Aa
Overweight (high BMI) and Treating...
I'm 1 month post treatment with SOC.
What is so wrong about people with a high BMI being encouraged to try treatment? If it doesn't work by 4 or 12 weeks they can just stop the way any other treater can stop. Why can't we be encouraged too? The reason I'm putting this out there is because I don't feel that there is a whole lot of support for the individuals who have a high BMI and are thinking of treating. In fact I've seen them discouraged!
What is so wrong about people with a high BMI being encouraged to try treatment? If it doesn't work by 4 or 12 weeks they can just stop the way any other treater can stop. Why can't we be encouraged too? The reason I'm putting this out there is because I don't feel that there is a whole lot of support for the individuals who have a high BMI and are thinking of treating. In fact I've seen them discouraged!
Great discussion! I'm a bit too tired to respond at any length tonight but will do so when I have more time/energy. Kathy - I've learned a lot from you. I think you have more knowledge/ability that you admit! :>) I'm glad that you, MB, C24Angel, NY, Rocker & Goof are having this discussion. It is important. And, as I said, I, for one, am learning a lot.
"Tubular?" Oh man. Haven't heard that in ages! Brings back memories of big hair, blue eye shadow, and leggings. lol!
Going to bed earlier tonight. Why do I have the feeling I'm going to dream about bacon cheeseburgers? Thanks guys.
"Tubular?" Oh man. Haven't heard that in ages! Brings back memories of big hair, blue eye shadow, and leggings. lol!
Going to bed earlier tonight. Why do I have the feeling I'm going to dream about bacon cheeseburgers? Thanks guys.
Dang Merry. All that fat talk made sense. It also made me hunger for a cheeseburger.
Kathy,
thanks for the encouragement so much, I know you will do well with your treatment because you have such a good attitude and also you are not afraid to ask the hard questions, or recieve all the answers. Actually reading all the posts I think everyone was trying to encourage you albeit in their own ways, it just takes time sometimes for folks to see that and not read too much into what others are saying,
we all know it's a tough uphill battle when so many things to change get thrown in the mix at once...but it's really no different than hearing that our ateries are clogged, or we a prediebetic, or any number of other things...so many conditions are either helped to be cured or even cured and reversed by dealing with the weight issue that we cannot just not talk about it. We do that only to our own detrement.
I can tell you it's a heartbreak to go through 2 years of chemo and relaspe because I did. If losing another 50 lbs could have helped that, well I shall never know, but I did remove 40 lbs prior to treating...couldn't do more than that in the 6 month time slot I was given between diagnosis and commencement of tx.
People do need info to be well informed. One theory I've heard as to the WHY the liver may do worse with more fat is that the virus hides in fat, and meds don't penetrate fat cells as readily as other types...just a couple more theories among many.
Angel and NY girl...well live and learn ladies. Actually that research has been around for about 30 years now. It's called free radical formation and it's cheif cause (besides the daily couple dozen xrays we get living on this planet) is from the oxidation of fat. When fat is burned it uses oxygen to be burned same as your car needs oxygen to be mixed with it's gas (a form of fat/oil) before it can burn.
This conversion to usable fuel produces a by product known as a free radical, nasty buggers known to have influence on the cells near them wherein they rupture and/or mutate healthy cells, and hence cause aberrant cell diviision, and while the healthy immune system scrubs these outlaw overgrowing cells cancerous or sick cells from our bodies each day if we overwhelm the system it can cause more cancer cells to form than the body can eliminate, especially if the liver is already compromised to boot.
Bottom line is every day your body makes tons of cancer cells, but normally the lymphatic system removes them.
I taught anatomy and nutrition at college in the 70's and this research was known even then.
So why is weight loss an issue? Because the biggest cause of free radicals in the diet, well one of them, (nitrates and other things hurt too) but the biggest dietary cause is saturated fat. Particularly aggregeous is animal fat...meat sources etc....it is solid and sticky by nature, and hard to burn and it produces the most free radicals, many more than vegetable sources of oil. THAT is why doctors have been saying for years to switch to veggie oils for many years, because of all the research.
Well, say you go veggie...out of the woods...yes and no...out of the woods until you go to lose weight...then all that animal fat on US....yes WE are animals, goes into circulation as it is getting burned....and suddenly it's like we are eating a steak every day...iy is steak tartar ala child4angel, or broiled NY girl, or merrybe Wellington, but it is steak none the less...and if you diet correctly, it is VERY high fat and low muscle ratio.....so at that point, while dieting, we produce more free radicals you see.
Now since the liver is at higher risk anyway what with fibrosis and HCv, and especially with iron overload already causing too much oxidation in many, it makes sense to lose weight OF COURSE, but it makes sense to do it more slowly and sensibly than some folks advocate in order to avoid the dreaded HCC getting the upper hand...in my opinion.
I insisted on a slow steady weight decline and regular iron checks (which this forum clued me into) while going through this process and my hepatologist had NO proplemo with my approach once I rattled off what little I remembered from my teaching days.
I suppose if one was young and still relatively healthy and in stage 1 or 2 than a quicker weight loss might be appropo...but I was stage 3-4 and with high iron I would never have considered that approach worth the risk. I was able to lower my iron 250 pts. lose half the weight I wanted to, so it is a reasonable approach. After all, the "cure" is supposed to do more good than harm.
mb
thanks for the encouragement so much, I know you will do well with your treatment because you have such a good attitude and also you are not afraid to ask the hard questions, or recieve all the answers. Actually reading all the posts I think everyone was trying to encourage you albeit in their own ways, it just takes time sometimes for folks to see that and not read too much into what others are saying,
we all know it's a tough uphill battle when so many things to change get thrown in the mix at once...but it's really no different than hearing that our ateries are clogged, or we a prediebetic, or any number of other things...so many conditions are either helped to be cured or even cured and reversed by dealing with the weight issue that we cannot just not talk about it. We do that only to our own detrement.
