Kindergarten behavior problems

[Dlm8483]

My daughter has been in kindergarten since August. Just about everyday she has "red light" for disrupting the class ie making silly noises or talking while the teacher is teaching. I am at my whits end with this the teacher now says if she doesn't stop she will have to send her out during lessons and my daughter will have to have lesson during recess. I have taken her toys away sent her to bed after dinner and other punishments and I just don't know what to do anymore.... Any suggestions?

[Sandman2]

   Well, sometimes private schools can't afford to hire experienced people and there are growing pains.  The counselor seems to fall into this same category.  As the CL of the ADHD forum, I am upset that this counselor is giving medical advice.  YOU are the only one that decides if your child would ever be medicated.  If the child is not diagnosed, how could the school or you help her with behavioral modification methods?  It is an absolutely ridiculous statement by the counselor!  And if you do have any concerns about ADHD please post on our ADHD forum.  I have lots of resources to help.
    You might want to listen to your daughter when she is sleeping to see if she has any issues breathing due to swollen adenoids, etc.  This is something that her doc can also (easily, I think) check on.  I have had parents on this forum who discovered this was a problem for their child - and it made a huge difference.
    It may be that your daughter is intelligent and bored and the teacher doesn't know how to deal with this.  However, most intelligent kids will not want the negative attention and soon figure out the rule structure.  However, if you child does have ADHD, then the ability is simply not there at this age to conform (unless, the teacher really knows what to do).  So it is pretty important to figure this out.   This site has a lot of good useful information on ADHD.  If you have any questions, please post.  The site is -     http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/what/WWK8
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[Dlm8483]

She started speaking at a very early age around 5. Months and in sentences by 1.

[Dlm8483]

We just had a baby he is 12 weeks old when we first brought him home she had some behavioral problems at home but we got that under control now it's just at school. She makes comments during homework about it being boring and does sloppy work when I know she can do better bc I've seen her do better she goes to a private school the same school she went to for preschool and her k4 teacher says she didn't have these problems with her. Her teacher is a new teacher who refuses to raise her voice or be firm so I feel like my daughter thi l&d she can run her over. I've told the teacher several times my daughter needs someone authoritive to reign her in when she starts acting wild. It does appear to me that she is often tired and that's when the behavior is magnified. I out her to bed at 8 and she sleeps until I wake her at 7 the next morning so I'm not sure how I could get her anymore sleep. I have discussed the tiredness with her doctor and he wants to draw blood to check for thyroid issues or diabetes but haven t had this done yet. We did the assessment for ADHD but was told by a counselor that if we don't want to go the route of medicating we shouldn't have her labeled. I've told the teacher to call me when she starts acting out so I can talk with her about it and try to get her reigned back in but the teacher doesn't call.

[Sandman2]

    Well, as a retired elementary school principal, I can tell you two things.  One is that if one of my kindergarten teachers was going to send her child outside during the lessons and then bring her back inside during recess - I would be having a long serious talk with her.  And then would be doing all I could to get help for the child.  The red light method, if it is going to work, will do so fairly immediately.  If you have been using it for two months and that's all you've got - then you should be moving on to other methods.  Which I guess she is doing.  But they are wrong and actually will make the situation worse.
   Second, it does not work to punish someone of this age for something they did hours earlier.  The ability to connect the punishment and the behavior does not exist at this age over that period of time.  
   Both Mark and Specialmom brought up a very good point.  That being - is this a problem only at school.  If a child has something like ADHD it will exhibit its self in more then one place.  If it is only going on at school, then it is a whole different ball game.  It could be something as simple as lack of sleep at night or not having a constant bedtime.  It could be something at school  that triggers this behavior.  It may be that she is bored silly - and thus acts silly.
   The point is that you need to figure out what is going on with her and what the trigger is.  Unless this is a brand new teacher and the entire class is wild (which gets her going), you have to assume its probably more to do with her then the teacher.  But there is no way of knowing unless you (or perhaps a school administrator) watches what is going on.  So, I would definitely visit the school and watch her (and the teacher) in action - or get someone to do that for you.
   There are things that you can do at home to help.  Punishment for what she does at school is not one of them.  But dealing with her interrupting you at home (for example), will carry over to school.  There are books that can be read to her and then practiced at home which will also carry over to school.  But we need to know more about the situation so we can recommend specific actions that you can take to help her.
   So now you know what to do to help her - that is to get more information about what is going on.  Then get back to us and we will be able to help.  Best wishes.

