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723012 tn?1230867400

Clean or not

Hello I have a question for all of you and I am asking that you please be 100% honest where you think it will upset someone or not. I am on methadone and clean from all other drugs. All I take is Methadone one time a day. I am told that I am now clean but a lot of people look at it as not being clean. Not Methadone has saved my life, family, homes and self respect etc.... I do not get high on methadone and can't abuse the program. So my question to you is am I clean or not in your honest answer PLEASE
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Avatar universal
they way i look at it is if you need to rely on something to keep you going in life your not clean.  i would rather be on methadone than anything else.  but would be nice if you coudl get off it and never think about it or anything?  wouldnt it?
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I dont have to wait I already know that the Trams are bad news.  But for the record, I am full aware of what Trams do, can do and the withdrawals are obvious..Ive already experienced them and continue too every morning.  As far as the anti-dep that is exactly why I am taking them in the first place and belive it or not..my doctor prescribed them to me, or I should say allows me to take them.  I went to him to get off them when I barely started.  I found this website and it scared me so much I wanted off.  Went to him to help me with withdrawal and hopefully aid me with a plan..actually went to him because he is licensed for Sub prescription.  He proceeded to tell me that sub was too strong to prescribe for me on trams.  that they were "harmless" and that he felt that any withdrawal I had was mostly mild compared to others. He felt..and this is his own words.."I would feel ok you taking more and for alot longer"???  Well, when he said that to me who thrives on anything that makes me feel better (history of long term alcholhol abuse) that rang magic to my ears.  So, I asked him if he would prescirbe me more as I was out (...remember I went to him to help me w/withdrawals because I was out)..was not planning on taking more and honestly thought he would agree.  He did not.

I have been against anti-dep's for years.  During my alchohol recovery always thought that was just another drug to "get by".  Unless you could safely take those forever they are just a crutch.  Read all the side effects and withdrawals on those..those too are not pretty and can have as nasty withdrawals as narcotics.  

Well, I analzied after all these years still feeling depressed and lack of energy while sober why not try it as an anti-dep.  And it has worked for the most part.  But now I feel that the normal doseage is not good enough and I absolutely hate the mornings.

So yes, I want to get off these and have decided to taper. I agree the withdrawals are horrible but don't know what else to do but just taper as cold turkey is not what I have the energy for.  But if this is so bad, then why do other people take anti-dep's to help...for those that get by..its only a matter of time those will wear down and /or cause more depression and weakness down the road.  Anyway, I actually believe they are way stronger than even you suggested.  Why else can they have worse withdrawals then meth.  

Anyway, thanks for the heads up..but fear isnt going to help me now.  I just need to start the wind down process.  
Helpful - 0
228936 tn?1249094248
Yelsea, sorry to tell you but suboxin is addictive. In many most where poeple are maintained by sub, I think most would be better of on low dose methadone. The problem I have with clinics is they give sky high doses and the criminal element. Weather we think someone is clean or not on methadone or sub isn't important. it's symantics. I don't think a person is really clean on these drugs but it doesn't matter. If a person is taking no other "get high " drugs they are doing much better they are doing well and are on the road to being drug free.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
It is personal preference and personal perspective. I am actively involved in other's recovery from many types of addictions and I can firmly attest that sometimes it takes an evil to replace another until that person is ready to become "clean".  I'd like to say you are "clean" when you are 100% clean from any types of drugs or alcohol but based on my knowledge and experience helping others and seeing others go through what they have to go through, each personal struggle, well, I'd be going against what I've witnessed.

