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Having to withdraw from Klonopin, direct taper-diazepam or ??
This is not a real case of substance abuse since I took the drug as prescribed, but I cannot find a better place so I am posting this question here.
I have been on the drug for about 10 years, for over 5 years at 2 mg a day, taken in the evening.
Prescribed as a muscle relaxant and for neuropathic pain but that is no longer an issue. Dependency is.
This drug always had some unusual properties and paradoxical or troublesome side effects, but I could tolerate them easily. No longer.
The past few years my health (physical, and as a consequence ´mental´ too) has declined seriously and it´d incredibly hard to either tolerate or taper the drug. I simply took it too long.
Typically, this drug is either tapered directly or one switches to diazepam. I did try diazepam, and for me it is a completely different drug. Short acting too. (´ half life´ vs ´duration of action´)
Diazepam was hard to tolerate, and I know it will take forever to get it out of the body if I would start a taper.
Doctors have been no help, on the contrary. In my experience they generally don´t have a clue. This drug is not commonly prescribed here.
What are my options, really ?
One the one hand there is the ´taper the drug directly´ school and on the other hand there is the ´Ashton cult´, to put it not so subtly.
I have read the Ashton manual, the promotional material. But the fact is that the ´duration of action´ of diazepam is shorter than clonazepam/Klonopin. The half life of both drugs is long.
The ´clonazepam vs. diazepam´ section of the Ashton manual is mostly nonsense. She did not taper people off clonazepam in her clinic. For me, all benzodiazepines are NOT the same.
Typically, people either taper the drug directly or they switch to diazepam. But what if both are problematic ?
I believe that my problems are partly due to some of clonazepam´s unusual properties (e.g. binding to receptors, serotonin). It´s also the case that I cannot split the dose in an afternoon dose and an evening dose.
I have no theoretical framework beyond the ´Ashton method´. Which is at least partly incorect.
Suggestions, advice ? At one point I considered a ´C-T´ with carbamazepine, but at this point that might just make things worse.
I have been on the drug for about 10 years, for over 5 years at 2 mg a day, taken in the evening.
Prescribed as a muscle relaxant and for neuropathic pain but that is no longer an issue. Dependency is.
This drug always had some unusual properties and paradoxical or troublesome side effects, but I could tolerate them easily. No longer.
The past few years my health (physical, and as a consequence ´mental´ too) has declined seriously and it´d incredibly hard to either tolerate or taper the drug. I simply took it too long.
Typically, this drug is either tapered directly or one switches to diazepam. I did try diazepam, and for me it is a completely different drug. Short acting too. (´ half life´ vs ´duration of action´)
Diazepam was hard to tolerate, and I know it will take forever to get it out of the body if I would start a taper.
Doctors have been no help, on the contrary. In my experience they generally don´t have a clue. This drug is not commonly prescribed here.
What are my options, really ?
One the one hand there is the ´taper the drug directly´ school and on the other hand there is the ´Ashton cult´, to put it not so subtly.
I have read the Ashton manual, the promotional material. But the fact is that the ´duration of action´ of diazepam is shorter than clonazepam/Klonopin. The half life of both drugs is long.
The ´clonazepam vs. diazepam´ section of the Ashton manual is mostly nonsense. She did not taper people off clonazepam in her clinic. For me, all benzodiazepines are NOT the same.
Typically, people either taper the drug directly or they switch to diazepam. But what if both are problematic ?
I believe that my problems are partly due to some of clonazepam´s unusual properties (e.g. binding to receptors, serotonin). It´s also the case that I cannot split the dose in an afternoon dose and an evening dose.
I have no theoretical framework beyond the ´Ashton method´. Which is at least partly incorect.
Suggestions, advice ? At one point I considered a ´C-T´ with carbamazepine, but at this point that might just make things worse.
I have absolutely no idea how I could consult a doc in the USA. believe me, I have tried to find a way. A long time ago, telemedicine was supposed to take off ... not so much.
If you know a way, please let me know.
Generally, face-to-face contact is required.
Why I can't taper Klonopin in small amounts ? Too complicated to explain, it would take too long, I don't really know ...
