This is Harder than I Thought

[T2112]

Around a month ago, New Years, I posted that I was going to quit 20+ painkiller (codeine, butabitol) that I had been taking for 10 years or so.  I was able to get down to 6 per day and that was by reading various posts on this site as well as the responses to my initial post (Thank You to those of you who answered).  Well I should have been off everything by now BUT ... the pharmacy called a few weeks ago when I was tapering from 6 to 4 and said they had a Rx for me to pick up and it had been waiting. I never dropped off an Rx or had one called in and certainly didn't expect it. I think when my Rx script ran out in their automated system they called my Doctor and had it refilled. What I should have done was ignore it and came back to the post but NO. My thinking was that I will go pick it up and keep it stored away for those days when the migraines are just too bad to deal with.  Well - 6 per day never did drop to 4. Then 6 became 8 per day for a few days which lead to 10 per day and then 12 per day.  I'm kinda irritated at myself because even though I went through the withdrawls from the immediate drop from 20+ to 8, and even getting to the point where I wasn't feeling all that bad, maybe even better, I allowed myself to escalate the amount per day to 12.

I don't want to be annoying and constantly post but it may be that daily posting is the only way. I have managed to drop from 10 per day to now 8 which is where I am at.  I really thought I could easily taper off these.  When I used to smoke pot I would do so for a month then not for 6 months.  Then make a few weeks and not again for a year.  I used to go out drinking socially and then one day 15 years ago I just stopped.  No issues, never any problems but these painkillers are different. What is it that can make a person look at a situation, tell themselves that it is not good, even counter-productive to take them and then take more pills then the day before.  It is a unrational thought process yet it is what happens.

I have read older posts that advised people to tell their doctor and the pharmacy not to refill any more Rx, which I did at the beginning of this week. I am also curious as to why I am able to stick to the plan if I read the psost on this website on a regular basis but if I stop logging on and just try to stop on my own I can not.  Anyway - Thanks for letting me type.  Any advice would be appreciated and I will continue to read and post until the day I can type that I am done.

[dominosarah]

Glad you are back and working at getting clean.  You did a really good thing by telling your doctor and pharmacy no more.  This is a "we" thing, not an "i" thing as doing it our way got us in this jam to begin with.  Have you thought about any type of aftercare?

[T2112]

No but only because it wasn't until recently that I realized it is a problem. I thought I would just stop one day and that would be that.  No Issues. I know it's not the case with these.

[dominosarah]

I think most of think that once we put the pills down everything will be fine.  I learned quickly that using was only a symptom of this addiction.  I would highly recommend looking into some form of aftercare.

[T2112]

I am worried less about the physical issues surrounding stopping than the physicological aspect.  Will I always have the desire to toss down a couple of pills?  Now, if they are to relieve a debilitating headache then I understand but if I do that after I have stopped will that just lead to taking more and more until it is a multi-pill per day issue again?  I would truly like to understand why it as much as I would like to stop taking them.

[kyle505]

Since you have a legit pain issue, talking with your doc was the best thing to do. You should also let him/her know that you are at least having a problem controlling your intake, and see if there's something else out there for your headaches that isn't addictive. Having said that, I have to say that if you're not already, you are on the slippery slope to addiction. Not canceling the surprise script is a sign that your head is in control. Most of us aren't able to taper without help - someone we trust that can give us the correct amount of pills per the taper schedule. Without help, we will take more pills if they are available. All the best.

[hope4good]

I am addicted to the same medication you are, i think.  Is it fioricet 3 that you take?  I started taking them for migraines and pain.  I know they are hard as hell to get off of.  I tried so many times before and didn't have a good plan except to just get through the horrible withdrawals.  Most of the time I wouldn't even make it through the w/d.  I tried in the past calling the pharmacy to cancel my refill but they said they can't cancel it the dr. has to do that.  So I wouldn't waste your time messing with the pharmacy I would talk to your dr.  Anywho my main point is i know what you are going through and I know it seems impossible right now but it is possible.  I have been clean for almost four months now and that's the longest I have been away from those pills for 10 years.  Honestly the only thing I did different was have aftercare ready for me.  It's amazing how it works.  Also if you are taking fioricet 3 or fiorinal 3 be very careful because you have a chance of getting seizures when you quit. I had to go to detox so they could watch me and make sure I didn't have a seizure.  If that's not what your taking please disregard.  I hope you get to feeling better.  