I've seen it all, street bums down and out trying to kill themselves for a hookup, people strung out on heroin, I've seen people that have seen the shadows of a gruesome agonizing death but are with us the very next day again to defeat thier demons and the demons that addiction feeds, hours, days, weeks of agony of physical and mental dependency during a W/D process and I beleive that if it truly works for you, then it's 100% worth taking an extra step to become clean from all burdens of an addiction.
Helpful - 0
724471 tn?1237914000
I said not sure because I'm in the middle on this one. On one hand, it's a prescribed medication that you use as directed. On the other, Methadone is addicting, and your dosage is going to keep going up your whole life. I didn't know it was even still prescribed, it's had a lot of bad media coverage. My brother was on heroin for 16 years and then got off it using Methadone. Long story short, he was denied for a refill because of a data mistake by the clinic and "had" to relapse. I quote "had" because obviously, we always have a choice, but he was on a very high dosage and got incredibley sick when he was denied. He is on Suboxin now, which I think is a lot better. It is non-addictive, he never has to up his dosage, he doesn't get sick if he can't get it. I would recomend checking into it if you are concerned.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I agree with most have said here...ONLY YOU know...I think the main thing addicts want is the high, at least me..you said you are not getting high from it, so be it...you are not doing the addicive things you probably did before this...If u have a GOOD doctor, I think you are doing ok...After all, who are we to judge you...We have to get clean FIRST of all...SECOND we have to do what's best for us.to stay clean....Some of those things may not be best for others, but may be ok for you...So you stay strong, and listen to your doctor, do the program, get some aftercare....All i think that matters is YOU, being honest with yourself , your doctor, etc...EVERYONE else doesn't matter...
Helpful - 0
511524 tn?1266349934
your tramadol use may seem under control and a benefit to you, but soon enough in a few more months you are going to be begging for mercy..opioids are nothing to mess around with...tramadol though not a very potent opioid at all only a little stronger than aspirin:), and comparable to 60mgs of codeine can lead to some very severe physical wd's that are no joy ride, and tramadol also acts as a rapidly short acting anti-depressant, so messing with the seritonin levels you are playing with fire, wds are ansty and the longer and higher the dose the worse and worse it gets day by day...alot of ppl like myself need methadone or suboxone either indefinitely or until were fully ready to get off our opiate DOC(mine being Heroin/Oxycontin), and I know without the help of a long lasting opioid that doesnt get me really high but stops any physical wd and the cravings then I can lead a productive, stable, and structured life...it is a great mitivating factor in my life but i am medically supervised and on a treatment program because i have already come to realize that i am powerless over any drug, opiates in perticular, but any of them, xanax, valium, coke, alcohol, cannabis, X, etc..I will always be ana ddict and its a daily battle, but as long as you stick with your treatment plan and are spiritually happy with yourself, loving yourself then you are clean and in recovery
Helpful - 0
657036 tn?1229923556
when people who don't have a history of substance abuse take drugs prescribed to them to aid them in whatever way, they aren't considered 'dirty' so i think it's all just stigma.
Helpful - 0
228936 tn?1249094248
I think methadone is a usefull tool in recovery but most that are on it abuse it. I was on and off it for years and it worked very well for the first 2 years then after that like many, I got bored and started using other drugs. This is very common in clinics, people who are on done that smoke crack, are drunk, or in my case take benzos are the majority. You and some others are doing the methadone program the way it was intended, methadone only. As far as methadone or sub saving someone's life, I don't think that drugs save a dug addicts life. I wouldn't say that someone on done or sub is clean and this is an overdone question or a pointless case of symantics. What's important is that your life is getting better and hopefully you are moving to be drug free. all the best
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I did want to add I have a friend 3 years and ongoing using Sub.  I consider her clean and sober.  She attends meetings regularly, works her program, has a sponsor, does commitments, sees her internist regularly and is totally honest with him/her.  What else can she do?  I call that sober living.

She tapered from a very serious, bad drug habit of around 30+ opiates a day (I also believed she injected them for a more intense high)...when she finally went to detox they put her on sub but she was on a taper program. She followed it to a tee and at the end she went into serious withdrawal.  Went to the emergency room and spoke with a addiction specialist to be sure that noone at the emergency room would put her back on drugs since few understand withdrwals.  This person put her back on sub and said that even with the taper program "she" needed to be on it longer.  Something about her receptors were "damaged".  I don't know when is long enough. I am sure she will withdrawal again ..she says that in 24 hrs. without her next dose she feels the withdrawals.  Her current internist said to not worry or compare with others..she well may be on Sub for life in her situation. She is tiny, very thin and obviously her receptors don't react like others..or she doesnt tolerate like others.

