when she left the church. Literally, she does NOT forgive. You have to grovel. I'm not doing that.
I think you have great perspective, and I'm so glad you're ironing this out with your therapist. I couldn't agree more with her assessment and advice. Your daughter is being a bully, regardless if there is some valid issues there. You're more than willing to be open minded and work on whatever you need to work on, but her demands are not only ridiculous, but she has no right to speak to you in that way.
Hopefully it won't come to her writing you off, that would be a shame, but if she's so quick to do that, she is not a very reasonable person. Life asks a good question about her use of the word "sins". HAS she recently joined up with a new church or similar type organization? Or, maybe a new group of friends? Just wonder where her "passion" is coming from...it's pretty intense.
I wish you the best. I think your plan is a good one. Ignore any emails/messages like the ones you got that demand you admit all of your sins, repent, and change everything she tells you immediately and permanently (almost can't type that with a straight face, it's downright ridiculous). Then, hopefully at some point she'll open up to the idea of a reasonable conversation, maybe with the help of the therapist (or another one).
Keep us updated ok?
Hopefully it won't come to her writing you off, that would be a shame, but if she's so quick to do that, she is not a very reasonable person. Life asks a good question about her use of the word "sins". HAS she recently joined up with a new church or similar type organization? Or, maybe a new group of friends? Just wonder where her "passion" is coming from...it's pretty intense.
I wish you the best. I think your plan is a good one. Ignore any emails/messages like the ones you got that demand you admit all of your sins, repent, and change everything she tells you immediately and permanently (almost can't type that with a straight face, it's downright ridiculous). Then, hopefully at some point she'll open up to the idea of a reasonable conversation, maybe with the help of the therapist (or another one).
Keep us updated ok?
Why does she use the word "sins" has she recently became involved in a religious movement?
Thanks--things are relatively calm right now, and I appreciate that. With a huge family, something is always afoot...
After re-reading all the emails that went between the two of us, I highlighted the times I told her I was sorry (8) and the times I said I would work on changing the things she felt needed change (6). Even with that, she still was demanding and unreasonable with me, so my therapist's suggestion that I "let it go", I think was appropriate.
My hubby has never been particularly supportive, He is a good man, but he is not complimentary or very thoughtful. But I have learned that people show their love in many ways, and he works hard for our family...and altho he will NEVER stand up for me to anyone, well, he saw only a toxic, dreadful marriage between his parents and he's still figuring out that all marriages don't have to be that way.
I'm working on forgiving the abusive (now deceased brother--and my parents? Well, daddy died 8 years ago and we were at peace over this when he died. Mom can't and never will believe me, and that I something I will have to live with.
As far as my daughter--she won't be content until I have humbled myself in front of the entire family and confessed my sins. I'm not going to do that. How humiliating and how inappropriate! I am not expecting to see or hear from her for a long, long time. As is said before, she can cut people (anyone, for that matter) out of her life and not look back. I think this may be one of those times. I do hope she gets some perspective, but I know her very well and she does NOT forgive, unless it is on her terms.
Thanks for your support!
Liz
After re-reading all the emails that went between the two of us, I highlighted the times I told her I was sorry (8) and the times I said I would work on changing the things she felt needed change (6). Even with that, she still was demanding and unreasonable with me, so my therapist's suggestion that I "let it go", I think was appropriate.
My hubby has never been particularly supportive, He is a good man, but he is not complimentary or very thoughtful. But I have learned that people show their love in many ways, and he works hard for our family...and altho he will NEVER stand up for me to anyone, well, he saw only a toxic, dreadful marriage between his parents and he's still figuring out that all marriages don't have to be that way.
I'm working on forgiving the abusive (now deceased brother--and my parents? Well, daddy died 8 years ago and we were at peace over this when he died. Mom can't and never will believe me, and that I something I will have to live with.
