Aa
fuzheng huayu...we are Behind the curve on fibrosis
http://wjg.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/4/348.pdf
http://www.cmjournal.org/content/4/1/12
legal in China since 2002....
check out the slides....best antifibrotic results I've seen.
new legislation now on the hill will prevent us from ever getting this.
discussion?
http://www.cmjournal.org/content/4/1/12
legal in China since 2002....
check out the slides....best antifibrotic results I've seen.
new legislation now on the hill will prevent us from ever getting this.
discussion?
The treated group orally took 1.5g 319 recipe, tid,
composed of Semen Persicase,
Don't get me wrong - I've been known to take one for the team.... but I dunno 'bout this......
composed of Semen Persicase,
Don't get me wrong - I've been known to take one for the team.... but I dunno 'bout this......
groan !!!!!!!!!
leave it to you Goofy to notice than....only you would!!!!!
not to worry, it's only peach kernal...but I could see how you might be alarmed...giggle.
did you check out the slides on those links though?? Pretty impressive I thought.
mb
leave it to you Goofy to notice than....only you would!!!!!
not to worry, it's only peach kernal...but I could see how you might be alarmed...giggle.
did you check out the slides on those links though?? Pretty impressive I thought.
mb
Legal in China - the people who brought you poison toothpaste and lead paint on your toys. There's a ringing endorsement.
Hi merry Be, thank you for this Chines medicament, but , does anyone knows, where we, with fibrotic livers can buy this product, and what is approx. price for it?
Lolak, everyone!
Lolak, everyone!
read the abstracts. and LOOK at the slides.
melamine...and lead....yes and the USA gave us 1000 superfund sites, brownsville, love canal, and so what's your point?
truth is we get 80% of all our drugs from overseas...
I have contacted a chinese pharmaceutical company, specializing in injectable grade extract, salvvianolic acid b....am waiting for reply.
I'll have to find chemically pure versions of all three and have them shipped.
I'm figuring the top 3 ingedients should help., so the peach kernal and mushroom I'll also look into.
as long as the HCV is ongoing the fibrosis will advance.
If you all will just take the time to LOOK at the study you will see why I'm excited.
there is a clinical trial about to ensue in San diego on this...which I've already inquired into but haven't heard back yet.
Go to clinicaltrials.gov and type in fuzheng huayu and it'll come up.
melamine...and lead....yes and the USA gave us 1000 superfund sites, brownsville, love canal, and so what's your point?
truth is we get 80% of all our drugs from overseas...
I have contacted a chinese pharmaceutical company, specializing in injectable grade extract, salvvianolic acid b....am waiting for reply.
I'll have to find chemically pure versions of all three and have them shipped.
I'm figuring the top 3 ingedients should help., so the peach kernal and mushroom I'll also look into.
as long as the HCV is ongoing the fibrosis will advance.
If you all will just take the time to LOOK at the study you will see why I'm excited.
there is a clinical trial about to ensue in San diego on this...which I've already inquired into but haven't heard back yet.
Go to clinicaltrials.gov and type in fuzheng huayu and it'll come up.
Yes, thank you merryBe,
I guess, they are just intriguing us with all those informations, and live us not much space to look for it. OK, you made some move, if you get any informations, let us know. I will try to find a informations myself.
I guess, they are just intriguing us with all those informations, and live us not much space to look for it. OK, you made some move, if you get any informations, let us know. I will try to find a informations myself.
I think my point is pretty clear.
Superfund sites and the Love Canal are not consumer products, are they? Its a bit disingenuous to try and fit them into the same category.
Superfund sites and the Love Canal are not consumer products, are they? Its a bit disingenuous to try and fit them into the same category.
hmm dumping things into the soil, the airshed, the food supply....different yet the same outcome. Intent is what I reference.
How many years do you think some companies knew about how toxic their soups were and yet still exposed people to it. We are no different than the Chinese here.