At any rate, I believe she is clean and sober.  She has chosen to not tell anyone.  She told me out of confidence and I highly respect her.  Everyone is different.  Everyone has their own program. If you consicence is clean then you are.
Helpful - 0
303824 tn?1294871401
I'm on sub and consider myself "Clean" because I AM CLEAN from a Norco (40 to 60 a day) habit. The sub saved my life as methadone has saved yours. There are people on here that would argue the point of being clean while on sub or methadone, but none of that matters. We don't all agree on everything, otherwise life would be boring. You are on the right track and don't let anyone make you feel bad about it.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I think that using methadone or suboxone puts you well on your way to being sober and its a definate huge LEAP in the right direction.  I do not look down on anyone using them -- whatever you have to do on your path in life to become drug free.  I agree its a matter of being sober AND not addicted and being sober and addicted.  I spent over 2 years on suboxone.  I can say for sure the first year and a half I absolutely felt that I was clean and sober, the last 6 months I felt sober but not clean cause I was badly addicted to the subxone.  I was clean but still drug dependent.  I am off everything now 120+ days and feel truly sober and drug free.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Why do you take Methadone?  To me it also depends on that.  You say it saved your life.  How can I make an educated opinion when I have no idea why you take it.  Most drugs we get hooked on is because it makes us better people (so we think).  I went to my new doctor to get off of Tramadol.  He told me that he didnt care if I stayed on it.  At the time it was working wonders for me. The benefits outweighted the side effects. Only side effect to me was that I had horrible mornings ..or basically with drawals.  When the drug leaves your system you feel like a worn out wash rag.  A couple pills later though I felt good.  Now after 4.5 months on it..I can't see much a difference to when I wasnt taking it.  I need to take more to make myself function to the degree 2 pills did in the beginning.

So for me, I am guessing this is not good for me.  If it was good for me, I wouldnt need to take more.  But I struggle with this too. Have always had an underlying depression so my doctor agreed if this makes me feel better and as long as I don't go over 6 a day he said it was fine. He is also under the false impression the withdrawals are minimal.  They are not.  I dont think I am addicted as the withdrawals were immediate..I see it as more a side effect.  BUT...to answer your question, it would depend on why you use the drug.  Trams dont make my life..I see them as making it better.  But now I am not so sure.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
i don't think the people on this forum whom put down methadone use are putting down the people who use it.  they are just speaking from their own experience of how hard it is to kick this drug.  i have tried many times and failed, and am now trying again.  regardless of whether you get high from it or not, you are still enslaved to a substance.  period.  and this is not about pain managment, either.  it is simply about addiction.

Kova
Helpful - 0
633768 tn?1232834261
IT IS TOTALLY UP TO YOU HOW YOU FEEL IF YOUR  COMFORTBLE WITH YOUR SITIONTION THAN YOUR FINE. WERE NOT HERE TO JUDE YOU BUT TO HELP YOU. GOOD LUCK  :)
Helpful - 0
683892 tn?1231212999
It's the difference between being sober and being drug-free. If you're not getting high, then you're sober. But you're not drug-free.It's still prolonging the addiction in my mind. It's safer than the alternative, but if you are feeling guilt over it then may be something to work on discontinuing. Anyway, that's my two cents(I don't even understand that phrase) good luck!
Helpful - 0
511524 tn?1266349934
the three things are very important to all the NA meetings ive attended Ive been to 15 different churches and groups and talking about treatment has always been the same, you dont tell anyone unless you want to be looked down upon by some
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
well, i am off to put the kids to bed
but i will tell you about my last year on methadone
i was heading for renal failure, my body had becomed somewhat atrophied, i was unable to get out of bed to shower or use the bathroom without a walker
keep in mind i was 28 years old
one day my husband (who was also on methadone) hit a parked car and almost killed my child
that day i said, no more methadone
a couple of weeks later i was in icu
i hate talking about that last year
one day i hope to post a journal or two
i was 18 when i got on methadone
its my drug of choice, i like herion but methadone was easy to get and cheap
but anyways,,,,kids are calling
i will add that my clean date is 8/23/04
there is life after dope
xo
Helpful - 0
511524 tn?1266349934
thats good to here, message me your stroy soemtime...i definitely believe NA, group, and therapy meetings are crucial in recovering and staying clean, but the hiding of being in treatment bothers me, and not all of the 12 steps I follow exactly, but thats whatspecial about NA is that YOU make up a treatment plan that works for you, you jsut keep hsuh hush about treatment issues....i do love hearing others experiences and the positive info and the negative sides of things, i really believe that regardless if your in a suboxone treatment program or methadone treatment that group meetings where theya re all in some sort of treatment is teh msot helpful in recovery. you can get down to teh core issues of exactly waht cravigns for what drugs youa re ahving, etc...thanks mtgoat911-christos24
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
christos, just read your bio, saw you just started methadone
that certainly explains a few things
just wanted to let you know that i was on methadone for 10 years
and i could relate to your story
xo
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
i attended na meetings on matinence drugs
i talked about it to people, found many who had been there
i did not talk about it in meetings, because it is agiasnt na traditions
these drugs, along with psyc. meds are considered "outside issues"
and when i do refer to them i say my "outside issues" are bothering me
but i am not the type to get drug specific in meetings
to me, its not what you were addicted to
its all about what you want to do about it
sometimes when i share my store i do refer to methadone as liquid hand cuffs
but i never go into a whole lot of using stories or specifics
usually stick with my experience
what happened, why i got clean and what its like now
there is nothing sad about this thread
the theraputic value of one addict helping another is without parallel
xo