As far as my daughter--she won't be content until I have humbled myself in front of the entire family and confessed my sins. I'm not going to do that. How humiliating and how inappropriate! I am not expecting to see or hear from her for a long, long time. As is said before, she can cut people (anyone, for that matter) out of her life and not look back. I think this may be one of those times. I do hope she gets some perspective, but I know her very well and she does NOT forgive, unless it is on her terms.
Thanks for your support!
Liz
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hi Liz. Well, I'm glad you spoke with your therapist and feel good about what the two of you decided was the best way to proceed. I do tend to agree that this daughter sounds very unreasonable and hurtful. At some point SHE becomes toxic to YOU. You are doing the best you can. You are admitting you have faults and things to work on. I worry about one thing from what you've written and that is your husband. He does not sound very sweet to you or supportive. Hope that is all alright. You are a victim twice over--- by the brother and by parents that refuse to believe you. This does create barriers in us that are deep and possibly life long. Absolutely work on whatever issues you may have but being molested and terrorized by your brother is something HUGE to deal with. In and of itself.
I hope your daughter realizes that she also isn't perfect and learns to humble herself.
Wishing you peace and yes, please come back and let us know what happens. hugs as I'm sure this is hard.
I hope your daughter realizes that she also isn't perfect and learns to humble herself.
Wishing you peace and yes, please come back and let us know what happens. hugs as I'm sure this is hard.
I saw my therapist yesterday, shared with her the emails and discussed what to do. She has known me for YEARS and understands the dynamic of our family.
I do feel better--she is such a calm voice of reason, even when she's "chastising me"....as she's done, so it's not like I got there and get validation for stinky behaviors :) She suggested that I not answer my daughter's latest email where she is demanding that I admit to my faults, apologize and change immediately and permanently. She said that is simply emotional blackmail and that she has no right to be demanding of me in this way. I had felt the same way, but to hear it from a professional--it helped me to feel better. She did ask if this daughter ever forgives, and well, no, she really doesn't and has cut many people out of her life for much lesser transgressions. Asked me if I was prepared to be one of those to whom she doesn't speak and I thought for a moment, and said "Yes, I can live with that. I don't think she should be allowed to terrorize me".
I do have a "list" of things I am to work on and I will be seeing my therapist probably every other week for a few months.
I do hold out some hope that my daughter will re-read the emails and see that I do in fact apologize to her, many times, and also try to get her to see that I also have some stress in my life, she's not the only one with a lot on her plate. If she chooses to still cut me off, it's her loss. I have put up with more from this kid than all the other 4 put together, and she is old enough to handle her emotions. I can't do more.
Thanks to all--likely I'll be back here with updates, but I do thank you all.
Liz
I do feel better--she is such a calm voice of reason, even when she's "chastising me"....as she's done, so it's not like I got there and get validation for stinky behaviors :) She suggested that I not answer my daughter's latest email where she is demanding that I admit to my faults, apologize and change immediately and permanently. She said that is simply emotional blackmail and that she has no right to be demanding of me in this way. I had felt the same way, but to hear it from a professional--it helped me to feel better. She did ask if this daughter ever forgives, and well, no, she really doesn't and has cut many people out of her life for much lesser transgressions. Asked me if I was prepared to be one of those to whom she doesn't speak and I thought for a moment, and said "Yes, I can live with that. I don't think she should be allowed to terrorize me".
I do have a "list" of things I am to work on and I will be seeing my therapist probably every other week for a few months.
I do hold out some hope that my daughter will re-read the emails and see that I do in fact apologize to her, many times, and also try to get her to see that I also have some stress in my life, she's not the only one with a lot on her plate. If she chooses to still cut me off, it's her loss. I have put up with more from this kid than all the other 4 put together, and she is old enough to handle her emotions. I can't do more.
Thanks to all--likely I'll be back here with updates, but I do thank you all.
Liz
All very well said! I think you've got an excellent outlook about this and great insight! Good for you!
Wow, again, thanks, I am feeling so much better, just knowing that out there in cyberspace there are people who take a moment to share their insights and knowledge.