Some idiot discovered melamine boosted the protein test result...and another poor shlep bought contaminated paint from a vendor he trusted (the guy later took his own life because he couldn't bear the shame of his mistake, something we would never do, feel shame) but all his employees said he had no idea there was lead in his paint.
On the other hand, here we continue to sell products for weeks months or years before they get pulled. FDA approval of drugs requires only that efficacy be established, not safety. Safety is established in the general public...by the death or servere sides of thousands....then and only then does stuff get pulled...and then even it doesn't, unless the law suits mount up too high.
How about the zinc in Zicam nasal spray causing loss of taste...how about nitates in meats....see them rushing to ban this carcinogen? Hardly.
I'm not saying any of this is right, just that the Chinese don't have a corner on greed or carelessness. We are just as guilty of the same behaviors. Companies hate to see products pulled when they've invested millions in them, and cover ups are a regular part of life on this planet, everywhere.
How many years do you think some companies knew about how toxic their soups were and yet still exposed people to it. We are no different than the Chinese here.
Some idiot discovered melamine boosted the protein test result...and another poor shlep bought contaminated paint from a vendor he trusted (the guy later took his own life because he couldn't bear the shame of his mistake, something we would never do, feel shame) but all his employees said he had no idea there was lead in his paint.
On the other hand, here we continue to sell products for weeks months or years before they get pulled. FDA approval of drugs requires only that efficacy be established, not safety. Safety is established in the general public...by the death or servere sides of thousands....then and only then does stuff get pulled...and then even it doesn't, unless the law suits mount up too high.
How about the zinc in Zicam nasal spray causing loss of taste...how about nitates in meats....see them rushing to ban this carcinogen? Hardly.
I'm not saying any of this is right, just that the Chinese don't have a corner on greed or carelessness. We are just as guilty of the same behaviors. Companies hate to see products pulled when they've invested millions in them, and cover ups are a regular part of life on this planet, everywhere.
I read the abstract and looked at the slides. I think everybody should be a little less cynical about this. The Chinese have been treating liver issues for thousands of years, long before modern medicine had any idea how a damaged liver could affect the wellbeing of a person. One might consider their longevity and lack of obesity before they started being influenced by Western culture. Yes, we are mainly dealing with a virus here, but as the article points out, once we reach SVR, the fibrosis is still an issue that needs to be dealt with.
Thanks for the link... I've saved it to my desktop since lately I can't remember details for long.
Thanks for the link... I've saved it to my desktop since lately I can't remember details for long.
Thank YOU for doing that!!!
that's all I was suggesting, was that we LOOK at the abstracts before passing judgment. WOW.
even if one cannot understand the 10 pages of chemical data the slides speak for themselves, a picture, as they say is worth a thousand word.
I'm not as concerned about whether a product was producded in the laboratory test tube, or the laboratory of the earth.
the real question should be what compounds work, not what is most profitable, not what man vs. nature created. The goal here is to heal, ergo we need to follow the science whereever it may lead.
that's all I was suggesting, was that we LOOK at the abstracts before passing judgment. WOW.
even if one cannot understand the 10 pages of chemical data the slides speak for themselves, a picture, as they say is worth a thousand word.
I'm not as concerned about whether a product was producded in the laboratory test tube, or the laboratory of the earth.
the real question should be what compounds work, not what is most profitable, not what man vs. nature created. The goal here is to heal, ergo we need to follow the science whereever it may lead.
yes I am but I have an issue
my research brough up some concerns with his formulas.
cheif among them is his heavy use of liqorice.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/817578-overview
here's the rub as I see it....are there benefits with this herb, yes, but it is heavily overused...and here's the issue with liver disease.
Say you were stage 1, or 2 even, ok...not a huge issue, the benefits may outweigh the risks, but we have to LOOK at the chemistry, the science that is known.