Helpful - 0
511524 tn?1266349934
IT DOES NOT MATTER IF A MAJORITY THINK YOU ARE DIRTY, YOU ARE NOT TAPERING OFF YOUr STREET DRUG OR DOC, YOU ARE NOT RELAPSING, YOU ARE ON A MEDICALLY SUPERVISED TREATMENT PLAN AND STICKING TO JusT THAT, YOU SHOULD BE PROUD OF YOURSELF AND CELEBRATE YOUR RECOVERY SO FAR!!!...people need to do some research on this matter, some of these post and poll answers are far fetched and absolutely outrageous....wow, america..wow..THIS IS SAD-christos
Helpful - 0
511524 tn?1266349934
along with avisg, regardless of what the poll determines as far as percentages go, you are clean if you are sticking to YOUR treatment plan, not taking any other mood altering substances, i mean ANY others, even alcohol, marijuana, anything..if you are taking just the methadone alotted to you daily properly, then you are clean and in recovery..you are doing a great job and should be extremely proud regardless if someone believes you arent clean because of methadone, they have different skewed opinions and need to keep their mouths to themselves...the question reminded me of NAmeetings..if you are on suboxone treatment or MMT(methadone treatment) you are supposed to keep that "hush hush", and not tell anyone about it in the open and alone, cuz you are considered not clean and considered "using"..its bogus and sad, they want you to get off pain killers or H, but if your in treatment they shun you away, its silly and ridiculous and anyone in recovery should be aware of that nonsense, even funnier, a meeting i was in, someone severely broke theyre arm was already on suboxone treatment, apotent pain killer, but was questioning cuz of the "pain" whether he should go along with the doctors and be put on ms contin(morphine) and norcos(hydrocodone) and all the members werre ok with that because it was prescribed and medically supervised...ISNT THAT WHAT METHADONE CLINICS ARE?! Lets jsut say I was just a little outraged-youll know if you are clean or not, its how you feel inside, and youll know it...christos
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
my family hated me on methadone, infact i lost custody of my childen as a result of methaodne and "other" matinence drugs
i personally was unable to function on them, not like i can clean
but thats my experience
when i did get off mmt and ".............", my husband decided that he would stay on mmt
i got sick of watching him nod out, and eventually had to remove myself from the situation
your family knows you better than we do, if they are noticing that you are not clean, maybe they have  a better perspective
you stated that all is well, you mentioned that methadone has saved your family, yet your other post shares that your family has a problem with you on the methadone
you also talk about methadone restoring your self-esteem, but you are on here feeling some shame
not trying to get in your face over all this
i have been a part of several interventions my own and others
delt with many mmt patients, including myself, the inability to see reality can be damaged by matinence drugs
sometimes its hard to see the truth......even in recovery
so do not beat yourself up
you know your parents love you, even if they think you are dirty, ask a few other people who know you AND are not using, listen to them
and ask yourself
"what do i want?"
xo

Helpful - 0
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