I am going to try to answer all points in some kind of fashion, rather than individually:
I don't want to have a meeting and let the kids "have at me"...while that may work in a controlled environment, ie: a therapy session, I can see it backfiring on me and I would simply place myself in the center as a "target" and they would let loose and really, that wouldn't help at all. I am who I am and 5 people (well, 6 because hubby certainly would have his say) telling where I fail/have failed them would be really hard to take. Also, I think it may end up pitting the kids against each other and right now, they are very close and I would rather live with this than see them not get along.
One of you hit upon the long time abuse factor: WITHOUT QUESTION that has shaped who I am and how I feel about myself. My brother was not a good person and caused a tremendous amt of pain to so many people. I couldn't begin to describe the misery he left wherever he went. I turned his abuse of me into self-hate and my younger brother turned his into an eating disorder. He weighs over 400 lbs. While I opted to go to the memorial service for this older brother, my younger bro just refused. And YES we did tell our parents, but they did not believe us, not when we were younger and not now. While I did not feel much peace over his death, there is a sense of relief. I do wish he had simply apologized to me--forgiveness would have been immediate on my part--but if someone hurts you for 15+ years & is never remorseful, it is very hard to work your way to forgive. I will, one day, I'm sure.
My daughter who spoke to me honestly (and with GREAT love) was showing that yes, I have some quirks and traits and things that worry and upset some of the sibs, But she did it in a loving, kind way and without the demands that this youngest kid places on me. Knowing this daughter LOVES me, despite my failings, and then following that talk up with a kind email and some "positive thinking" thoughts was so much better than her sister's way of raking me over the coals.
Also, it may be a salient point to make that this youngest child has had some severe emotional issues in the past, I did have to have her committed for repeated suicidal threats at age 18. She spent 10 days in an in patient facility, and at the end of that was allowed to come home, but was monitored pretty closely. At that time (8+years ago) she decided she was going to fly straight and has quit all meds and actually has done very well. She is married but has chosen to never have children (I think having kids makes you appreciate your own parents a lot more--levels that playing field, so to speak)..and I support her decision 100%. She has a very high strung, emotional, interfering mother in law and she has constant issues with her. Suddenly she is treating me as she treats her MIL, setting these impossible boundaries and limits. It's kind of weird and surreal.
Honestly? I am grateful that my kids will call me out on my "stuff"--but I feel they need to also remember there are 5 of them and one of me. I see my therapist today and will run all this by her. I've been with her for 17 years and she is always able to help me see clearly. I will ask her thoughts about a "group session" idea.
You know, when I was younger I felt that my mom was doing a lot of goofy things, but respected her enough to just love her though them. Now she's 83 and I am SO glad I never went "dramatic" on her. Time often gives many of these things perspective.
I need to work this out with my daughter, even if it means she won't speak to me for years. This is her dynamic, if someone crosses her she can cut them out of her life forever without a backward glance.
Thanks again--lots to think about.
Liz
I am going to try to answer all points in some kind of fashion, rather than individually:
I don't want to have a meeting and let the kids "have at me"...while that may work in a controlled environment, ie: a therapy session, I can see it backfiring on me and I would simply place myself in the center as a "target" and they would let loose and really, that wouldn't help at all. I am who I am and 5 people (well, 6 because hubby certainly would have his say) telling where I fail/have failed them would be really hard to take. Also, I think it may end up pitting the kids against each other and right now, they are very close and I would rather live with this than see them not get along.
One of you hit upon the long time abuse factor: WITHOUT QUESTION that has shaped who I am and how I feel about myself. My brother was not a good person and caused a tremendous amt of pain to so many people. I couldn't begin to describe the misery he left wherever he went. I turned his abuse of me into self-hate and my younger brother turned his into an eating disorder. He weighs over 400 lbs. While I opted to go to the memorial service for this older brother, my younger bro just refused. And YES we did tell our parents, but they did not believe us, not when we were younger and not now. While I did not feel much peace over his death, there is a sense of relief. I do wish he had simply apologized to me--forgiveness would have been immediate on my part--but if someone hurts you for 15+ years & is never remorseful, it is very hard to work your way to forgive. I will, one day, I'm sure.