We have to think of herbs AS DRUGS, because they are...and find those that help but don'r harm.
when youget to stage 3 and 4 liqorice could prove problematic. Why?
because it increases blood pressure. And what does HCV do? it increase blood pressure in the liver to dngerous levels. A late stage liver can have a 2 or even 3 times greater liver blood pressure than the rest of the body. this is because the scar tissue prevents normal blood flow, and the body compensates by increasing pressure to try to force blood to flow. This pressure is what leads to late stage complications like internal bleeds, ascites, esophogeal varices etc.
So the question is, how much do we want to increase blood flow then?
Answer, I don't...I think this is counterintuitive, and that an antifibotic approach is a much better fit.
Not the Zhang hasn't figured some things out, obviously ways to control glycogen, etc...but I already do those with known well researched quantites such as CoQ10 and lipoic acid etc etc.
I'm not sure if Zhang distinguishes between what should be done at stage 4 vs. stage 1...perhaps he does, so I shouldn't say.
We would all like to know his answer to this, since it is something often overlooked by those convinced herbs are the answer.
I think they are and can be part of the answer, but that we need to look at the contraindications not just the indications if we are going to arrive at safe formulas for all patients. Certainly we need to assess risk vs. benefit before going headlong into any new regimes.
That said, I'm in favor of any source that will help overcome or lessen the effects of this disease and extend longevity....I'm just not sure increasing my blood pressure is in my stage 4 livers best interest...quite the opposite actually.
my research brough up some concerns with his formulas.
cheif among them is his heavy use of liqorice.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/817578-overview
here's the rub as I see it....are there benefits with this herb, yes, but it is heavily overused...and here's the issue with liver disease.
Say you were stage 1, or 2 even, ok...not a huge issue, the benefits may outweigh the risks, but we have to LOOK at the chemistry, the science that is known.
We have to think of herbs AS DRUGS, because they are...and find those that help but don'r harm.
when youget to stage 3 and 4 liqorice could prove problematic. Why?
because it increases blood pressure. And what does HCV do? it increase blood pressure in the liver to dngerous levels. A late stage liver can have a 2 or even 3 times greater liver blood pressure than the rest of the body. this is because the scar tissue prevents normal blood flow, and the body compensates by increasing pressure to try to force blood to flow. This pressure is what leads to late stage complications like internal bleeds, ascites, esophogeal varices etc.
So the question is, how much do we want to increase blood flow then?
Answer, I don't...I think this is counterintuitive, and that an antifibotic approach is a much better fit.
Not the Zhang hasn't figured some things out, obviously ways to control glycogen, etc...but I already do those with known well researched quantites such as CoQ10 and lipoic acid etc etc.
I'm not sure if Zhang distinguishes between what should be done at stage 4 vs. stage 1...perhaps he does, so I shouldn't say.
We would all like to know his answer to this, since it is something often overlooked by those convinced herbs are the answer.
I think they are and can be part of the answer, but that we need to look at the contraindications not just the indications if we are going to arrive at safe formulas for all patients. Certainly we need to assess risk vs. benefit before going headlong into any new regimes.
That said, I'm in favor of any source that will help overcome or lessen the effects of this disease and extend longevity....I'm just not sure increasing my blood pressure is in my stage 4 livers best interest...quite the opposite actually.
actually he does distinguish between stages. There is is another forum member
that like me started Zhang at about the same time. He was more advanced
than I am and got a different protocol.
Dr. Zhang uses Glycrrhizin for people who don`t have bloodpressure problem
because it helps lower enzymes.When I mentioned possible bp problems he took
it out of my protocol.
I did his protocol without it and my enzymes came down just as well.
He very much focuses on reducing inflammation and right after that fibrosis.
Just went to see him the other day for a check up and he claims to see
a lot of his patients better their fibrosis or worse case scenario stay the same.
If you want proof you need to do baseline bx.
Have not had normal enzymes in a year after starting Zhang I do.
