Vicodin and how I feel now being rapidly detoxed

[Rebekkah]

I am desperate, please reply if you have any ideas.  I have been on Vicodin for about fifteen months and nine days ago was rapidly detoxed. I had a long history of depression etc for many years.  I was prescribed Vicodin ES for migraines and chronic hip pain for these last 15 months. Before the vicodin, I was tried on every combination known to man and psychopharmacology never proved to be beneficial. About fifteen months ago, I was hospitalized at Cedars sinai Psych unit for depression, cutting and suicidal ideations.  I was perscribed 100mg od demerol for about 33 days which would addict anyone to narcotics.  They switched me to Vicodin and supprisingly enough during the time I was on the Vicodin all of those intolerable feelings of wanting to end my life went away. I was fully functional, I also happen to be a medical professional which makes the whole situation worse.  I am not at all in trouble at work for this Vicodin issue.  They don't even know about it.  My issue now is that the feelings of cutting myself and wanting to take my life are back and very strong. I have a PHD and an aneshesiologist which believe the treatment is psychotherapy and more psych meds. I am tired of that. I just want to end it. I'm nervous about going back on Vicodin because that type of drug is not acceptable to society but the drugs that they want me one prozac etc are useless to me. My delemma Vicodin vs suicide.   Thank you for listening.

[Ronnieg to Rebekkah]

Rebekkah,

If you are in the medical field, you should know more than any of us as far as what would be suitable to treat your depression.
Have you spoke with a psychiatrist about how you feel concerning taking vicodin for your depression?
How many did you take a day?
Please seek some help as suicide is not the answer.
I myself am prescribed opiates for chronic pain and at times they bring me out of a slight depression, but they also make me jumpy and skitterish at other times. They help my chronic pain immensly but I do not like the feeling of being dependant on them.
Seek further help and I will pray for your recovery.

[Brighty]

I have never seen a question like yours and I do hope you will continue to report back with the information you find. One of the things that narcotic users continually report is that the drug makes them feel better initially... senses of euphoria, pain relief, stabilized emotions, lifting of depression. Generally, narcotics seem like the cure-all for nearly every problem a person has even if they were prescribed for pain only. This to me seems like the seduction of the drug.... that they mask every emotion including joy, as well as pain... the users become numb and live in a distorted reality while the people around them see the truth of the addiction. Somewhere along the way the cure-all turns into the problem. Eventually the addict tries to come off the narcotic and the pain returns along with long term predictable depression. Time and recovery programs, and other medications eventually reverse this situation. But there is usually one lingering problem that many people never address... the true underlying reason they started with. In my daughter's case she revealed after 16 years that she was raped at the age of 5 by an acquaintance of our family. She is finally getting treatment from a female crisis counselor. I do not wish to presume or undermine your problem, nor am I a medical or mental health professional so please forgive me for inappropriate comments... only YOU know what you have been suffering. I guess I wanted to tell you that you have a human body and I suspect that you will become addicted to the vicoden if you already are not.... for some people the addiction is secondary to their true need for this medication and nobody should be telling them they have to come off it. I just wanted to suggest that maybe the reason no pharmacological combination has ever worked for your depression is because there is a deep underlying reason for it. Maybe deep therapy and psychological analysis will reveal it. I realize I should not be so presumptious. We share alot on this board and it is simply my thought. Vicoden is a horrible addiction to add to an already full plate. There is also much more information for "cutting" and newer and better treatments. God bless you and may you find light. Brighty

[Tim]

Rebekkah:

DON'T DO IT.  I know exactly how you felt, have gone through the same once I stopped COLD TURKEY.  I actually quit a job that I needed desperately because of the withdrawel affects.  THIS WILL PASS, it's only temporary.  I'm still struggling, but I refuse to give in to something that will be gone within a month.  Please if your really feeling that bad, check yourself into a hospital.  At least they can watch you around the clock and it will be harder for you to do what you want to do.  Good Luck and I God bless.

[tom to Rebekkah]

I'm no doctor, Rebekkah, but I'd say that the question of whether or not to take Vicodin, along with everything else you've said, is all part of a profound psychological disorder that must be addressed immediately by you and an appropriate physician. From where I sit, I believe that physician should be a psychiatrist -- someone able to deal with your whole being, including the part that is in physical pain and needs relief. I must confess that I am in a way shocked that you can mention taking Vicodin in the same breath as wanting to cut yourself! The Vicodin issue, to say the least, is trivial next to your urge to hurt yourself. Please ask for help right now, this minute, from someone or place that can secure phsyciatric help for you. The euphoric effect of Vicodin is only distracting you or at most masking your self-destructive impulses. My god, I'm 46 now and have recently watched one member of my family die and another fight like hell for his life. As long as you're alive, there is the possibility of you recovering and enjoying life as you deserve to. You must be in great pain inside to feel as you do. Ask for help now. Doctors really do become doctors because they care about people. There is a physician waiting right now on the other end of your telephone who can and will help you. Please make that call before you harm yourself further. That is all I know to say. Don't give up and keep in touch with us here if you can. You are never alone. I will look for your messages and help in any way I can.