My daughter who spoke to me honestly (and with GREAT love) was showing that yes, I have some quirks and traits and things that worry and upset some of the sibs, But she did it in a loving, kind way and without the demands that this youngest kid places on me. Knowing this daughter LOVES me, despite my failings, and then following that talk up with a kind email and some "positive thinking" thoughts was so much better than her sister's way of raking me over the coals.
Also, it may be a salient point to make that this youngest child has had some severe emotional issues in the past, I did have to have her committed for repeated suicidal threats at age 18. She spent 10 days in an in patient facility, and at the end of that was allowed to come home, but was monitored pretty closely. At that time (8+years ago) she decided she was going to fly straight and has quit all meds and actually has done very well. She is married but has chosen to never have children (I think having kids makes you appreciate your own parents a lot more--levels that playing field, so to speak)..and I support her decision 100%. She has a very high strung, emotional, interfering mother in law and she has constant issues with her. Suddenly she is treating me as she treats her MIL, setting these impossible boundaries and limits. It's kind of weird and surreal.
Honestly? I am grateful that my kids will call me out on my "stuff"--but I feel they need to also remember there are 5 of them and one of me. I see my therapist today and will run all this by her. I've been with her for 17 years and she is always able to help me see clearly. I will ask her thoughts about a "group session" idea.
You know, when I was younger I felt that my mom was doing a lot of goofy things, but respected her enough to just love her though them. Now she's 83 and I am SO glad I never went "dramatic" on her. Time often gives many of these things perspective.
I need to work this out with my daughter, even if it means she won't speak to me for years. This is her dynamic, if someone crosses her she can cut them out of her life forever without a backward glance.
Thanks again--lots to think about.
Liz
I agree the youngest daughter should be shut down - but I'm getting a pretty clear image that these 5 siblings do an AWFUL lot of backbiting and gossiping one on one, and then conversations are repeated between the others. In my experience, when people sit down together with everyone in the same room, in a planned discussion with one person asking for sincere in put and then sitting quietly and taking the input it rarely ratchets up - rather, it's very difficult to gang up on one person who is humbly asking for input. Very, very difficult especially if it's Mom. The one daughter is clearly very hesitant to say cruel things to the mother even though she acknowledges basically what the younger daughter is so obnoxiously complaining about. I think the dynamics would work to shut down the younger loudmouth one, and Mom could get some real input into a problem that she is struggling to comprehend.
It could even be done in a very clear format - each sibling has 3 minutes to talk, and then we will close the session for now and Mom can think about what was said.
I've been parliamentarian for a couple groups, and this is what works for me. You get these horrible behind the scenes catfights with the leadership of a group, and then you call a meeting where everyone will be allowed to speak for a few minutes while everyone listens, and whuuusssshhh out goes the wind from the sails of the most vitriolic combatants. Anger that gathers energy when it's one on one gossip dissipates in a group setting, in my experience.
It could even be done in a very clear format - each sibling has 3 minutes to talk, and then we will close the session for now and Mom can think about what was said.
I've been parliamentarian for a couple groups, and this is what works for me. You get these horrible behind the scenes catfights with the leadership of a group, and then you call a meeting where everyone will be allowed to speak for a few minutes while everyone listens, and whuuusssshhh out goes the wind from the sails of the most vitriolic combatants. Anger that gathers energy when it's one on one gossip dissipates in a group setting, in my experience.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Interesting Rockrose. I see this as woman that has tried . . . still hosting those family dinners, caring about her family, etc. With some obvious and clear dysfunction in her past immediate family, this could very well run deep.