[T2112]

Yes, those are what I am taking and they are hard to taper from. I am floating back and forth from 4/day to 8/day but now I have not much choice but to stop. I had a script from the doctor but she forgot to write my name on it so it was obviously rejected by the pharmacy. The refill was called in but I still had the unsigned Rx. My thought was I would do a really long taper plan.I don't know why I thought it would work as this is the same situtation as last month and I didn't follow the plan then. Well, yesterday I decided to just write my name, or better, trace my name from an old Rx that I had. I don't know why I think it's funny but I messed the tracing up so bad that the Rx is useless. I think it was the shaking from the tapering I have been doing. I want to stop all together so in one way I am relieved that it didn't work. As I was given the Rx by my doctor I'm not sure if it would be considered "wrong" (I know it is) to have it filled. It sure wouldn't help me get free of these pills. So all I have left is enough to taper and be done in a week. I'm back in the FOG, sweating when I wake up, can't really focus but at least I can still laugh about it (at least today anyway).

[vicki595]

Hi there- A week is not long enough to taper from that daily amount. And, yes, it's more than wrong to try to fill the rx you traced your name on. It's already been replaced...

You display a lot of addictive behaviors. Do you consider yourself an addict?

I used this medication for a very long time ( without codeine ) and I'd be happy to help you if you'd like. First, I would suggest you speak with your doctor and get the rx changed to plain Fioricet or Fiorinal tablets. It's the butalbital that needs to be tapered here...then you can discuss other treatment options. I know it's a wonderful med for migraines but it's not for you or for me...There are other ways to handle the headaches and you may find without this drug your migraines disappear. It causes rebound headaches.

Keep in touch and good luck!

[T2112]

I would definately appreciate the help.  Thank You.  Do I consider myself an addict? I do now - although it is hard to admit outside this forum. I never thought it would happen. I assumed I had 100% control since I could decide to increase or decrease my dosage. Somehow the decreasing part never happened until I logged onto this forum at the beginning of this year. I can say in Nov.- Dec. 2012 I was taking 20+ per day (12 Fioricet w/ Codeine & 8+ straight Codeine). I am now at 6/day for the past three days. Although a bit shaky it's not too bad (yet). I am not an expert at participating in the forum so I am not sure what to provide you here but basically; I told my Dr. (Pain Specialist) that I want to quit, then she announced that because of some new laws she was not willing to Rx anymore for longterm use. That kinda shocked me. I began to wonder if it was really a new law or if it was me. She suggested that I find another Dr. for non-narcotic migraine releif but wanted me to still see her regularly to make sure all was Ok but without writing any more prescriptions. I was good with the arrangement BUT .. then she gives me a taper schedule and a final Rx (w/o my name on it) for 180 pills. I probably only needed 100 to go from 8/day to zero. Typical, I went from 8/day to a 12/day range until I realize that I only had about 60 left and figured I better get started. Do I consider myself an addict. Yes. I don't really feel embarrased - more irritated that I cannot control the situation.

While this may seem like an excuse, it is an honest question; With daily work, extremely stressful, 2 daughters who are Dad's girls, one who hangs out with me constantly because we have the same personality, and all the responsibility that life demands, when is there time to just put life on hold and focus on quitting? Even if is only for a couple weeks. In two hours I have a public meeting to speak at and I can barely type this through the Fog. I made sure to leave the house with only 4 Fioricet so I would be forced to make it through even on 6/day. I hope this works. I am worried that I will not be able to focus. The meeting will be televised. There will be reporters. Arhhhh.

