Continued from a 15year old boy.

[Mangee]

The world is built on deception. Everywhere you go you are being deceived. The drug store, furniture store, car lot, grocery store, on and on and on. The so called, "SALES EVENT," is a tip off as to the kind of mark up these stores have on their goods. "All goods well below inventory price." They are willing to take a hit, a loss of revenue in order to get your business. B__S__, is the only way to describe it. They want you to think that they are losing money by giving you bargains etc. The philosophy of the majority of conglomerates and the like is,"Do unto others." Oil, for instance is being pushed to higher levels by Wall street traders who are trying to squeeze every last dollar out of John Q.Public and the oil producers along with the oil companies are rubbing their hands in glee as the money rolls in.  A perfect example of being used is the pharmaceutical companies is this. A pill which costs approximately two dollars and up has the same thing in a placebo for about 10 to fifteen cents. The pills do the same thing yet have trouble getting the Government "Watchdogs? " to give it authentication for public consumption. I know I am straying but what is here is the cousin to the previous posts we sent back and forth. It is about things that will ever remain the same due to the underhanded, under the table, wink, wink deals that are going on in most beaureaucratic back rooms as wel as the government agencies that are supposed to be monitoring them. Lobbyists who fight , not for the common man, but for the wealthy and the wealthier are ever demanding,more. It is not however, in any way shape nor form similar to Charles Dickens ,"Oliver," who wanted more because of hunger. The hunger for a lobbyist and his clients is to fatten the already obscene, bulging bank account. To the,"Fat Cat," the word "Enough,"doesn't exist. We are broadening our horizons with these posts because as we all know, one thing leads to another and one word can change the post from hither to thither, yon and beyond.

[mrwjd]

Sorry, I misread Ecclesiasticus for Ecclesiastes--No, those quotes aren't familiar to me.  I did scout around a little, and I believe they are definitely before the fall--I gather free will was not held in as high esteem afterward.

The biblical view of man left to his own devices is a bleak one--left to his own devices man "is like the beasts that perish" (Psalm 49:20), "[f]or the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten" (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

There's some more stuff about how left to his own devices (which may or may not be synonymous with free will), man dies like cattle, and there is no life remaining in him, but if he does things their way, there's some (primitive form of) afterlife.  

I'll see if I can find a bible around here somewhere (I think we had a mormon bible, but I may have thrown it out) and read those through--it's not so easy on the 'net because every verse you look up, somebody wrote a page about, and then you have to go searching around for the next verse.

[Mangee]

The line the government stands idly by.......should read.....The governments stands idly by and says they have the right to free speech, are they ignorant of the fact that they are assisting in perpretating a gigantic fraud.

[Mangee]

Whither away. How inconsistent are we who pretend to know all. In our haste to prove the other guy is wrong, we overlook the fact that we too may be wrong. We wring our hands and cry,"Foul," when we are found in our own mistakes. Our wrath echoes through the ages at being misrepresented by all levels of government and religions. We level a tirade at all who disagree with our views regardless even if they are right. Yet, when an evil such as the electronic evengelist emerges and begins to suck the lifeblood out of the ignorant who can ill afford it, we stand by and shout,"SHAME." We point the finger and even call on the powers that be to step in and close them down. This, to no avail.The government stands idly by and says they have the right to free speech , never realizing that they are perpretating a gigantic fraud. There is no challenge to the so called healing powers of such as Peter popoff. Where is the ,"Come Peter Popoff, I have a man here who has been crippled for years. Prove to us that you indeed have the power to heal him, otherwise close the doors to your ministry. Will this happen,? I think not. Where is the watchdog that is supposed to defend those who are being cheated by fraudulent claims?

[mrwjd]

Ecclesiasticus XVii :
"God created man, and left him in the hand of his own counsel"
“In the beginning He (God) created man and left him in the hands of will,”
____

I don't seem to recognize this out of context.  I'm intrigued by reference to "created" and "beginning," wondering if these verses appear before the fall from grace.  Do you happen to know?

Just idly wondering, not a big deal.

[lovepat906]

There are various translations but I believe the original citation is from
Ecclesiasticus XVii :
"God created man, and left him in the hand of his own counsel"
“In the beginning He (God) created man and left him in the hands of will,”
Seems to be a confirmation of free will than a description of abandonment.  
Free will choices can create negative consequences.  Ecclesiastes7:29-30 "I find that God made man simple;man's complex problems are of his own devising."  Free choices can be made that are in sync with "the good".- what I refer to as a "Godly Path". Making those choices does not protect from natural or man created disaster. But perhaps gives one the inner balance necessary to cope?

[mrwjd]

Thanks for the edit.  :-P  

The difference, I believe, is that the fever of mystical adoration of this administration has cooled.  Their bad luck, they haven't had 2,000 years to solidify their advantage.