I'll give an example from the past. I used to exercise intensely and I used to be muscular. (I have been on a higher dose of clonazepam for some time in the past, but that is another story). When I went below either 2 mg or 1.75 mg (I don't remember), exercise started to cause major problems. A dramatically slowed subjective perception of time after I had exercised ('time freezing'), a dramatically increased threshold for falling asleep (that is, no sleep), skin issues. At later attempts, rapid muscle loss (and I have very little left). This seems to be dose-dependent. No ' let the body adapt to lower doses if I taper slowly and continue to live normally'.
This is a very physical drug. The way I function these days and the way my body is built is terrible.Exhaustion and lack of energy is not unknown to me. I know I would not have these issues with tapering if I was still healthy. I would be able to 'break through it'.
Now, I have a GP who believes it is 'mental' at this point in time ... so no help there, even a referral to a psychiatrist that I accepted led nowhere 'back to the GP, it's just stopping benzos'.
This drug seems to disrupt normal neurological and hormonal functioning, at least at this point in time. (at one point I asked for a referral to an endocrinologist, it was refused)
So I'm looking for a way to deal with some of the unusual properties of the drug to taper, or a different drug to taper. Something like that.
If you know a way, please let me know.
Generally, face-to-face contact is required.
Why I can't taper Klonopin in small amounts ? Too complicated to explain, it would take too long, I don't really know ...
I'll give an example from the past. I used to exercise intensely and I used to be muscular. (I have been on a higher dose of clonazepam for some time in the past, but that is another story). When I went below either 2 mg or 1.75 mg (I don't remember), exercise started to cause major problems. A dramatically slowed subjective perception of time after I had exercised ('time freezing'), a dramatically increased threshold for falling asleep (that is, no sleep), skin issues. At later attempts, rapid muscle loss (and I have very little left). This seems to be dose-dependent. No ' let the body adapt to lower doses if I taper slowly and continue to live normally'.
This is a very physical drug. The way I function these days and the way my body is built is terrible.Exhaustion and lack of energy is not unknown to me. I know I would not have these issues with tapering if I was still healthy. I would be able to 'break through it'.
Now, I have a GP who believes it is 'mental' at this point in time ... so no help there, even a referral to a psychiatrist that I accepted led nowhere 'back to the GP, it's just stopping benzos'.
This drug seems to disrupt normal neurological and hormonal functioning, at least at this point in time. (at one point I asked for a referral to an endocrinologist, it was refused)
So I'm looking for a way to deal with some of the unusual properties of the drug to taper, or a different drug to taper. Something like that.
Yes, that is what I'm suggesting. I'm not saying come to the US but try to find a way to consult with a doctor here who is more familiar with Klonopin. I don't know how you would go about it but anything is possible with the internet.
You could also contact the manufacturer who may be able to guide you.
Tell me why you can't taper Klonopin in small amounts.
You could also contact the manufacturer who may be able to guide you.
Tell me why you can't taper Klonopin in small amounts.
You're not suggesting that I try to find a doc on the other side of the Atlantic, or are you ?
I don't live in the USA but in a small country in Europe, there is a shortage of doctors and the quality is mediocre in general at best.
I don't have a doc who 'has the answers'. Being unable to get help with problems caused by medications is not uncommon.
I don't have a doc who 'has the answers'. Being unable to get help with problems caused by medications is not uncommon.
Are you unable to drop by 0.1mg at a time?
Connie- My "cutting the dose in half" comment was not directed at you. The OP made a statement about half the dose not having half the effect...
Maybe there's someone hiding around here that has some other ideas but, really, your situation is unusual and complicated and most likely requires a medical expert. As I suggested: try speaking with a pharmacist about compounding the Klonopin for you and find a doctor in the US who has more familiarity with this drug.
Connie- My "cutting the dose in half" comment was not directed at you. The OP made a statement about half the dose not having half the effect...
Maybe there's someone hiding around here that has some other ideas but, really, your situation is unusual and complicated and most likely requires a medical expert. As I suggested: try speaking with a pharmacist about compounding the Klonopin for you and find a doctor in the US who has more familiarity with this drug.
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