Anyway, I would be extremely appreciative of your help. My Dr. is not going to write another Rx so that is all done. I told my Neuraulogist what was happening. I told him to please not wite me another Rx (2 Dr.s + 2 opiates + 2 pharmacies = addict?) The last straight Codeine Rx I received was back in Nov. 2012. That was all gone before Jan. I just need to use these final Fioricet I have in a way to minimize the discomfort. Please let me know your thoughts. If I am unable to log back on tonight I will definately be back on in the morning. I appreciate your concern and offer to assist as well as the advise everyone gives. It is very helpful to know there are people who can care about people they are not truly obligated to.

[vicki595]

I'm happy to do what I can for you!  Believe me, I know what you're talking about regarding your lifestyle and no time!  That was me for YEARS and finally I woke the hell up...

You're dealing with detoxing from two separate substances which affect different receptors in your brain and cause their own symptoms. What you're feeling now is the decrease in the opiate, I'm pretty sure.  It's usually safe to abruptly stop an opiate but a barbiturate is different. There's a seizure risk so tapering is required.  I don't know how many you have left but that doctor MAY agree to writing for plain Fioricet. You could check...

On this forum, we're not allowed to give a taper schedule but I think you know already how it's done.   The best tapers are slow and give your body time to adjust to dosage changes.  

We can talk more and I'll try to answer questions. You'll get familiar with how the forum works or just ask. Stick with this thread, too, it makes it so much easier for anyone who wants to follow your story.

For now, please know that you can do this. It won't always be easy but what is?  It's what we make it and believe me you can make your life so much better!

[T2112]

After a stressful meeting last night it was nice to just fall asleep. Today I have only taken 2 pills. I went from 8/day over the past weekend to 6 on Mon and 6 yesterday. While I am not sure if I can stay at 2 today. May have to stay at 4 for a few days. But at least it's far less than last week. I assume if I dropped 50% in a week I will begin to feel even worse over the next few days. If I can find a way to stay at 4/day until the weekend I know, well think, maybe hope is the right word, that I can remain on only 2/day or just jump off over the weekend. I'm stressed that I feel better today then the past few days. I would think it would be the opposite. I am sure it is going to catch up with me. Thanks for listening.

[vicki595]

Yes, you'll feel it after a drop of 50%. But, right now all you want to do is prevent a seizure, you don't have enough pills to do a comfortable taper. Have you totally given up on talking with the doctor about this? She/he should help you...Are you afraid to admit you have a problem with these?

Jumping off over the weekend is too soon, in my opinion.

[YesLife4Me]

Hi There.  I had a nasty addiction to that stuff as well and wound up going to rehab.  Before I went to rehab the Dr gave me phenabarbital to help ease withdraw.   I got myself back into trouble with them on my own after that.   Thought I could control it like you and realized I had a much bigger problem than I thought.   Tapering can be done if you can manage your intake, but you have to be really committed to doing this.    For me, if I had pills, I took them even though I wanted to be done with them.  It was always ef it I will start the taper tomorrow and then when I knew I didn't have enough to taper successfully I would take less each day until I was out so w/d wouldn't be as horrible.   The Fiorcet causes awful rebound headaches and once I was off it, my daily headaches ceased.   I still get migraines and headaches, but they are controlled with Excederin or Zomig.   I tried using Norco to manage my pain and headaches, but that turned into a whole nother addiction.  

[T2112]

The sad part of this whole journey is that the Fiorcet at one time was the perfect prescription to allow me back into life. Daily migraines, some worse than others, had me taking around 16 Advil per day. Well it didn't take long until my kidneys were only functioning at a 20% level. I got pretty sick and was told to never take Advil again. The headaches got to a point that I couldn't go to work, back then the kids were something like 7y/o and 2y/o and wanted to be involved in sports, etc. but I was always in a dark room, in bed covered in wet cold towels. The Fiorcet allowed me to forget the headaches. I became involved in everything. It was great. Then I noticed that 2/day turned to 3., then 6, then 8 an so on. I would be lying if I said that they did not help. They did. I think the problem is that they are addicting, the tolerance builds up and the last thing I want is to go back to the headaches which I am probably going to have to deal with in some manner shortly.