I would not set up a situation in which all sit together and let it rip what they feel she does/did wrong. Too hurtful. A conversation with each child asking what she could do better in their opinion to make them feel loved and to stay close would be beneficial. But to have everyone at once giving this input with one of the participants being so angry and riling up the group could backfire, cause this poor woman to implode and say 'screw it'. I know I would be tempted under those circumstances. A softer approach of one on one conversations would give the same information but in a less dramatic way.
And the way this younger daughter is almost threatening needs to be shut down. Immediately. She shouldn't be speaking for everyone. She shouldn't be saying 'do this' in the tone she is using. NONE of that is helpful and I'd tell her to stop.
good luck to the poster
I would not set up a situation in which all sit together and let it rip what they feel she does/did wrong. Too hurtful. A conversation with each child asking what she could do better in their opinion to make them feel loved and to stay close would be beneficial. But to have everyone at once giving this input with one of the participants being so angry and riling up the group could backfire, cause this poor woman to implode and say 'screw it'. I know I would be tempted under those circumstances. A softer approach of one on one conversations would give the same information but in a less dramatic way.
And the way this younger daughter is almost threatening needs to be shut down. Immediately. She shouldn't be speaking for everyone. She shouldn't be saying 'do this' in the tone she is using. NONE of that is helpful and I'd tell her to stop.
good luck to the poster
Liz, I'm sorry you're in such pain.
What does come out, though, is that your daughter who you called and trust her "take" on things to be honest with you, basically validated what the youngest daughter was saying. She had a little different perspective, and was less harsh and probably less exaggerating than your youngest daughter, but basically validated what she said. That your children are communicating with each other and complaining about your behavior - and your one daughter kindly said mostly they were concerned about your health and she knew you were "trying to do better".
You have 5 different personalities in your adult children, so their "take" on this will be different, but putting a picture together of the two daughter's assessment, and your husband's input, an image come arise that there are real problems between you and your adult children, and the adult children seem to believe you are the source of the problem.
SInce you cook dinner for them every Sunday, I suggest you send them all a group email. and say you're really concerned about what has come to light about the feelings between them all about your role in the family, and you'd like to listen to what they have to say on Sunday. And then, listen. Don't argue, don't disagree, don't defend - just listen.
Best wishes. I actually think adult children can be very great friends - and have found my inlaws and my parents treating us as equals as we mature and have children. I think that may be the root of this - do you see your adult children as equals?
Best wishes. You sound like you're dealing with a lot of pain.
What does come out, though, is that your daughter who you called and trust her "take" on things to be honest with you, basically validated what the youngest daughter was saying. She had a little different perspective, and was less harsh and probably less exaggerating than your youngest daughter, but basically validated what she said. That your children are communicating with each other and complaining about your behavior - and your one daughter kindly said mostly they were concerned about your health and she knew you were "trying to do better".
You have 5 different personalities in your adult children, so their "take" on this will be different, but putting a picture together of the two daughter's assessment, and your husband's input, an image come arise that there are real problems between you and your adult children, and the adult children seem to believe you are the source of the problem.
SInce you cook dinner for them every Sunday, I suggest you send them all a group email. and say you're really concerned about what has come to light about the feelings between them all about your role in the family, and you'd like to listen to what they have to say on Sunday. And then, listen. Don't argue, don't disagree, don't defend - just listen.
Best wishes. I actually think adult children can be very great friends - and have found my inlaws and my parents treating us as equals as we mature and have children. I think that may be the root of this - do you see your adult children as equals?
Best wishes. You sound like you're dealing with a lot of pain.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I honestly think you need to tell your daughter that you are X age and that there may be minor improvements that you make along the way as we are all a work in progress----- you are pretty happy with who you are. she should go on to her plan B as she threatens you. If you don't make the changes, what? Tell her to do what. You're fine with it. You've done your best and now you are moving on. If she doesn't care for you or the way you've parented, she can deal with it on her own. By herself. You will still see your other kids, you will still be a part of their lives. She can be part of your life too but she needs to work on HER issues. Because at this point, she is a negative in your life and you really don't want to be around HER.
