Aa
Hyperthyroid
At the moment I am free of any thyroid problems but I have been left with, what I think, is some permanent damage to my feet. I have been researching this for several years trying to find a cause for this and I have finally resolved to blame it on hyperthyroidism. Seven years ago at age 55, my 2 year old granddaughter came to live with me. It was quite a culture shock for me as I worked full time and now had to find daycare and all the necessities that go along with raising a child. Soon after I began to have some strange symptoms i.e. twitching thigh muscles, vomiting, sore eyes (I also had Grave's diseases with the hyperthyroid), muscle weakness (couldn't pull myself out of a pool or step up into a van) and weight loss (35 lbs.). I blamed all this things on being out of shape and now having a more demanding schedule. The next symptom was excessive sweating, needing glasses, extremely dry eyes and tremors. I was now diagnosed and began treatment. During this time I had incredible burning in the front arch of my feet but again blamed it on other things. BUT, my second and third toe began to shift and quite severely. Before long they actually looked like they were turned facing the big toe. They did not overlap. Since then I have been self conscious of my feet as they were always what you would call 'pretty feet'. My feet have been a problem every since with pain and deformity. I have been to 2 orthopedic surgeons and my own doctor and they have all said they have never seen anything like that before and they are stumped. My x-rays showed a collapsed front arch and a few unrelated things. I am left up in the air because no one will do anything about it and they have certainly not put my thyroid as being the cause. Reading different sites, not all, there has been vague reference to foot pain. I am wondering what anyone else might think.
Thanks, Gramzees.
Thanks, Gramzees.
I am going back to the dr. on May 7th. I will get copies of my lab reports and post them for you.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
COMMUNITY LEADER
What are the actual results, with reference ranges, of your latest thyroid tests? Were they Free T3 and Free T4? As I mentioned above, Total T3 and Total T4 are relatively useless.
"Broken Thermostat".... your thyroid controls your body temperature, so if you have a broken thermostat, you have a broken thyroid. Just because thyroid levels fall into the "normal" category, doesn't mean they are normal for you.
If you'll post your current labs, maybe I can shed some light on what's going on.
I'd still recommend that you get all the antibody testing done that I recommended above. It's possible to have both, Graves and Hashimoto's and symptoms will depend on which one is dominate at a given time. Additionally, it's possible for those with Hashimoto's, going through hyper phases to get the eye issues.
"Broken Thermostat".... your thyroid controls your body temperature, so if you have a broken thermostat, you have a broken thyroid. Just because thyroid levels fall into the "normal" category, doesn't mean they are normal for you.
If you'll post your current labs, maybe I can shed some light on what's going on.
I'd still recommend that you get all the antibody testing done that I recommended above. It's possible to have both, Graves and Hashimoto's and symptoms will depend on which one is dominate at a given time. Additionally, it's possible for those with Hashimoto's, going through hyper phases to get the eye issues.
Hi Barb,
Wow, you are very well versed on thyroid disease!! You have enlightened me in several areas.....thank you. The Grave's disease was diagnosed with clinical symptoms i.e. bulging eyes, 'the thyroid stare', extremely sensitive to light, very dry eyes, limited movement of the eyes due to the muscle tightness, inflammation behind the eye, blurring vision ultimately requiring to wear glasses and the fluid build up at night which resulted in a lot of tearing in the mornings, so much so that I would press on my lids in order to express all the fluid (like squeezing an orange) from my eyes in order to have clearer vision. When the hyperthyroid eventually went into remission with meds (it was stubborn at the beginning and surgery was threatened) the Graves took longer to subside. A year later, I still had inflammation and rigid eye muscles. The bulging is reduced and I am left with a lot of extra skin around my eyes now that there is not as much fluid. My eyes have taken on a distinct change in appearance. Before I was actually dx with the thyroid, several people remarked that I looked different and pointed out there was something different about my eyes.
I was at the doctor yesterday and my thyroid test results came back perfectly normal, in fact, smack in the middle. Yes, of course you are right, it is a T3 and not T5 for testing. I only had T3 and T4 done as that is all the health care will cover. But I was told by the specialist that I should have the uptake done once a year. This was my regular doctor that ordered the current tests. Even though the tests were absolutely normal, I still get the feeling that my thyroid is out of whack, symptoms being, hair loss, extremely dry skin, very little body hair, and fatigue. I can't say that I am sensitive to the cold because my hyperthyroid symptoms of intolerance to heat and sweating is still with me. These symptoms are so bothersome that they have affected my social life. In the summer I am basically a recluse. My doctor has tried hormone therapy and has sent me to specialists as it greatly impacts my life. My face drips with perspiration and it's very embarrassing when in public. Where there is any humidity whether it is 60 degrees or 80 degrees out, I am extremely uncomfortable with sweating and some degree of breathing difficulty. This happens even with indoor heat therefore I can be shopping in a store in the middle of winter and if there is no air circulating and the temperature is at a certain point, I will still suffer with these symptoms.
