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Antioxidants, blood analyses, and fibrosis update
Hello medhelpers, fellow sufferers of hep C, forum lurkers, people who got here by a wrong mouse click, and all victims of the medical profession. Greetings from Buenos Aires!
It's been quite a while since I posted [not long enough for some, I'm sure], but I have an update that may be of interest, which I propose to share with those who want it, in my inimitable if much-maligned style. And for those who don't want it, I say phooey.
Before I get into it, though, I just want to say a special Hi! to my friends trish, aheart, nygirl, james, bali, susi, figuy, hector, willing, mary, gsd, goofydad, lauri, walrus, desrt, marcy, and all my other dear friends who I see from looking over recent posts are still active in the forum. I love you all very much. And I don't use that word lightly.
Now to the gist. First, I still haven't done tx three years after being diagnosed HCV+. Why? because I'm 67, genotype 1, and have a high viral count, and I don't like my chances [around 35%] with standard antiviral therapy. I haven't been able to get into a trial of the newer meds like Teleprevir and Boceprevir because of my high gammaglobulin and because there are very few trials here in Argentina. Also frankly because Interferon + Ribavirin really put me off. I can't tango while scratching riba-rash.
So what I did was study up on what causes liver fibrosis. I found that it was mostly the oxidation of hepatic cells going on in the liver, so I prescribed for myself - with the go-ahead of a hep MD - a regime of antioxidants. These are PPC [polyenylphosphatidylcholine, as Phoschol], ALA [alpha lipoic acid], milk thistle [as Siliphos], and vitamin E [as mixed tocopherols]. I chose these four antioxidants because they have been tested and shown to reduce hepatic oxidation and/or liver damage and not to have serious negative side effects.
I started taking them almost two years ago, at a point when my hepatic enzymes had both reached 100 and my platelets had dropped to around 115k. A few months after beginning the antioxidant regime coupled with a strict non-fat diet of healthy foods like grains, fruit, and raw vegetables, my hepatic enzymes have gone down to the high end of the normal range [41 and 44 in an April 2011 blood test], and my platelets, which had been dropping steadily for years, are holding at 135k.
I'm content. If, with the aid of this regime, I can hold the fort and wait for the approval of a more effective and less dangerous therapy, I think I've done the right thing. For me.
If this is useful to others, well and good. I have no idea if what I'm doing will work for other people. I offer it as a personal experience. The antioxidants appear to be working for me. My hep MDs [I have two] can hardly believe the results of my recent blood analyses and are totally on my side.
All this said, I plan to have a new biopsy this year because blood test results are not conclusive of the extent of fibrosis. They are supposed to be a sign of current liver cell destruction and liver function, nothing more. Biopsy is no sure thing, either, as many have pointed out here and as more and more articles attest, since fibrosis is not always uniform in the liver as was once believed. But biopsy is the best test we've got. So I'll do another, while sticking to my antioxidants.
I hope you will excuse my long-windedness and my little jokes, and that this info is of some use.
Cheers to all!
Mike
It's been quite a while since I posted [not long enough for some, I'm sure], but I have an update that may be of interest, which I propose to share with those who want it, in my inimitable if much-maligned style. And for those who don't want it, I say phooey.
Before I get into it, though, I just want to say a special Hi! to my friends trish, aheart, nygirl, james, bali, susi, figuy, hector, willing, mary, gsd, goofydad, lauri, walrus, desrt, marcy, and all my other dear friends who I see from looking over recent posts are still active in the forum. I love you all very much. And I don't use that word lightly.
Now to the gist. First, I still haven't done tx three years after being diagnosed HCV+. Why? because I'm 67, genotype 1, and have a high viral count, and I don't like my chances [around 35%] with standard antiviral therapy. I haven't been able to get into a trial of the newer meds like Teleprevir and Boceprevir because of my high gammaglobulin and because there are very few trials here in Argentina. Also frankly because Interferon + Ribavirin really put me off. I can't tango while scratching riba-rash.
So what I did was study up on what causes liver fibrosis. I found that it was mostly the oxidation of hepatic cells going on in the liver, so I prescribed for myself - with the go-ahead of a hep MD - a regime of antioxidants. These are PPC [polyenylphosphatidylcholine, as Phoschol], ALA [alpha lipoic acid], milk thistle [as Siliphos], and vitamin E [as mixed tocopherols]. I chose these four antioxidants because they have been tested and shown to reduce hepatic oxidation and/or liver damage and not to have serious negative side effects.