[Christine]

I also suffer from depression, but i think your own posting answers your question.  On the Vicodin you say that your suicidal ideations actually became worse!  It is not the answer for you.  It is not Vicodin vs. Suicide, but Vicodin encouraging such an act.  Vicodin sets you up, makes you feel good for awhile, and then makes things much worse.

My sister commited suicide, my mother suffers from manic depression, and i suffer from depression. So...from much experience my biggest bit of advise would be a psychotherapist, especially if antidepressants don't seem to work for you.  Though usually with a good psychiatrist, they CAN find an antidepressant that does work for you.  Make sure you see a GOOD psychiatrist, not always easy to find.

Good luck to you!

[Joan C]

I go to my doctor tommow.  Ive been going to him for the last year for polymyalgia rheumatica (RMA).  Uually this dieise takes any where from 1 to 5 year. Last time I saw him it seemed he was  going to cut all my med offs.  I take presidone 4m maintaine,   Lortab 10m 100 ount and 1 oxycontin 20m nightly.  Anyway my problems has been I'm always intimanated by my doctors so every time I go in there I tell him everything if honky dore.  When in reality the stiffness and soreness is almost more than I can stand.  Alo I did tend to yo-yo on my predisone because I hate the stuff.  husband says I shold tell him everythng.  Last time I try to stop the predisone my chest my chest starting hurting and I had problems breathing. The pain meds are a god-send an I can't take NSAIDS'S or the newer ones that are on the market.My question is how do I handel this doctor when it the past I haven
be very trughfull.

[Lynn B]

Dear Rebekkah -- sure hope you're feeling better.  I deal with chronic pain, too.  I'm also a recovering addict.  I work with a pain management specialist and a pain managementn/recovery psychologist.  With the help of a good solid program of recovery and professional assistance, I can manage my pain and stay clean and sober.

When you're talking about cutting, it seems that a good psychiatrist who knows addiction AND pain management might be of benefit.  As you well know, cutting is just a short vacation from the real stuff, so why even bother??  Tell your doc what's going on, and get the help you know you need.  You don't ever have to do it alone...  best -- Lynn

[Brighty]

Your husband is right. A doctor can't treat a person properly if they don't know the truth. Prednisone is no joke and you're not the only person who has side effects.. so please speak up,honey, so you can get some relief. Having trouble breathing is serious business. What if your child told you he had a stomach ache and he really had a problem seeing things.... you'd be giving him Pepto Bismol when he likely needed glasses. Lot's of good that would do him. It may not be acceptable to tell the world how lousy we feel. But it's something you MUST tell your doctor !! Doctor's can't know ahead of time when they prescibe something if it's going to be the wrong med for the person. Everyone is different. Just tell him the truth. Please make an appointment today !! Love, Brighty

[tom to Joan C]

Joan, when you go in to see your doctor, say to yourself, "The doctor works for ME. I don't work for him. I do not need his approval. I am the customer and I want my money's worth!" Doctors are highly educated but they have no more moral authority than you or me. I know exactly what you're talking about when you say you're intimidated to the point of telling them what you think they want to hear. They represent power, in that they control the source of your relief. But realize this: By telling them you're fine when your not, you're betraying yourself and them. They really do want to know exactly how you feel. The clinic, the whole hospital or wherever you go exists for your benefit, not theirs. Maybe you should begin by telling your doctor that he intimidates you and you're having trouble telling him how you really feel. Doctors are very aware of the effect they have on patients. From the meds you're taking, I imagine you're really suffering. Tell him that! He's a human being. He got into medicine to help people like you. Tell him what he really wants to hear -- the truth. If you find that he works so fast you don't have time to think of everything you want to say, WRITE IT DOWN. (Doctors can read -- that's how they got into med school.) That's what I do. It works like a charm. My doctor appreciates it when I prepare for the examination in advance. If he cares about you, he'll be glad to read your notes. Try it. What've you got to lose (besides everything)?

[joedice]

right those kind of precription drugs are ot acceptable, but yet booze is i agree with you 1000%, i"m a vicodan addict of 10 years..its no picinic trying to get them...best of luck to you joe

[Joan C]

Well, I went to see my doctor and took my husband with me.  Not only did he give me my ususal meds, but also prescribe Remeron.  Talk about being out of it.  I took the Remeron with 2 ativan and got so zonked, my husband was going to call the hospital.  Does anyone know what Remeron is, I though it was an anti-depressive.

[tom to Joan C]

I believe it is an anti-depressent of some kind. The ativan no doubt potentiated the Remeron. I seem to remember someone on this board saying they used Remeron at bed time ...