It has been agreed upon that this is hyperhidrosis but we are looking for a cause since it started with thyroid and continued afterwards. The closest thing I have come to for a reason was from a dermatologist who was willing to try botox in certain areas of my scalp, neck and face to see if that would help. One of his questions was......have you ever injured your back?, to which I replied no BUT almost everyone my age will suffer from some sort of lower back pain at some time. I do get lower back discomfort quite regularly and when my back hurts, I will begin to sweat. I have said this to several doctors and lay people thinking of course that this was very strange that it would initiate sweating. This dermatologist told me that there is a nerve that extends down the back that it's purpose is to help regulate body heat and that it is possible it was damaged by the thyroid. I was so happy to hear there was possibly a reason for this that I didn't really ask many questions. The other thing he said prior to asking about my back was that it sounded like I had a broken thermostat. Again I was so happy that someone was understanding the magnitude of how this was affecting me and he used the same phrase of 'broken thermostat' that I have used for years when trying to explain this heat problem.
So I really don't know what to make of it. I was really reaching when trying to blame the thyroid on my toes but I just overthought the fact that when you have hyperthyroid, you muscles and ligaments weaken at a fast rate and I was almost a year with symptoms before diagnosis. I was so weak that turning over in bed was difficult, climbing stairs was a real effort and my legs felt like cement blocks. All that has resolved now of course but I'm still reaching for a reason for these ugly toes and the sweating.
Yes, I do use a rubber apparatus that slips over all toes and separates them and also some toes aids that will pull the toes in the opposite direction and secure them with Velcro.
Thank you again for your input. I certainly appreciate it.
Colleen (gramzees)
Wow, you are very well versed on thyroid disease!! You have enlightened me in several areas.....thank you. The Grave's disease was diagnosed with clinical symptoms i.e. bulging eyes, 'the thyroid stare', extremely sensitive to light, very dry eyes, limited movement of the eyes due to the muscle tightness, inflammation behind the eye, blurring vision ultimately requiring to wear glasses and the fluid build up at night which resulted in a lot of tearing in the mornings, so much so that I would press on my lids in order to express all the fluid (like squeezing an orange) from my eyes in order to have clearer vision. When the hyperthyroid eventually went into remission with meds (it was stubborn at the beginning and surgery was threatened) the Graves took longer to subside. A year later, I still had inflammation and rigid eye muscles. The bulging is reduced and I am left with a lot of extra skin around my eyes now that there is not as much fluid. My eyes have taken on a distinct change in appearance. Before I was actually dx with the thyroid, several people remarked that I looked different and pointed out there was something different about my eyes.
I was at the doctor yesterday and my thyroid test results came back perfectly normal, in fact, smack in the middle. Yes, of course you are right, it is a T3 and not T5 for testing. I only had T3 and T4 done as that is all the health care will cover. But I was told by the specialist that I should have the uptake done once a year. This was my regular doctor that ordered the current tests. Even though the tests were absolutely normal, I still get the feeling that my thyroid is out of whack, symptoms being, hair loss, extremely dry skin, very little body hair, and fatigue. I can't say that I am sensitive to the cold because my hyperthyroid symptoms of intolerance to heat and sweating is still with me. These symptoms are so bothersome that they have affected my social life. In the summer I am basically a recluse. My doctor has tried hormone therapy and has sent me to specialists as it greatly impacts my life. My face drips with perspiration and it's very embarrassing when in public. Where there is any humidity whether it is 60 degrees or 80 degrees out, I am extremely uncomfortable with sweating and some degree of breathing difficulty. This happens even with indoor heat therefore I can be shopping in a store in the middle of winter and if there is no air circulating and the temperature is at a certain point, I will still suffer with these symptoms.