I can tell you it's a heartbreak to go through 2 years of chemo and relaspe because I did. If losing another 50 lbs could have helped that, well I shall never know, but I did remove 40 lbs prior to treating...couldn't do more than that in the 6 month time slot I was given between diagnosis and commencement of tx.
People do need info to be well informed. One theory I've heard as to the WHY the liver may do worse with more fat is that the virus hides in fat, and meds don't penetrate fat cells as readily as other types...just a couple more theories among many.
Angel and NY girl...well live and learn ladies. Actually that research has been around for about 30 years now. It's called free radical formation and it's cheif cause (besides the daily couple dozen xrays we get living on this planet) is from the oxidation of fat. When fat is burned it uses oxygen to be burned same as your car needs oxygen to be mixed with it's gas (a form of fat/oil) before it can burn.
This conversion to usable fuel produces a by product known as a free radical, nasty buggers known to have influence on the cells near them wherein they rupture and/or mutate healthy cells, and hence cause aberrant cell diviision, and while the healthy immune system scrubs these outlaw overgrowing cells cancerous or sick cells from our bodies each day if we overwhelm the system it can cause more cancer cells to form than the body can eliminate, especially if the liver is already compromised to boot.
Bottom line is every day your body makes tons of cancer cells, but normally the lymphatic system removes them.
I taught anatomy and nutrition at college in the 70's and this research was known even then.
So why is weight loss an issue? Because the biggest cause of free radicals in the diet, well one of them, (nitrates and other things hurt too) but the biggest dietary cause is saturated fat. Particularly aggregeous is animal fat...meat sources etc....it is solid and sticky by nature, and hard to burn and it produces the most free radicals, many more than vegetable sources of oil. THAT is why doctors have been saying for years to switch to veggie oils for many years, because of all the research.
Well, say you go veggie...out of the woods...yes and no...out of the woods until you go to lose weight...then all that animal fat on US....yes WE are animals, goes into circulation as it is getting burned....and suddenly it's like we are eating a steak every day...iy is steak tartar ala child4angel, or broiled NY girl, or merrybe Wellington, but it is steak none the less...and if you diet correctly, it is VERY high fat and low muscle ratio.....so at that point, while dieting, we produce more free radicals you see.
Now since the liver is at higher risk anyway what with fibrosis and HCv, and especially with iron overload already causing too much oxidation in many, it makes sense to lose weight OF COURSE, but it makes sense to do it more slowly and sensibly than some folks advocate in order to avoid the dreaded HCC getting the upper hand...in my opinion.
I insisted on a slow steady weight decline and regular iron checks (which this forum clued me into) while going through this process and my hepatologist had NO proplemo with my approach once I rattled off what little I remembered from my teaching days.
I suppose if one was young and still relatively healthy and in stage 1 or 2 than a quicker weight loss might be appropo...but I was stage 3-4 and with high iron I would never have considered that approach worth the risk. I was able to lower my iron 250 pts. lose half the weight I wanted to, so it is a reasonable approach. After all, the "cure" is supposed to do more good than harm.
mb
Gotta admit I never heard losing weight too fast could do anything about causing HCC either. It doesn't seem to make sense to me much - how much weight would you have to lose that fast? I'd be afraid to discourage anybody from doing their best to lose weight if they needed to. Maybe I just never heard that before?
The important thing in losing weight and trying to remove fat from the liver is not to try to do it too quickly. Not only does this increase the risk of hepatic cancer,
I've never heard this before, losing weight too fast can
increase hepatic cancer? doubt it, hepatic cancer can cause
a person to lose weight.
Two types of cancer affect the liver:
Primary cancer first begins in the liver and may spread to other organs. The most common primary cancer is hepatocellular carcinoma.
Metastasized cancer of the liver comes originally from another part of the body. Cancer cells can easily travel from another affected organ to the liver because of the role the liver plays in filtering the blood. The most common cancers that spread to the liver are from the colon, pancreas, stomach, lung, and breast.
The average person diagnosed with liver cancer is over 60 years old. In Canada, about 1,800 people are diagnosed every year with liver cancer, and well over half of them are men.
Causes of Liver Cancer
The causes of liver cancer still aren't known, but some risk factors have been identified. They include:
chronic hepatitis B and C infection
cirrhosis of the liver
diabetes mellitus
exposure to toxins, such as certain types of fungi (aflatoxin), vinyl chloride, anabolic steroids, and arsenic
smoking
I've never heard this before, losing weight too fast can
increase hepatic cancer? doubt it, hepatic cancer can cause
a person to lose weight.
Two types of cancer affect the liver:
Primary cancer first begins in the liver and may spread to other organs. The most common primary cancer is hepatocellular carcinoma.
Metastasized cancer of the liver comes originally from another part of the body. Cancer cells can easily travel from another affected organ to the liver because of the role the liver plays in filtering the blood. The most common cancers that spread to the liver are from the colon, pancreas, stomach, lung, and breast.
The average person diagnosed with liver cancer is over 60 years old. In Canada, about 1,800 people are diagnosed every year with liver cancer, and well over half of them are men.
Causes of Liver Cancer
The causes of liver cancer still aren't known, but some risk factors have been identified. They include:
chronic hepatitis B and C infection
cirrhosis of the liver
diabetes mellitus
exposure to toxins, such as certain types of fungi (aflatoxin), vinyl chloride, anabolic steroids, and arsenic
smoking
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