I know this because I stopped taking his herbs for 6 weeks and they went back
up. Started them again and they went back to normal range. Got all the labs.
In June09 ALT 65 GGT 63 AST norm , Oct09 ALT63 GGT64 ASTnorm started
Zhang in Nov09 and in Feb10 my ALT 32 GGT 24 AST norm.
Hope it will stay this way.
that like me started Zhang at about the same time. He was more advanced
than I am and got a different protocol.
Dr. Zhang uses Glycrrhizin for people who don`t have bloodpressure problem
because it helps lower enzymes.When I mentioned possible bp problems he took
it out of my protocol.
I did his protocol without it and my enzymes came down just as well.
He very much focuses on reducing inflammation and right after that fibrosis.
Just went to see him the other day for a check up and he claims to see
a lot of his patients better their fibrosis or worse case scenario stay the same.
If you want proof you need to do baseline bx.
Have not had normal enzymes in a year after starting Zhang I do.
I know this because I stopped taking his herbs for 6 weeks and they went back
up. Started them again and they went back to normal range. Got all the labs.
In June09 ALT 65 GGT 63 AST norm , Oct09 ALT63 GGT64 ASTnorm started
Zhang in Nov09 and in Feb10 my ALT 32 GGT 24 AST norm.
Hope it will stay this way.
When I started taking Zhang my enzymes were around AST 100, ALT 150.
Three months later they were AST 37 ALT 42 - both solid mid-normal.
I believe that there are an infinite number of very similar proprietary formulas based on TCM herbs, but the main ingredients are the same because they are based on old TCM formulas. In order to retain proprietary interests they use different proportions of primary and secondary herbs, but the main TCM herbs are the same. Modern Chinese Medicine (as opposed to TCM) seeks to validate TCM based formulas using clinical trials. Dr. Zhang is very much tapped into the latest in Modern Chinese Medicine. Dr. Zhang is both Harvard Medical and TCM trained. Dr. Weil refers all of his hep c patients to Dr. Zhang.
I think the excellent results in the FZHY research were based simply on the fact that this happened to be the formula they tested. The research certainly does not establish FZHY to be superior to other similar formulas, it simply establishes the efficaciousness of this particular formula. Dr. Zhang's herbs are quite similar, as are many other TCM or MCM formulas, and may test out equally efficacious, if given the chance.
One of the main herbal ingredients is Salviae mittorrhiza - red sage root. Activated hepatic stellate cells contain muscle cell-like actin fibers. These ASCs grow around the blood vessels and the actin fibers contract to cut off circulation in the liver. Salvia makes the actin fibers relax, thus increasing the microcirculation in the liver, as well as decreasing the hepatic portal system pressure. Modern Chinese formulas are based largely on the action of Salvia to allow deeper blood perfusion into the liver cells. Collagen resorption can then be stimulated by the body's own metalloproteinases as well as other antifibrotics herbs and nutrients.
Three months later they were AST 37 ALT 42 - both solid mid-normal.
I believe that there are an infinite number of very similar proprietary formulas based on TCM herbs, but the main ingredients are the same because they are based on old TCM formulas. In order to retain proprietary interests they use different proportions of primary and secondary herbs, but the main TCM herbs are the same. Modern Chinese Medicine (as opposed to TCM) seeks to validate TCM based formulas using clinical trials. Dr. Zhang is very much tapped into the latest in Modern Chinese Medicine. Dr. Zhang is both Harvard Medical and TCM trained. Dr. Weil refers all of his hep c patients to Dr. Zhang.
I think the excellent results in the FZHY research were based simply on the fact that this happened to be the formula they tested. The research certainly does not establish FZHY to be superior to other similar formulas, it simply establishes the efficaciousness of this particular formula. Dr. Zhang's herbs are quite similar, as are many other TCM or MCM formulas, and may test out equally efficacious, if given the chance.
