Antioxidants, blood analyses, and fibrosis update

[mike716]

Hello medhelpers, fellow sufferers of hep C, forum lurkers, people who got here by a wrong mouse click, and all victims of the medical profession. Greetings from Buenos Aires!

It's been quite a while since I posted [not long enough for some, I'm sure], but I have an update that may be of interest, which I propose to share with those who want it, in my inimitable if much-maligned style. And for those who don't want it, I say phooey.

Before I get into it, though, I just want to say a special Hi! to my friends trish, aheart, nygirl, james, bali, susi, figuy, hector, willing, mary, gsd, goofydad, lauri, walrus, desrt, marcy, and all my other dear friends who I see from looking over recent posts are still active in the forum. I love you all very much. And I don't use that word lightly.

Now to the gist. First, I still haven't done tx three years after being diagnosed HCV+. Why? because I'm 67, genotype 1, and have a high viral count, and I don't like my chances [around 35%] with standard antiviral therapy. I haven't been able to get into a trial of the newer meds like Teleprevir and Boceprevir because of my high gammaglobulin and because there are very few trials here in Argentina. Also frankly because Interferon + Ribavirin really put me off. I can't tango while scratching riba-rash.

So what I did was study up on what causes liver fibrosis. I found that it was mostly the oxidation of hepatic cells going on in the liver, so I prescribed for myself - with the go-ahead of a hep MD - a regime of antioxidants. These are PPC [polyenylphosphatidylcholine, as Phoschol], ALA [alpha lipoic acid], milk thistle [as Siliphos], and vitamin E [as mixed tocopherols]. I chose these four antioxidants because they have been tested and shown to reduce hepatic oxidation and/or liver damage and not to have serious negative side effects.

I started taking them almost two years ago, at a point when my hepatic enzymes had both reached 100 and my platelets had dropped to around 115k. A few months after beginning the antioxidant regime coupled with a strict non-fat diet of healthy foods like grains, fruit, and raw vegetables, my hepatic enzymes have gone down to the high end of the normal range [41 and 44 in an April 2011 blood test], and my platelets, which had been dropping steadily for years, are holding at 135k.

I'm content. If, with the aid of this regime, I can hold the fort and wait for the approval of a more effective and less dangerous therapy, I think I've done the right thing. For me.

If this is useful to others, well and good. I have no idea if what I'm doing will work for other people. I offer it as a personal experience. The antioxidants appear to be working for me. My hep MDs [I have two] can hardly believe the results of my recent blood analyses and are totally on my side.

All this said, I plan to have a new biopsy this year because blood test results are not conclusive of the extent of fibrosis. They are supposed to be a sign of current liver cell destruction and liver function, nothing more. Biopsy is no sure thing, either, as many have pointed out here and as more and more articles attest, since fibrosis is not always uniform in the liver as was once believed. But biopsy is the best test we've got. So I'll do another, while sticking to my antioxidants.

I hope you will excuse my long-windedness and my little jokes, and that this info is of some use.

Cheers to all!

Mike

[stef2011]

also this discussion might be useful about a recent study that linked chol to fibrosis and of course excess of chol or oxidated chol is linked with oxidative stress

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Hepatitis-B/formation-of-fibrosis-cirrhosis-due-to-cholesterol-fat/show/1496407

what we have on hbv cannot be applied to hbv because our antiviral entecavir reverses cirrhosis on biopsy by 3-6 years even with no antioxidants

[paen53]

It's good to read that your supps and healthy lifestyle seem to be keeping your liver inflammation in check. I'm post tx and SVR now, but still keep to a healthy lifestyle to keep my liver from deteriorating anymore AND in hopes of reversing some of the damage done. Even if it's only a stage, it's one more step away from where I am currently. I strongly believe it is possible, even with cirrhosis to turn things around, barring any other issues that may come into play as I grow older.

I don't know what the results were of your initial biopsy, but if enough time has passed, then another would be a wise decision. Keep an eye on those platelets and some of the other blood markers like albumin, INR, bili and such as they can often give a head's up with further liver damage.

Hopefully one day in the near future, IN will be out of the mix and new drugs will prove to be more efficacious and less toxic for all.

Best of luck to you, Pam

[lolitriqui]

Hi; I don't know whether you remember me but I think you made a wise decision; 67 high count gen1 to me is a no brainer for not to start TX; interf/riba is a poison; you have really nothing to gain from it except feeling like dogsh$$; for me, TX didn't stop with the last pill, it's over two years past and I slowly get back to somewhat of a normal life including all the physio/psycho and everything else; my accountant, he died with 93 a few months ago, had gen1 since 1942 as he got a transfusion in WW2; at this point, trying alternative ways seems the way to go; don't expose yourself to a few years of torture if you don't have to...

[nygirl7]

Hi Mike I dont have much to add except to say it's awfully great to see you posting.

I'm going to add some more supplements into my diet (I'm getting old and my liver isnt getting any younger either) so I appreciate the input.

I hope they come out with an inf/riba free drug soon for you and for everyone. Then you can keep on dancin'.......dancin'.......dancin.........

Love Deb

[stef2011]

hi mike, glad to hear antioxidants work for you too, having an active virus in the liver the result is even more interesting.i am doing the same on hbv but easier because antiviral clears virus

i am also using antioxidants especially blackrice and blueberries/berries in my diet and lately resolved all fat tissue from bmi 26 to 21 now.it just took about 3 months.fatty liver US on end of may to see if it cleared fat in the liver too

i post to suggest also glutathione in liposomes from livonlabs.
glutathione without liposomes is useless because it can t be absorbed but with liposomos it will get inside cells
i used it mainly to lower intracellular cholesterol (artherosclerosis article reversal of laques by 3 months in mise) not only because it is know as the most potent antioxidant.all chol fell down a lot

hep tech trials will be finished in june we might see from them how antioxidants work on severe fibrosis too

[his3707]

Ive always been a believer that everyones experience is relevant and lots of times some irrelevant chatter is good to take our focus off this virus.  There are so many of us that are non responders etc, we need to hear ideas that can be investigated to help us  "hold the fort down" until the better treatments are unleashed.  I feel that time is right around the corner.  Unfortunately for me I think now is the time to start moving.  I have some recent posts you can look at to see what is going on and I also started a journal since I expect to start treatment about may 15th if i clear the screening requirements for a telaprevir dosing study that is going on.  BTW some study sites for this trial are in Brazil.  Not exactly where you are at but at least on the same continent.  I was hoping to hold out for the non interferon drug cocktail but the fibrosis seems to be pretty active right now for me.  I will have my biopsy Friday the 29th  and it will be interesting to see how it compares to all the blood marker tests I have done to keep an eye on my liver.      
Phooey on the critics...  Keep posting...