[Same here]

I know what you mean. OxyContin to me keeps me from being depressed and moody like I have always been and it gives me the energy and ambition to do things. I think the medical community should look into opiates for curing depression rather than just pain because it certainly works wonders for some!

[Pat]

I have the interesting distinction of seeing your dilemma from two different sides.  My husband is addicted to Vicodin and has been for several years.  He is fully functioning even though he doses himself with at a minumum of 20 750mg tablets at least 3 times a day.  At times, he is rather irratic.  Lately, he has become increasingly irratic.  He doesn't want anyone to know that he hops from pharmacy to pharmacy trying to get refills.  He doesn't want anyone to know that he hops from specialist to specialist trying to forge complaint about some injury (he is quite athletic).  Since he is into sports, he always has a little water inflammation in a joint somewhere and the doctors keep prescripting the vicodin to him.

I have issues with cutting and suicide.  I first cut when I was 18 and it was only occasionally.  Suicidal thoughts were there most of the time but I worked through them.  Recently, I have started cutting again in earnest.  I cut with razor blades, box openers, knifes,anything.  I cut at work and at home.  I was completely out of control before I saught therapy.  It helped. I haven't cut again and that's been almost 2 weeks.

You should know that if a doctors keeps refilling a prescription for narcotics too frequently (time span less than 30 days), it is  grounds for a malpractice suit. The least the physician prescripting the drug to you could do is suggest a good detox program. Good luck and don't kill yourself - the world can be a beautiful place.

[Vivian]

Listen, don't take your life for anything. I too am just starting
to taper myself off the vicodine. I have been hooked on this
before only not as strong and I was not as old. I quit smoking
several years ago (and believe me that took some doing) and I feel like I can take care of this. I have noticed too that work seemed alot more tolerable than before I was taking the Vicodin and now that my surgery is up my doctor informed me that the drug supply was also comming to an end. So, here I am back at trying to get rid of something in my life that only should serve a purpose for a short time. But I will be ok because My Faith in God is powerful. No I am not a religious nut, I just simply love God and have total faith in him. He has never let me down before and I am 35 years old. Put your heart into his hands and let him take care of this problem. He will do it. I know he will. Taking your life is not the answer. It never is. Watch Touched by an Angel sometime on Sunday nights and you will see what I mean. God found me at a young age. I was a child with alcoholic parents and my mother was an athiest. How he found me I will never know. But I have loved him my whole life. There is Power in prayer and you don't have to go to church for it. It is simply available where you are right now. Take care of yourself and trust in HIM. Good luck and God Bless you

[melody]

Listen, don't take your life for anything. I too am just starting
to taper myself off the vicodine. I have been hooked on this
before only not as strong and I was not as old. I quit smoking
several years ago (and believe me that took some doing) and I feel like I can take care of this. I have noticed too that work seemed alot more tolerable than before I was taking the Vicodin and now that my surgery is up my doctor informed me that the drug supply was also comming to an end. So, here I am back at trying to get rid of something in my life that only should serve a purpose for a short time. But I will be ok because My Faith in God is powerful. No I am not a religious nut, I just simply love God and have total faith in him. He has never let me down before and I am 35 years old. Put your heart into his hands and let him take care of this problem. He will do it. I know he will. Taking your life is not the answer. It never is. Watch Touched by an Angel sometime on Sunday nights and you will see what I mean. God found me at a young age. I was a child with alcoholic parents and my mother was an athiest. How he found me I will never know. But I have loved him my whole life. There is Power in prayer and you don't have to go to church for it. It is simply available where you are right now. Take care of yourself and trust in HIM. Good luck and God Bless you

[Kimberly to Bob K]

I also believe they should look into narcotics for depression.  I have been depressed for most of my life and I have been through all the medications and therapy's but nothing works like Vicodin for happiness, motivation and all the other normal feelings.

[tom to Pat]

20 Vicodin three times a day? You mean he's taking 60 pills a day? That means 60 Tylenol per day! Take this seriously: His liver (and his life) are in real jeopardy. It's true that some people can work up to taking vast amounts of substances such as Tylenol, but he won't know he's killed his liver until it's too late. Then he'll have a few days to think about it as he dies. Not a good end. At least have him disolve them in water, drinking the water with the narcotic in it and leaving the Tylenol sediment at the bottom of the glass. That will take the majority of the tylenol out of the equation but not all of it. There will still be a powerful dose of Tylenol in what he's taking. If he is doing 60 per day, he must accept the fact that he's had his run on Vics and should stop or switch to something else. He really is playing with death at that dosage. Go to a health food store and get some milk thistle. That will help his liver heal -- but it's not a substitute for quitting. It won't really help if he keeps taking all that Tylenol.