You mentioned something that struck me. When I was taking 12/day I noticed that I would wake up with headaches, take 2 just to get to the shower and take my next 2 a few hours later when the headache started up again. I am not sure why but when I take less than 6/day I am taking them to taper and ease the WDs. Not because of the headache because I go days without one. I may wake up shaking, sweating uncontrolably but there is no headache.

I don't want to make this post too long but I noticed another thing. I had back surgery and told to take Neurontin which I am told is a non-narcotic. If I take it now I notice the WDs are almost not there. The only problem is they put me to sleep. It's like drinking Nyquil and going to work. I just sit there drinking Mountain Dew so my head doesn't hit the keyboard. Nevermind actually trying to work. But they seem to help the WDs and still no headache. I think the headaches, medicine, symptoms, causes, etc. is just far too complicated to resolve. What may work for one will not for another. I need to find my non-narcotic solution.

[marycarmel]

You've got an angel on your side with Vicki.  Neurontin isn't safe to stop abruptly since it can cause seizures, too.  Some people say it helps with wd.  I was on it for nerve pain but even @ low dosage it caused me to sound like I was drunk.  

[YesLife4Me]

I hear you.  It was the only thing that seemed to work, then it turned on me.  Soon i was cranky, irritable, and tired all the time.  Part of the withdraw from it is the headaches, so you take a couple to get rid of it, then as it wears off, here comes another...then you are in a vicious cycle.   Tremors, shakes, sweats, stomach pain are all with draw symptoms.  Since you are taking the ones with codeine, you are probably suffering opiate withdraw too.  No energy, mental fog, runs, etc.  Can you enlist the help of your Dr?    It was hard but I had to tell mine I had relapsed and needed help.   I was getting them off the net, so had to tell him that.  He was very supportive and understanding.   Its very addicting and I had no idea.  Took it for 10 years with the last 5 abusing it.  I was taking 15 a day.  

[T2112]

I created a spreadsheet to track the taper plan I am following. I was unaware of the seizure part of the whole process so rather than be too abrupt I will follow a more drawn out plan. It may take a week or so longer than I want but the goal is to stop. I never liked taking the Neurontin so I was only taking 1/day until I started tapering then I moved it to 2 or 3 per day only for the past couple of days. I will just go back to 1/day and then stop taking it. I was taking, at one point, 9 Neurontin per day per my Dr's advise but then I was told to taper of the Neurontin rather than the Fiorcet. When she decided that she did not want to prescribe Fiorcet anymore I was told to esculate back to 9/day of Neurontin and begin to taper of the Fiorcet. So for the past few months I have been rollercoasting up and down with two different medication per the advise of my Dr. At this point I just want to be free of both medication and see what happens from there. How sad it would be if the medications have contributed to the headaches over the past 10 years or so.

[Sweetness91]

I'm not sure if this can help you or not.... But probably 15 years ago I was on that vicious cycle of having headaches or migraines every single day. It was horrid! I went to countless doctors trying to find the cause and a solution. (This was before I started taking pain pills)...one doctor gave me the fioricet also...but it didn't help me so I didn't take that long. I was sent to three different neurologists and finally the last one put me on a combination of Atenolol (beta-blocker) and Prozac(of all things...lol). But it WORKED!! It had something to do with the brain chemistry and whatnot. I took it for several years and knock on wood, never had another migraine. And let me say, the migraines I had were debilitating....my husband would usually end up taking me to the ER after 3-4 days of one because I would be dehydrated from all the vomiting, and I would get IV fluids for a few hours and a pain shot. Anyway....it's something you could talk to your doc about....I know how headaches can be...it consumes your life after awhile and that is no way to live. :( Good luck!! And good job on your taper!!