One of the main herbal ingredients is Salviae mittorrhiza - red sage root. Activated hepatic stellate cells contain muscle cell-like actin fibers. These ASCs grow around the blood vessels and the actin fibers contract to cut off circulation in the liver. Salvia makes the actin fibers relax, thus increasing the microcirculation in the liver, as well as decreasing the hepatic portal system pressure. Modern Chinese formulas are based largely on the action of Salvia to allow deeper blood perfusion into the liver cells. Collagen resorption can then be stimulated by the body's own metalloproteinases as well as other antifibrotics herbs and nutrients.
thanks, it's good to hear he's not using the liqorice on stage four. That goes a long way in my book.
I agree the dashan, red sage, is the main component, that's why I've been looking for pharmaceutical grade.
Obviously the slides don't lie, the control group showed little change and the EZHY tissue returned almost to normal. Since the control group was given vitamins B and C
I think it's safe to say those vitamins are not as efficatous as earlier studies suggested, but the FZHY did show remarkable restructuring capacity.
Maybe I'll do the phone consult and see what he uses....the abstract list the ingredients, but the amounts taken were staggering...who can consume those amounts.
Besides, my research suggests Salviae need micronizing for good absorption.
Like many herbs the unrefined forms have little absorption.
Rather than just hope I'm absorbing enough to be therapeutic I'd like to arrive at the best method of intake and the most absorbable form.
I agree the dashan, red sage, is the main component, that's why I've been looking for pharmaceutical grade.
Obviously the slides don't lie, the control group showed little change and the EZHY tissue returned almost to normal. Since the control group was given vitamins B and C
I think it's safe to say those vitamins are not as efficatous as earlier studies suggested, but the FZHY did show remarkable restructuring capacity.
Maybe I'll do the phone consult and see what he uses....the abstract list the ingredients, but the amounts taken were staggering...who can consume those amounts.
Besides, my research suggests Salviae need micronizing for good absorption.
Like many herbs the unrefined forms have little absorption.
Rather than just hope I'm absorbing enough to be therapeutic I'd like to arrive at the best method of intake and the most absorbable form.
I've found a local MD. internist with great credentials, summa *** laude, extensive researcher in several areas where I have issues including endocrinology.
Also speaks fluent mandarin and believes in Chinese as well as Western medicine.
I'm hoping he can help me arrive at the right formula and supervise my results.
Seems like a local versed in the alternatives might be advantageous.
mb
Also speaks fluent mandarin and believes in Chinese as well as Western medicine.
I'm hoping he can help me arrive at the right formula and supervise my results.
Seems like a local versed in the alternatives might be advantageous.
mb
1 Comments
Hi MerryBe
though its lot of time elapsed since this post, what is the current status of this Huayu Formula for treating Fibrosis
Where the local MD Internist is based, I would like to take a measured risk in trying TCM formula for the significant fibrosis I have
Inder
though its lot of time elapsed since this post, what is the current status of this Huayu Formula for treating Fibrosis
Where the local MD Internist is based, I would like to take a measured risk in trying TCM formula for the significant fibrosis I have
Inder
Im post liver transplant with recurrent hep c . New liver after 3 years is stage 3 fibrosis. I think fuzheng huaya works and i have a guy who can make it for me . Heres the problem ! Has it ever been used on post transplant people and is it safe to take with my immunosuppressants,cyclosporine and cellcept. If there is an interaction I could reject my liver. Do you know any thing about this type of situation?
Please ask your DOCTOR about this and do not take the advice of someone on the internet, no matter how well intentioned, none of us are doctors (even though some act like it at times) and we do NOT know your history or most of us even about transplant.
Your liver is too important to risk.
Your liver is too important to risk.
there is a clinical trial with fuzheng huayu..I met someone in my Dr's office last week that just finished a year protocol.. It can be found on the clinical trials . gov site. This particular patient went from a 3 stage to a 1 in the year. He did say he had to withstand a pretty terrible rash. Good luck whatever you do..
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