Honestly, she sounds toxic.
I'm sorry about your brother. That is awful. Did your parents know?
Honestly, she sounds toxic.
I'm sorry about your brother. That is awful. Did your parents know?
First off--THANK YOU for replying. I was really just venting on this forum and honestly didn't expect ANY replies.
I did talk to the one daughter she lives near and is closest to. This daughter will be 100% honest with me, no matter how much it hurts. She said that yes, there had been a few b/itch sessions among the sibs, but nothing to the degree that this angry daughter is portraying, and yes, she felt I could be more positive and kinder when speaking of the other kids, but she said she was mostly concerned for my health and happiness. She also acknowledged that she could see I was TRYING to do better.
I did talk to my hubby (big mistake) and all he said she must have some good reasons to talk the way she does--hubs is not really supportive and just wants peace. He's sick of her antics and her ability to punch my buttons and made some comment about how she was still a "kid"--well she's 27 and at 27 I had 4 kids and no way would he have put up with this kind of behavior. He did point out to me the many, many things he feels I do wrong (ok, he's an engineer and fixes problems all day)...so that was not very helpful.
I will be seeing my therapist on Thursday and will work on this, Until then, I will not respond to her email. Her demands that I change a list of personality traits "immediately and permanently" strikes me as being really thoughtless and manipulative. I am still her mother. I would NEVER talk to my mother like that--ever.
Off the subject, but perhaps part of this whole thing comes the fact that I was sexually abused and tormented by an older brother all my life. I had to cut ties with him over 10 years ago, He passed away 2 weeks ago. Although I had no relationship with him, it was still a death in the family and I needed to be supportive of my mother and deal with the feelings that have come since his death, My daughter's complete lack of emotional support and her demands have left me exhausted and depressed. All she sees is that I have to change, change completely and change NOW. Yes, there are a lot of things I can work on, but love and support would go a long ways towards helping--being demanding and angry just makes me defensive and hurt.
THANKS ALL--I need some sleep, but this has helped me a lot. I appreciate your thoughtful answers.
Liz
I did talk to the one daughter she lives near and is closest to. This daughter will be 100% honest with me, no matter how much it hurts. She said that yes, there had been a few b/itch sessions among the sibs, but nothing to the degree that this angry daughter is portraying, and yes, she felt I could be more positive and kinder when speaking of the other kids, but she said she was mostly concerned for my health and happiness. She also acknowledged that she could see I was TRYING to do better.
I did talk to my hubby (big mistake) and all he said she must have some good reasons to talk the way she does--hubs is not really supportive and just wants peace. He's sick of her antics and her ability to punch my buttons and made some comment about how she was still a "kid"--well she's 27 and at 27 I had 4 kids and no way would he have put up with this kind of behavior. He did point out to me the many, many things he feels I do wrong (ok, he's an engineer and fixes problems all day)...so that was not very helpful.
I will be seeing my therapist on Thursday and will work on this, Until then, I will not respond to her email. Her demands that I change a list of personality traits "immediately and permanently" strikes me as being really thoughtless and manipulative. I am still her mother. I would NEVER talk to my mother like that--ever.
Off the subject, but perhaps part of this whole thing comes the fact that I was sexually abused and tormented by an older brother all my life. I had to cut ties with him over 10 years ago, He passed away 2 weeks ago. Although I had no relationship with him, it was still a death in the family and I needed to be supportive of my mother and deal with the feelings that have come since his death, My daughter's complete lack of emotional support and her demands have left me exhausted and depressed. All she sees is that I have to change, change completely and change NOW. Yes, there are a lot of things I can work on, but love and support would go a long ways towards helping--being demanding and angry just makes me defensive and hurt.
THANKS ALL--I need some sleep, but this has helped me a lot. I appreciate your thoughtful answers.