[specialmom]

BTW:  I didn't discipline my child at school and his behavior improved.  so, please don't feel it is necessary for changing behavior to punish for struggling during the school day (which her behavior may be an indicator of).  My own son actually has grown into a boy who hates to get in trouble and is a strong rule follower.  He's now 9 and we had many similar issues when he was younger.  good luck

[specialmom]

Hi there.  I'm sorry you are going through this.  Know that you aren't alone.  Many kids have a hard adjustment to kindergarten.  Did your daughter ever do preschool and how did that go if she did?  How does your daughter act at home?  Do you yourself have a hard time at times managing her behavior??  How is her speech?  how is her fine motor skills?  

I ask all these questions to gain a bit more insight into what could be underlying the issues at school.  Sometimes kids simply are lacking maturity as all kids develop this at their own rate.  However, what the teacher is telling you is that her behavior is making her stand outside of what is normal for her age group.  That always feels rotten, I know.  (had one myself like that).  But kids that have issues in kindergarten due to maturity usually grow out of it.

The tricky part is to determine if something else is going on with her.  Taking away recess is a bad idea for all kids as really, recess is often what some kids need to maintain themselves and stay calm and focused in class.  I would begin working with the counselor at your school on this subject and not allow just the teacher to make the decision on how they handle this.  

Is your daughter 5 or 6, by the way?  The usual rule of thumb is that kids develop better impulse control at the age of 6.  

Anyway, what is she doing?  talking to peers, moving around, etc.??  

One thing that comes to mind is if a child has any issues with what is being taught, they often are disruptive.  Example, if a child is expected to write a good deal and they find hand writing challenging, they will find other ways to distract from doing their work.  So, understanding if she has any issues in various academic areas might help you figure out what is going on behind the classroom behavior.  

I will say that disciplining a child of that age at home after school is pretty worthless.  The discipline needs to be immediate.  And sadly, it is very true that being in trouble a good deal at school is an issue with peers.  Kids notice the kids that get in trouble a lot and that child can be looked at as 'unsafe' to be with.  You will be doing your daughter a good deal of benefit to help her overcome these at school issues. But again, disciplining a child of this age after the school day is over is really not effective in changing behavior (as you are seeing).  Things have to be at the time they happen.  And in truth, it's kind of insult to injury.  If your daughter is struggling for any 'reason' and the bad behavior at school is a symptom of that, the school day is already hard on her.  Does that make sense?  

So, discuss the behavior at school, come up with plans for changing it, even try some rewards rather than punishing.  I think you'll get much further.  

My own son had issues due to his nervous system not being regulated.  He has sensory issues and school was hard for him.  we addressed his nervous system through occupational therapy and things improved dramatically.  Some kids need movement during the day and lots of physical activity outside of school to stay calm at school.  Also, they need a good amount of sleep for appropriate behavior.  

Hang in there.  Hopefully it will get better soon.  peace

[MarkLakewood3367]

Besides the red light, does the teacher consequent your daughter when she engages in this behavior?  Using a red light is basically a form of a token economy system which can be effective.  However, it would be appropriate for the teacher to provide some sort of consequence when this behavior occurs. Sending her out during lessons for the behavior you describe for a kindergartener sounds fairly drastic when techniques could be attempted in the classroom.

At home, I would recommend sticking with one discipline such as a timeout or a grounding to the bedroom and do not give up.  Hopefully, you are getting daily reports from the teacher so that your discipline occurs the day of the misbehavior.  Don't switch from one discipline to the next as you would be giving your daughter the opportunity to manipulate the situation.  Perhaps she hasn't yet connected that her behavior at school affects her freedom at home yet.  A consistent discipline will help her make that connection.

Also, rewarding your daughter daily for good school behavior is something to consider.  It sounds like the teacher has a form of a token economy system in her class.  There is no reason why you cannot carry it over to the home giving her privileges based on her light.  Consistent discipline from the school to home would definitely help your daughter make cognitive connections.

Does your daughter misbehave at home or does this only occur at school?  Have you asked your daughter why she engages in this behavior at school?  Is she aware that her behavior at school affects whether she is disciplined at home?