[YesLife4Me]

Good idea on the spreadsheet!   And glad you are slowing down on taper. Once you are done, you should start having less and less rebound headaches.  That is so nice!   Also like sweetnes I was consumed with headaches/migraines daily until I was put on proprananol (another beta blocker blood pressure med) and now I rarely get migraines.   They aren't sure why it works for some people, but it does.   And I don't have high blood pressure.  Has something to do with blood vessels swelling and constricting during the migraine process.  

[T2112]

I tried that Proprananol along with other beta-blockers and they didn't seem to work. What I can't remember is if I was on the Fiorcet at the same time. If so I am sure I enjoyed being on the Fiorcet more than any other medication - especially back in the early days. Fiorcet use to put my mouth in gear. I would call people on the phone that I hadn't spoke to in years just to talk a lot to someone. Not sure why that happened - It's doesn't do that anymore.

[vicki595]

T-  How are you today?  I've found that the headaches just go away once the pills are gone. I was a huge migraine person, diagnosed, and suffered for years. It was mostly the damn pills. In the last 3 years, l've had very few headaches. Most go away with Excedrin and I think I've taken 2 Imitrex...so you might be surprised.  

[T2112]

Ok. Kinda Blah. Thank you for asking. Waiting for the work day to end to go home. I took tomorrow off so I can have at least 3 days to just focus on not much and walk through the Fog. I have only taken 2 Fiorcet today. I have been able to not take any to get up and into the shower. I'm following the same pattern as yesterday. I am very much looking forward to hanging out with my daughter. The kid (ahh 14 y/o) is so funny. She is an increadable softball player. She is a pitcher and plays 12 months a year. Pitching lessons one night during the week, hitting practice another evening then games on Saturday & Sundays. I do get sad when I realize I am not coaching her anymore. The more of the medication I took daily over the years the less I wanted to take on all the responsibility for the entire team.

I will say that I have not had a headache for days now. I am assuming they will come but it is far easier to stick to a taper plan when the headache is no present. The next 3 days will be Ok, I hope. When it's just the kid and I it is really a fun, no stress time. In all honesty, it was worrying that my youngest daughter would relaize that I had a problem that began my quest to be free of the Fiorcet. The softball travel circuit covers 5 states, mulitple weekends, multiple days out of town. I was always worried about the supply of pills I had and if I was in need of a refill how and where would it work out. When you're in another state pharmacies seem to not be as receptive to filling the Rx. All I did was worry. It wasn't fair to her. Anyway, that should not be an issue this season.

[HadEnough0920]

I'm glad you chose to post here.  Many, including myself, suffer from migraines.  You will do anything to get relief.  I too took Fioricet for about a month.  It worked fine to get rid of the migraines, but I wanted to prevent them if possible.  I found a doc that sat down with me and we went over everything.  He asked me about my sleep.  It turns out that I would wake up with the migraines about 90% of the time.  He Rx'd me amatriptyline and clonazepam to help me stay asleep and be more restful.  Very small dosages of each.  I noticed that it took a bit to get used to the meds.  I was foggy upon waking for an hour or so.  But the migraines became very infrequent.  Then we worked on finding a medicine that would knock them out if I did get one.  I tried a few, but settled on Relpax, which is a Triptan similar to Imitrex or Frova.  It is not without issues(extreme tiredness), but it gets rid of them quickly for me.

I posted to let you know that you're not alone, and there are safe, non addictive options out there that work.  Talk to your doctor about them.  It may take some trial and error, but you'll be much happier in the long run.  Good luck.

[T2112]

Hi - I am posting to stay connected and see this through. This weekend was extremely busy and in some ways I think that has helped.  I am following my plan and am now down to 4/day which is an 80% drop since the beginning of the year. I am starting to feel the effects. A lot foggy, a lot tired, and a lot sore. I seem to be having some weirdnedd with my eyesight from the time I wake up until I fall asleep??? I am still in my basic sleep pattern for the most part. It is some scary seeing only 20 or so Fiorcet left in the bottle and knowing there will not be another refill tomorrow. If all goes as planned this week is the last. Then I will need the support more than ever.

T