[Pat to Tom]

Thank you, Tom.  I've already told him that he's blowing his liver but he doesn't seem to care.  I cannot force him to stop taking the vics and he's not ready to quit. I've even talked to him about the clonidine or catapress patches, but he's just not interested.  He knows he's addicted but has decided that he is functioning well with his addiction.  The truth is: he is still extremely irratic, he's had an affair and I'm tired of it all.  Pardon me folks, but if he blows his liver and dies - he'll be doing his family a favor.

[tamra]

I have been on them for 7 years and Iam going in to rehav to try to get off of them Iam also on soma, ultrm, and zanax, and  prozac and can't even name them all and I get them for my workerscomp doc I hope you get though this good luck.

[Rebekkah]

Hello everyone, I just wanted to thank all of you for your support, concern, prayers and all the time taken to respond to my issue. I only wish that I had all of you for my close friends.  I am doing well, no more suicidal ideations which is a G-d sent.  I have read all of the responses and all of the support from everyone in the forum was the one deterrent from my committing suicide. I cannot thank you all enough!!!  I have  recently seen a psychologist, a physician who specializes in physical pain, the Waisman Institute who did the rapid detox as well as my own family physician who I have known for 13 years.  All have come up with the idea that I probably am opiate deficient but as I mentioned before there is not enough study on the subject of opiate defiency. So, to make a long story short, I am being prescribed Vicodin once again.  I am not happy with myself that I seem to need opiates to function normally. However, if this is what it takes to not experience depression, suicidal ideations etc on a daily basis than I will take the Vicodin. To weigh the lesser of two evils. I would rather resign myself to taking Vicodin rather than death.  At least I am alive and functional!!  The one issue that I do need to work on is the amount that I take.  Opiate dependency is a progressive disease which means that it requires more and more to get the same feeling. So, in short, I need to reprogram my thinking about the reason for taking the Vicodin; getting that high feeling vs taking an appropriate amount to maintain my emotional stability.  At some point I will try again to come off of the vicodin, but for now I have been advised to stay on it. Unfortunantly, what I have observed is that opiate deficiency is a hush hush disorder which I believe is due to the fact that the FDA does not allow the prescribing of opiates for psychiatric symptoms. Hopefully, that will change or maybe someday soon a new med will come on the market that will deal specifically with this problem.  Thankyou again for all of the support and I will keep in touch via this forum. Just to let you know, medical professionals like myself are great when it comes to handling others issues, but most of us are incompetent to say the least when it comes to healing ourselves.

[tom to Rebekkah]

so glad to hear from you! I knew if you could talk to your doctor the way you talked to us, you would get some meaningful help. I learned something from your last post. Opiate deficiency? I've thought that, tolerance and physcial dependence aside, I simply felt "normal" when I took a relatively small dose of an opiate -- not euphoric, but just ... complete. I'm going to check into this ... thanks for the tip. Keep in touch.

[Jerry]

Rebekkah,
I am also a medical professional (an emergency physician in southern california) who was addicted to Vicodin.  Hearing your story was supprising as I too have had a life long battle with depression (maybe it's better characterized as disthymia).  I have tried psychotherapy, psychoanalysis, and multiple medications but nothing helped.  I have felt suicidal many time, but would never do it; I just wish[ed] I was dead.  About 2 year ago I saw a patient who had a bad reaction to Vicoden and gave me her bottle to throw away.  I didn't throw it away.  I tried it, and as you said, my depression and social anxiety went away.  I was floored.  I thought, "Wow, THIS is probably how MOST people feel!"  I started enjoying my work and enjoying my family so much more.  Well, I started using vicoden weekly, then daily, then up to 12 pills a day.  I realized it was a problem about 6 months ago, and recently I tapered myself off over 3 days it and am now clean, but terrible depressed (for some odd reason I did not experience any of the classic opiate withdrawl symptoms).  I have not shared my problem with friends, family or colleagues.  I do not feel I can even though I know some of the other physicians I work with have had the same problem.  Unlike you, I don't feel that my choice is suicide or vicodin, and I know that if I keep taking vicodin I will destroy my liver and die, so it's not an option anymore either.  I just don't know what to do.  I guess I'm just writing, Rebekkah, to let you know that you're not alone and my thoughts are with you.  Please please let me know what is happening with you.

[Rebekkah to Jerry]

It was such a relief to read your story. Of course, I would never wish anyone else to have this Opiate issue, but it feels more tolerable to know that I am not the only medical professional that is or has battled with Vicodin. I also work in Southern California as a nurse.  If you ever want to talk in confidence with me about this issue call me at [phone]. I know that I shouldn't give such personal info but I am going to take this chance because I would really like to talk with you and it might help you to know that your not alone either.  So, if your willing to take a chance give me a call. Take care of yourself and again anything you tell me if you call will be kept in the stricted confidence ok. Take care of yourself and thanks for the reply.               Rebekkah