It has been agreed upon that this is hyperhidrosis but we are looking for a cause since it started with thyroid and continued afterwards. The closest thing I have come to for a reason was from a dermatologist who was willing to try botox in certain areas of my scalp, neck and face to see if that would help. One of his questions was......have you ever injured your back?, to which I replied no BUT almost everyone my age will suffer from some sort of lower back pain at some time. I do get lower back discomfort quite regularly and when my back hurts, I will begin to sweat. I have said this to several doctors and lay people thinking of course that this was very strange that it would initiate sweating. This dermatologist told me that there is a nerve that extends down the back that it's purpose is to help regulate body heat and that it is possible it was damaged by the thyroid. I was so happy to hear there was possibly a reason for this that I didn't really ask many questions. The other thing he said prior to asking about my back was that it sounded like I had a broken thermostat. Again I was so happy that someone was understanding the magnitude of how this was affecting me and he used the same phrase of 'broken thermostat' that I have used for years when trying to explain this heat problem.
So I really don't know what to make of it. I was really reaching when trying to blame the thyroid on my toes but I just overthought the fact that when you have hyperthyroid, you muscles and ligaments weaken at a fast rate and I was almost a year with symptoms before diagnosis. I was so weak that turning over in bed was difficult, climbing stairs was a real effort and my legs felt like cement blocks. All that has resolved now of course but I'm still reaching for a reason for these ugly toes and the sweating.
Yes, I do use a rubber apparatus that slips over all toes and separates them and also some toes aids that will pull the toes in the opposite direction and secure them with Velcro.
Thank you again for your input. I certainly appreciate it.
Colleen (gramzees)
COMMUNITY LEADER
Once you have an autoimmune disease, it's for life. Autoimmune thyroid conditions ultimately end up with the patient being hypo, because antibodies destroy the thyroid tissue, so it, eventually, can't produce any more hormones, or the thyroid ends up being removed or destroyed via RAI. Either way, you end up hypo.
On what basis were you diagnosed with Graves? There's another autoimmune thyroid disease called Hashimoto's, which is, typically, associated with hypothyroidism, but early stages of it are often characterized by periods of hyperthyroidism. Many people simply equate hyperthyroidism with Graves and that's not necessarily the case. All Graves Disease is hyperthyroidism, but not all hyperthyroidism is Graves.
I understand that in Canada, not everyone can get all the necessary testing. I'm quite familiar with T4, but not T5 - are you sure that shouldn't be T3? The thyroid produces 2 major hormones; those are T4 and T3, with most of the production being T4. The body can't use T4 directly; it must be converted to T3. The majority of conversion takes place in the liver, but some also takes place in other organs.
Of the total T4 in the body, the majority is bound by protein and is unavailable for use. The unbound (Free) T4 is that which is available to be converted to T3. Like T4, most of the T3 in the blood is bound by protein; the unbound (Free) portion is that which is available for use by the individual cells. You need, both, the Free T3 and Free T4, but often we find that Free T3 can't be done in Canada.
I will be very interested in your actual lab results.
You could ask your doctor to test for thyroid antibodies, just to make sure you really have Graves Disease. The antibodies you need are Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies (TPOab) and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (TGab) to confirm Hashimoto's. The definitive test for Graves Disease is Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulin (TSI)... If you never had that test and it was positive, you can't be sure you have Graves Disease. AND there is a very small part of the population who have both Graves and Hashimoto's.
It's good that you're seeing an ophthamologist for your eyes; that's essential.
I really can't answer your questions about the toe alignment, because I've never heard of a thyroid condition causing anything like that. Have you tried one of the little foam contraptions that you put your toes into when you polish your nails to keep them from touching each other? I'm sorry, I'm not sure what it's called, but I think it's a toe separator. It also has a tendency to help straighten toes. I haven't used mine for a long time, but it really does help to align my toes. Check with your doctor.
On what basis were you diagnosed with Graves? There's another autoimmune thyroid disease called Hashimoto's, which is, typically, associated with hypothyroidism, but early stages of it are often characterized by periods of hyperthyroidism. Many people simply equate hyperthyroidism with Graves and that's not necessarily the case. All Graves Disease is hyperthyroidism, but not all hyperthyroidism is Graves.
I understand that in Canada, not everyone can get all the necessary testing. I'm quite familiar with T4, but not T5 - are you sure that shouldn't be T3? The thyroid produces 2 major hormones; those are T4 and T3, with most of the production being T4. The body can't use T4 directly; it must be converted to T3. The majority of conversion takes place in the liver, but some also takes place in other organs.
Of the total T4 in the body, the majority is bound by protein and is unavailable for use. The unbound (Free) T4 is that which is available to be converted to T3. Like T4, most of the T3 in the blood is bound by protein; the unbound (Free) portion is that which is available for use by the individual cells. You need, both, the Free T3 and Free T4, but often we find that Free T3 can't be done in Canada.
