Antioxidants, blood analyses, and fibrosis update

[mike716]

Hello medhelpers, fellow sufferers of hep C, forum lurkers, people who got here by a wrong mouse click, and all victims of the medical profession. Greetings from Buenos Aires!

It's been quite a while since I posted [not long enough for some, I'm sure], but I have an update that may be of interest, which I propose to share with those who want it, in my inimitable if much-maligned style. And for those who don't want it, I say phooey.

Before I get into it, though, I just want to say a special Hi! to my friends trish, aheart, nygirl, james, bali, susi, figuy, hector, willing, mary, gsd, goofydad, lauri, walrus, desrt, marcy, and all my other dear friends who I see from looking over recent posts are still active in the forum. I love you all very much. And I don't use that word lightly.

Now to the gist. First, I still haven't done tx three years after being diagnosed HCV+. Why? because I'm 67, genotype 1, and have a high viral count, and I don't like my chances [around 35%] with standard antiviral therapy. I haven't been able to get into a trial of the newer meds like Teleprevir and Boceprevir because of my high gammaglobulin and because there are very few trials here in Argentina. Also frankly because Interferon + Ribavirin really put me off. I can't tango while scratching riba-rash.

So what I did was study up on what causes liver fibrosis. I found that it was mostly the oxidation of hepatic cells going on in the liver, so I prescribed for myself - with the go-ahead of a hep MD - a regime of antioxidants. These are PPC [polyenylphosphatidylcholine, as Phoschol], ALA [alpha lipoic acid], milk thistle [as Siliphos], and vitamin E [as mixed tocopherols]. I chose these four antioxidants because they have been tested and shown to reduce hepatic oxidation and/or liver damage and not to have serious negative side effects.

I started taking them almost two years ago, at a point when my hepatic enzymes had both reached 100 and my platelets had dropped to around 115k. A few months after beginning the antioxidant regime coupled with a strict non-fat diet of healthy foods like grains, fruit, and raw vegetables, my hepatic enzymes have gone down to the high end of the normal range [41 and 44 in an April 2011 blood test], and my platelets, which had been dropping steadily for years, are holding at 135k.

I'm content. If, with the aid of this regime, I can hold the fort and wait for the approval of a more effective and less dangerous therapy, I think I've done the right thing. For me.

If this is useful to others, well and good. I have no idea if what I'm doing will work for other people. I offer it as a personal experience. The antioxidants appear to be working for me. My hep MDs [I have two] can hardly believe the results of my recent blood analyses and are totally on my side.

All this said, I plan to have a new biopsy this year because blood test results are not conclusive of the extent of fibrosis. They are supposed to be a sign of current liver cell destruction and liver function, nothing more. Biopsy is no sure thing, either, as many have pointed out here and as more and more articles attest, since fibrosis is not always uniform in the liver as was once believed. But biopsy is the best test we've got. So I'll do another, while sticking to my antioxidants.

I hope you will excuse my long-windedness and my little jokes, and that this info is of some use.

Cheers to all!

Mike

[desrt]

Always good to hear from you. If you haven't done any research on CoEnzymeQ10, it's worth a read. Though generally advertised as an 'anti-oxidant', it has special importance to cell mitochondria, an area where HCV does a lot its worst damage. It's something we absorb enough of from a healthy diet until we hit our fortys, at which point our body's ability to assimilate it decreases.
Take care.

[Bali05]

Hey Mike,
Great to hear from you. Was actually thinking of you these past months
and I am happy to hear you are doing well.
You remind me of my pre tx trials&tribulations and who knows if I ever have to go back to
that.This is how crazy of a world we live in , before I  started my tx (50wks ago) I was
kicking and screaming not wanting to do it  and today I extended my tx simply because
of own choosing to be more comfortable.I totally respect your point of view.With my
current level of experience I would try 4 - 12wks of SOC if I were you to see how well
you respond. It could be far better than the 35% you think of and you will never know
unless you try. A couple of months of tx to check your response pattern are really
not that bad. Early viral kinetics are still the strongest predictor !
Just my two cents.....
Again great to hear from you and let`s stay in touch.

b
wk50 of 60

[Trish77]

"I'm content. If, with the aid of this regime, I can hold the fort and wait for the approval of a more effective and less dangerous therapy, I think I've done the right thing. For me. "

"All this said, I plan to have a new biopsy this year because blood test results are not conclusive of the extent of fibrosis. They are supposed to be a sign of current liver cell destruction and liver function, nothing more. Biopsy is no sure thing, either, as many have pointed out here and as more and more articles attest, since fibrosis is not always uniform in the liver as was once believed. But biopsy is the best test we've got. So I'll do another, while sticking to my antioxidants. "

Hi there, Mike.  Nice to read the above statement that you are content.  That's been a little hard to come by for you as you sifted through everything and there is a lot to sift through.  This is a pretty individual journey.  While your choice might be very different from what some might go for, it's a rather lucid explanation of your choice and why it's good for you.  I wish you well with this.  Hope you'll drop in with results of that biopsy as well.

Hope you're keeping well in other regards and that life is good.

Regards,

Trish

[mike716]

Correction to my original post: My hepatic enzymes didn't go down to within normal range a few months after starting to take the antioxidants, as is implied there. It's taken two years to get them down that far.

On the other hand, they did start down soon after beginning the program and have steadily diminished ever since.

Maybe I should add that I've always been highly reactive to external and internal biological changes. I'm thin, have a fast metabolism, and have kept myself in overall good condition through the years. So I'm a good subject for drug trials like the antioxidant regime.

M.

[mike716]

Hi! Thanks for the encouragement to post. I tend not to do it much any more so as not to clutter up the forum with a lot of irrelevant talk when so many people are sicker than me and need urgent help. In this case, my continuously improving bloods finally forced me to share the info.

I feel poorly about not contributing more to the forum and helping newbies and others who have questions I might help to answer. But I've gotten static for my opinions, admittedly highly non-conformist, and I have enough trouble getting along in a semi-hostile foreign country without that.

How are you doing? What's your current status [virological, not matrimonial {grin}]?

Cheers!

Mike

[mike716]

Be careful about dosage. Nothing is safe taken in the wrong dose.

M.