I started taking them almost two years ago, at a point when my hepatic enzymes had both reached 100 and my platelets had dropped to around 115k. A few months after beginning the antioxidant regime coupled with a strict non-fat diet of healthy foods like grains, fruit, and raw vegetables, my hepatic enzymes have gone down to the high end of the normal range [41 and 44 in an April 2011 blood test], and my platelets, which had been dropping steadily for years, are holding at 135k.
I'm content. If, with the aid of this regime, I can hold the fort and wait for the approval of a more effective and less dangerous therapy, I think I've done the right thing. For me.
If this is useful to others, well and good. I have no idea if what I'm doing will work for other people. I offer it as a personal experience. The antioxidants appear to be working for me. My hep MDs [I have two] can hardly believe the results of my recent blood analyses and are totally on my side.
All this said, I plan to have a new biopsy this year because blood test results are not conclusive of the extent of fibrosis. They are supposed to be a sign of current liver cell destruction and liver function, nothing more. Biopsy is no sure thing, either, as many have pointed out here and as more and more articles attest, since fibrosis is not always uniform in the liver as was once believed. But biopsy is the best test we've got. So I'll do another, while sticking to my antioxidants.
I hope you will excuse my long-windedness and my little jokes, and that this info is of some use.
Cheers to all!
Mike
This easy-to-read paper is from 2006: http://www.hepatitistechnologies.com/images/reversal_of_hepatic_fibrosis.pdf
From my hepatologist in 2009:
"No real progress in antifibrotics of late, but hopefully in next 3-5 years? Your body's natural enzymes should be good enough (metalloproteinases)"
"No real progress in antifibrotics of late, but hopefully in next 3-5 years? Your body's natural enzymes should be good enough (metalloproteinases)"
"Clin Infect Dis. 2011 Apr;52(7):889-900.
Sustained virologic response to antiviral therapy for chronic hepatitis C virus infection: a cure and so much more.
Pearlman BL, Traub N.
Sustained virologic response (SVR) is defined as aviremia 24 weeks after completion of antiviral therapy for chronic hepatitis C virus (HCV) infection. In analyses of SVR durability, the incidence of late relapse is extremely low (<1%). Histologic regression of both necroinflammation and fibrosis has been demonstrated in paired liver biopsy samples in SVR-achieving patients. More noteworthy is the sustained responder's favorable prognosis even with baseline cirrhosis; despite mostly retrospective analyses, relative to nonresponders or to those untreated, patients with SVR have significantly fewer liver-related complications, less hepatocellular carcinoma, and fewer liver-related deaths. Although HCV is associated with insulin resistance, successful eradication of HCV appears to reduce the risk of impaired fasting glucose and diabetes development. In summary, chronic HCV infection is curable with SVR attainment, and with cure comes improved liver histology and more favorable clinical outcomes, in comparison with patients who do not achieve the same therapeutic milestone."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21427396
Sustained virologic response to antiviral therapy for chronic hepatitis C virus infection: a cure and so much more.
Pearlman BL, Traub N.
Sustained virologic response (SVR) is defined as aviremia 24 weeks after completion of antiviral therapy for chronic hepatitis C virus (HCV) infection. In analyses of SVR durability, the incidence of late relapse is extremely low (<1%). Histologic regression of both necroinflammation and fibrosis has been demonstrated in paired liver biopsy samples in SVR-achieving patients. More noteworthy is the sustained responder's favorable prognosis even with baseline cirrhosis; despite mostly retrospective analyses, relative to nonresponders or to those untreated, patients with SVR have significantly fewer liver-related complications, less hepatocellular carcinoma, and fewer liver-related deaths. Although HCV is associated with insulin resistance, successful eradication of HCV appears to reduce the risk of impaired fasting glucose and diabetes development. In summary, chronic HCV infection is curable with SVR attainment, and with cure comes improved liver histology and more favorable clinical outcomes, in comparison with patients who do not achieve the same therapeutic milestone."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21427396
He stated that Fibrosis is "dead tissue" and how can you bring dead tissue back to life?
how can he be so ingorant, tell him to go back to study.fibrosis is made of alive cells, just different type than liver and is the same and common on many organs not only liver.
on hbv we have an antiviral from 2005 that reverses advanced cirrhosis on biopsy by 3-6years, it just needs to be compensated.i know this quite well because it is happening to me as well
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_yFgxI8KNcRODYzYzY4NzItMTkxNS00YTdkLThlMmItZmEzZWMzMzI1MjFm&hl=en
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_yFgxI8KNcRYTA2OTRkMmUtYzlmOS00MjgyLThmNjgtYWUyOWI1ZTJjYmFm&hl=en
http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2009icr/ddw/posters/DDW_Poster1808_Advanced%20fibrosis_cirrhosis.pdf
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7396/is_330/ai_n56632293/?tag=mantle_skin;content
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