I will be very interested in your actual lab results.
You could ask your doctor to test for thyroid antibodies, just to make sure you really have Graves Disease. The antibodies you need are Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies (TPOab) and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (TGab) to confirm Hashimoto's. The definitive test for Graves Disease is Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulin (TSI)... If you never had that test and it was positive, you can't be sure you have Graves Disease. AND there is a very small part of the population who have both Graves and Hashimoto's.
It's good that you're seeing an ophthamologist for your eyes; that's essential.
I really can't answer your questions about the toe alignment, because I've never heard of a thyroid condition causing anything like that. Have you tried one of the little foam contraptions that you put your toes into when you polish your nails to keep them from touching each other? I'm sorry, I'm not sure what it's called, but I think it's a toe separator. It also has a tendency to help straighten toes. I haven't used mine for a long time, but it really does help to align my toes. Check with your doctor.
Thank you for your reply Barb. I was not aware that you have Grave's disease for life. Once my thyroid was under control the endo dismissed me saying that thyroid problems will rise again but likely as hypothyroid.
I attend an optometrist on a regular basis for my eyes because she still sees inflammation and elevated pressures behind my eyes. My eyes have taken on a definite appearance since all this began but once the thyroid was regulated, the bulging did go down. I am now left with bothersome eyes with them being dry, blurry, and mostly uncomfortable. I just saw an ophthalmologist for elevated pressures over the marker for glaucoma. They are a little stumped as I don't present like a regular glaucoma patient.
I just had thyroid levels done a week ago and will get the results likely this week and I will post them. The problem is that my regular doctor follows the Ministry of Health regulations (I live in Canada) state only a T4 and T5 will be paid for and an uptake will only be done if there is a problem. It was the uptake that showed my initial problem. I have many symptoms of hypothyroid but my levels have previously been normal.
Regarding the toe alignment. In my research, I have read that hyperthyroid will cause weakness in the muscles, tendons and ligaments and that includes the feet. So, I wondered if the weakness allowed for the collapse which now has caused a deformity and a lot of pain. As I said, I am reaching for anything that will make sense and I will certainly access the site you provided. It just really bothers me that the professionals are shrugging their shoulders stating they have never seen this before and have no answers as to what to do.
Thanks again for you response.
Colleen (gramzees)
I attend an optometrist on a regular basis for my eyes because she still sees inflammation and elevated pressures behind my eyes. My eyes have taken on a definite appearance since all this began but once the thyroid was regulated, the bulging did go down. I am now left with bothersome eyes with them being dry, blurry, and mostly uncomfortable. I just saw an ophthalmologist for elevated pressures over the marker for glaucoma. They are a little stumped as I don't present like a regular glaucoma patient.
I just had thyroid levels done a week ago and will get the results likely this week and I will post them. The problem is that my regular doctor follows the Ministry of Health regulations (I live in Canada) state only a T4 and T5 will be paid for and an uptake will only be done if there is a problem. It was the uptake that showed my initial problem. I have many symptoms of hypothyroid but my levels have previously been normal.
Regarding the toe alignment. In my research, I have read that hyperthyroid will cause weakness in the muscles, tendons and ligaments and that includes the feet. So, I wondered if the weakness allowed for the collapse which now has caused a deformity and a lot of pain. As I said, I am reaching for anything that will make sense and I will certainly access the site you provided. It just really bothers me that the professionals are shrugging their shoulders stating they have never seen this before and have no answers as to what to do.
Thanks again for you response.
Colleen (gramzees)
COMMUNITY LEADER
There's a new, active leader in the orthopedics forum; maybe you could ask your question on that forum and we can both see if we can help you... you can access that forum via the following link:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Orthopedics/show/60
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Orthopedics/show/60
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Are you on any medication for Graves Disease, currently?
Do you have any current thyroid blood test results that you could post, with references to give us a better of your thyroid status?
While my endo says that hypothyroidism can cause neuropathy, I've never heard of a thyroid condition actually causing deformities in anyone. That sounds more like a bone issue, but I'd never say it absolutely couldn't be caused by Graves Disease.
I would contend, though, that if this "is" thyroid related, even with no other thyroid related symptoms, your Graves Disease is not in remission.
Have you been tested for vitamin D deficiency? Vitamin D is necessary for proper absorption and use of calcium in the body; both are necessary for proper bone formation and maintenance. Vitamin D deficiency in children can cause bone deformities; not sure if it can in adults or not, but that might be something to check out. Magnesium is a also necessary for proper use of calcium.