Liz
COMMUNITY LEADER
Gosh, I am so very sorry to hear about this. How awful. You sound like a pretty awesome mother and lady to me!! My mom is long passed away and I'd so love to have around to be part of my life. And now I'm a mother to my own kids. It hurts my heart for you that she is treating you this way--- especially since you say it is a hard time with some depression and health issues.
First, do NOT let her speak for your whole family. Your other kids are not backing her up. They aren't treating you any different, aren't complaining to you about things, still want you to be part of their lives, etc. Sure, maybe they had some sort of b/tch session about you. What group of siblings hasn't done that once in a blue moon. Big deal. It really is meaningless. We all get irritated and can come up with perceived hurts from time to time with someone that we generally love with our whole hearts. Your other kids seem to be fine with you. Don't let her make you feel otherwise.
Instead, let her know that she does NOT speak for her siblings and you will not discuss your relationship with your other kids with her anymore. Period. And if she sends you a grumpy email. Honestly, consider reading a line or two and then deleting it before reading the whole thing. And don't respond to her other than "sorry you feel this way. Let me know when you come to your senses." Don't entertain it.
we all do the best we can as parents. Sure, we might make mistakes or we might not. If you can't think of anything you do that is along the lines she describes---- just write it off to an unhappy person taking it out on you. And move on.
She'll get over it or she'll be a jerk and not come to your house for Christmas. Whatever. Your other kids treat you fine--- you can do a check in and say something like "I love all you kids so much. Everything okay with us?" (us being you and the person you are asking at that time.)
Yes, check back with us and let us know how it goes. peace and luck
First, do NOT let her speak for your whole family. Your other kids are not backing her up. They aren't treating you any different, aren't complaining to you about things, still want you to be part of their lives, etc. Sure, maybe they had some sort of b/tch session about you. What group of siblings hasn't done that once in a blue moon. Big deal. It really is meaningless. We all get irritated and can come up with perceived hurts from time to time with someone that we generally love with our whole hearts. Your other kids seem to be fine with you. Don't let her make you feel otherwise.
Instead, let her know that she does NOT speak for her siblings and you will not discuss your relationship with your other kids with her anymore. Period. And if she sends you a grumpy email. Honestly, consider reading a line or two and then deleting it before reading the whole thing. And don't respond to her other than "sorry you feel this way. Let me know when you come to your senses." Don't entertain it.
we all do the best we can as parents. Sure, we might make mistakes or we might not. If you can't think of anything you do that is along the lines she describes---- just write it off to an unhappy person taking it out on you. And move on.
She'll get over it or she'll be a jerk and not come to your house for Christmas. Whatever. Your other kids treat you fine--- you can do a check in and say something like "I love all you kids so much. Everything okay with us?" (us being you and the person you are asking at that time.)
Yes, check back with us and let us know how it goes. peace and luck
Wow, that sounds awful! I'm sorry you're going through this.
It DOES seem very perplexing that you and her have such different views of the situation. Here, she's making this HUGE deal out of something she obviously feels strong about, and you're just not seeing it or getting it, which is why I'm sure she says your apology is insincere. You're not sure what you're apologizing for. Have your other children said anything directly to you about this, or is this ALL coming from her?
If so, maybe it would be best to distance yourself from her for a while. She has NO right to talk to you in the manner she has been, even if there's some truth in what she perceives the situation is. She's not going to get anywhere by demanding you become sorrowful, regretful and change your ways in 5 minutes. Even if everything she said about you is true, that's completely ridiculous and unrealistic. Change takes time.
I think it wouldn't hurt to do some thinking about this to try to make sense of what she may be talking about. ARE there some things you do that could give the impression you're pitting the kids against one another? Even seeming innocent "venting" type convos you have with one child about another? That kind of dynamic absoutely happens when children become adults, because the nature of the relationships between parent and child change quite a bit. My mother will vent to me about my sister at times, and vice versa, but we talk amongst ourselves about it, and usually get a laugh out of it..we know there are no mean intentions there, just venting from time to time, so it doesn't bother us. We actually have gotten very good at predicting when Mom is needing to talk about one of us to the other...lol.
