Continued from a 15year old boy.

[Mangee]

The world is built on deception. Everywhere you go you are being deceived. The drug store, furniture store, car lot, grocery store, on and on and on. The so called, "SALES EVENT," is a tip off as to the kind of mark up these stores have on their goods. "All goods well below inventory price." They are willing to take a hit, a loss of revenue in order to get your business. B__S__, is the only way to describe it. They want you to think that they are losing money by giving you bargains etc. The philosophy of the majority of conglomerates and the like is,"Do unto others." Oil, for instance is being pushed to higher levels by Wall street traders who are trying to squeeze every last dollar out of John Q.Public and the oil producers along with the oil companies are rubbing their hands in glee as the money rolls in.  A perfect example of being used is the pharmaceutical companies is this. A pill which costs approximately two dollars and up has the same thing in a placebo for about 10 to fifteen cents. The pills do the same thing yet have trouble getting the Government "Watchdogs? " to give it authentication for public consumption. I know I am straying but what is here is the cousin to the previous posts we sent back and forth. It is about things that will ever remain the same due to the underhanded, under the table, wink, wink deals that are going on in most beaureaucratic back rooms as wel as the government agencies that are supposed to be monitoring them. Lobbyists who fight , not for the common man, but for the wealthy and the wealthier are ever demanding,more. It is not however, in any way shape nor form similar to Charles Dickens ,"Oliver," who wanted more because of hunger. The hunger for a lobbyist and his clients is to fatten the already obscene, bulging bank account. To the,"Fat Cat," the word "Enough,"doesn't exist. We are broadening our horizons with these posts because as we all know, one thing leads to another and one word can change the post from hither to thither, yon and beyond.

[mrwjd]

The biblical view of man left to his own devices is a bleak one--such a man "is like the beasts that perish" (Psalm 49:20), "[f]or the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten" (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

Apparently the subject is further addressed in Ecclesiastes 9.11, but only in the jewish edition.

[lovepat906]

Only if one relies/depends on an evangelist... or an organization for that matter.

[mrwjd]

"does not choosing the  God- path lead to a sense of peace and inner happiness that is not dependent on circumstances that are not controlled by God or man?"
___

Ah, indeed.  That is the real gift of religion--and the real danger.  The peace and joy one gains from one’s personal religious experience may be ephemeral, but it is not imaginary—pheromenes, adrenalin, serotonin are all very real.  The amazing talent of the evangelist is the ability to harness your personal high and use it to fuel the growth of his own power and wealth.

[Savas]

I'll have you know sophism is the height of philosophical rhetoric! Socrates gave 'em a bad rap. He was just as guilty of sophism as the sophists. Politics, politics, politics...:)

The difference is God exists. Or doesn't, depending on which route you go.  How does it effect our lives? Not much. There'd be no point in worshiping such a God. It would be like worshipping a summer storm, or a Quasar.
Of course, he'd be eligible for book club membership, a driver's license...etc... if he chose. Being a real entity and all that.

Lovepat, I'd be interested if you can find out where that verse it. It sounds familiar and intriguing.

Are you saying that (not God Path) peace and happiness can be all emcompassing, regardless of God or Man?  (It's that triple negative, mon... I want to be sure what you're saying and triple negatives throw off my chi...like, y'know? fer shere!

[lovepat906]

I believe there is a verse in Ecclesiastes (sp?) that says "God created man and left him to his own devices"...
What if the free will choice is to ask for God's protection, help or intersession?  
Another thought is- providing example is an action that does not require compliance. People choose to emulate those who epitomize the "mind of God"  - or not. Results can be debated but, in general,  does not choosing the  God- path lead to a sense of peace and inner happiness that is not dependent on circumstances that are not controlled by God or man?

[mrwjd]

"Of course, you can always say "God set the clockwork universe in motion and placed humanity down at the beginning of its path. What we do from there is our choice, according to free will. He doesn't step in and take action because to do so would be to corrupt the grand experiment".
_____

And thus is the discussion made academic and the arguments reduced to sophistry.

And the distinction, if any, between this god and no god?