If you TRULY cannot recognize what she talking about, then just leave her be for a while, and just be sure you're not talking about her to her siblings. Just keep things business as usual with the other kids, and if they bring it up, you can share with them that of course her feelings are important, and you would love to explore what exactly is going on with her, but she's making it impossible by being so difficult and demanding. There's just no call for that.
If you determine that there's some truth in what she's saying, and there have been convos you've had with your children that they could perceive as you kind of pitting one against another...then obviously some things need to change. Still, if she doesn't ease up a bit, any progress will be impossible. You could always suggest some family counselling for the two of you, and the other siblings if they share the same level of concern as she does. If she balks at the idea, that would be unfortunate, as it doesn't seem there is much hope here of the two of you sitting down to talk this out rationally at this point. Maybe after a cooling off period, she'll be more reasonable.
Please let us know what happens...try not to let it stress you out too much (I know easier said than done) until you get some clarification. Right now, it sounds like a lot of empty accusations and unreasonable demands. You're not going to get very far with that.
It DOES seem very perplexing that you and her have such different views of the situation. Here, she's making this HUGE deal out of something she obviously feels strong about, and you're just not seeing it or getting it, which is why I'm sure she says your apology is insincere. You're not sure what you're apologizing for. Have your other children said anything directly to you about this, or is this ALL coming from her?
If so, maybe it would be best to distance yourself from her for a while. She has NO right to talk to you in the manner she has been, even if there's some truth in what she perceives the situation is. She's not going to get anywhere by demanding you become sorrowful, regretful and change your ways in 5 minutes. Even if everything she said about you is true, that's completely ridiculous and unrealistic. Change takes time.
I think it wouldn't hurt to do some thinking about this to try to make sense of what she may be talking about. ARE there some things you do that could give the impression you're pitting the kids against one another? Even seeming innocent "venting" type convos you have with one child about another? That kind of dynamic absoutely happens when children become adults, because the nature of the relationships between parent and child change quite a bit. My mother will vent to me about my sister at times, and vice versa, but we talk amongst ourselves about it, and usually get a laugh out of it..we know there are no mean intentions there, just venting from time to time, so it doesn't bother us. We actually have gotten very good at predicting when Mom is needing to talk about one of us to the other...lol.
If you TRULY cannot recognize what she talking about, then just leave her be for a while, and just be sure you're not talking about her to her siblings. Just keep things business as usual with the other kids, and if they bring it up, you can share with them that of course her feelings are important, and you would love to explore what exactly is going on with her, but she's making it impossible by being so difficult and demanding. There's just no call for that.
If you determine that there's some truth in what she's saying, and there have been convos you've had with your children that they could perceive as you kind of pitting one against another...then obviously some things need to change. Still, if she doesn't ease up a bit, any progress will be impossible. You could always suggest some family counselling for the two of you, and the other siblings if they share the same level of concern as she does. If she balks at the idea, that would be unfortunate, as it doesn't seem there is much hope here of the two of you sitting down to talk this out rationally at this point. Maybe after a cooling off period, she'll be more reasonable.
Please let us know what happens...try not to let it stress you out too much (I know easier said than done) until you get some clarification. Right now, it sounds like a lot of empty accusations and unreasonable demands. You're not going to get very far with that.
Your daughter sounds alot like my 17 year old girl, strangely enough. I don't know if this will help in your case, but will give it a go. I would tell this girl that "I love you, and will never stop loving you, no matter how you choose to react to me. I will not change my personality for anyone, not even you. My door remains open, porch light will be on. I will never lock you out. You may do so to me if you choose. Just remember that I am your mother, in every sense of the word, and have raised you and your siblings to be wonderful people. I will never stop being your mother, no matter what."
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