Aa
Overweight (high BMI) and Treating...
I'm 1 month post treatment with SOC.
What is so wrong about people with a high BMI being encouraged to try treatment? If it doesn't work by 4 or 12 weeks they can just stop the way any other treater can stop. Why can't we be encouraged too? The reason I'm putting this out there is because I don't feel that there is a whole lot of support for the individuals who have a high BMI and are thinking of treating. In fact I've seen them discouraged!
What is so wrong about people with a high BMI being encouraged to try treatment? If it doesn't work by 4 or 12 weeks they can just stop the way any other treater can stop. Why can't we be encouraged too? The reason I'm putting this out there is because I don't feel that there is a whole lot of support for the individuals who have a high BMI and are thinking of treating. In fact I've seen them discouraged!
What a surprise to see this thread brought up again! After over a year of trying to get someone on this forum to actually say what you've said:
"Bottom line is, sure a large person should treat, although we are so close to the PI's coming on line I'd advise any stage 1 or 2 person to wait for them)
sure large people got large by different modalities.
the main issue is should she treat, and should she do anything else." When I tried to say something similar to this I felt I was insulted, denigrated and dismissed.
I'm sorry MerryB that you have tried so long and hard to get your points across on this forum. You have wonderful information to impart and, as I've experienced, certain individuals try their best to block it.
I certainly don't have the knowledge and ability to impart the information both of you have so I will thank you both for sharing it.
If I do attain SVR in a couple of months I will jump for joy. If I don't I'll wait until the new and improved drugs are available and do it all over again.
Thank you again.
Kathy
"Bottom line is, sure a large person should treat, although we are so close to the PI's coming on line I'd advise any stage 1 or 2 person to wait for them)
sure large people got large by different modalities.
the main issue is should she treat, and should she do anything else." When I tried to say something similar to this I felt I was insulted, denigrated and dismissed.
I'm sorry MerryB that you have tried so long and hard to get your points across on this forum. You have wonderful information to impart and, as I've experienced, certain individuals try their best to block it.
I certainly don't have the knowledge and ability to impart the information both of you have so I will thank you both for sharing it.
If I do attain SVR in a couple of months I will jump for joy. If I don't I'll wait until the new and improved drugs are available and do it all over again.
Thank you again.
Kathy
you are correct, although not all overweight people have fatty liver, it depends on their diet, their consumption of fats and what types, alcohol consumption as well as other health issues such as diabetes.
The liver stores and releases fat every day, all day, and so some fat in the liver is normal. The first line of defense needs to be to replace saturated and hydrogenated fats with good healthy fats in the diet. These do less damage and in some ways reverse damage already done, and are burned easier, and don't clog arteries.
The important thing in losing weight and trying to remove fat from the liver is not to try to do it too quickly. Not only does this increase the risk of hepatic cancer, but it also can do a number on your gall bladder, which can happen anyway in weight loss but is more likely in those going on crash diets. A good rule of thumb is to keep weight loss to no more than 2 lbs per week. The gall bladder must release its bile into the system in order not to form stones etc. and it only releases in the presense of fats. Ergo a no fat diet in NOT good for us.
mb
The liver stores and releases fat every day, all day, and so some fat in the liver is normal. The first line of defense needs to be to replace saturated and hydrogenated fats with good healthy fats in the diet. These do less damage and in some ways reverse damage already done, and are burned easier, and don't clog arteries.
The important thing in losing weight and trying to remove fat from the liver is not to try to do it too quickly. Not only does this increase the risk of hepatic cancer, but it also can do a number on your gall bladder, which can happen anyway in weight loss but is more likely in those going on crash diets. A good rule of thumb is to keep weight loss to no more than 2 lbs per week. The gall bladder must release its bile into the system in order not to form stones etc. and it only releases in the presense of fats. Ergo a no fat diet in NOT good for us.
mb
If you are obese,odds are your liver will be "fatty" also,not good for TX.Data is out there proving this in studies.The Tx drugs do a better job at eliminating the virus with the liver not fatty.
Happy NY back!! ditto and then some!
you are right on the money. perfect.
now the question of treating or not should NOT revolve around size, obviously.
it's just that size does effect outcome. A known item.
what I don't get is why they told me THAT, but not how to fix that, not one suggestion.
It was a total uphill battle to get my hormones checked, resolve the IR issues etc etc.
My doc thought I was A. nuts, or B. obbsessive. C. wrong.
truth was A. I had endocrine dysfuction (several glands shut down, as HCV can cause this it baffles me why they don't check.)
B. I diagnoses 4 dieases before the specialist did, and was right, they were wrong.
C. even the much disputed IR connection is proven. Dr. Flochart and others have proven insulin cancels out interferon, and so both disease progression AND outcome during treatment are effected by high HOMA scores.
Bottom line is, sure a large person should treat, although we are so close to the PI's coming on line I'd advise any stage 1 or 2 person to wait for them)
sure large people got large by different modalities.
the main issue is should she treat, and should she do anything else.
You know what, I ran this by both my liver docs...why don't you guys have an endocrinologist on board for each HCV patient, knowing what we now know...
I got blank stares off into the distance.
think about it....every aides patient has various other apecialists on board...guys to watch their skin, their hearts, etc etc etc...
you'd think they'd at least consider endos in light of all the recent studies connecting this disease not just to liver failure but to endocrine failure as well!!
One more way people get large from this disease is that when the fatique is operative activity takes a nose dive, and that leads to weight gain.
Another aspect is that depression is a result of these systems being sluggish, and that leads to more weight.
the best way to overcome all this is to get the treatments needed and we can't get those treatments until we stop thinking we are healthy, and admit that maybe some things are not right!!
I know, I was a whirling dirvish for years, and kept telling myself I was basically healthy in spite of many indicators quite the opposite. When I finally asked for testing my doctor argued NONE of what I suggested could be possible, and yet EVERY test proves I had 60, 50, and in one case only 20% of normal gland function.
Because HCV takes the system down so slowly many folks will just attribute changes in weight, activity level etc. to age and so forth.
Yet as God is my witness HCV is taking out endocrine functions, including the pancreas which is part of the endocrine system and all this is part of why weight gain is going on.
I've been saying this the whole 2 years I've been on this forum.
By the way, NIH estimates for worldwide HCV cases within 10 years now approaches
1 Billion people. How's that for an epidemic.
BTW, what do you think about the weight loss issue. I mean, if one is stage 3-4 and doesn't have NASH, shouldn't one weigh the pro's and cons, i.e. oxidative stress vs. lower weight? I've been paring down very slowly due to my concern about this but have never seen a real discussion about it. It makes sense to lose, but we have to be aware of HCC and not sc.rew the pooch in the process by building up too many free radicals common in weight loss right? That's why continuing with healthy fresh oils is so important.
mb
you are right on the money. perfect.
now the question of treating or not should NOT revolve around size, obviously.
it's just that size does effect outcome. A known item.
what I don't get is why they told me THAT, but not how to fix that, not one suggestion.
It was a total uphill battle to get my hormones checked, resolve the IR issues etc etc.
My doc thought I was A. nuts, or B. obbsessive. C. wrong.
truth was A. I had endocrine dysfuction (several glands shut down, as HCV can cause this it baffles me why they don't check.)
B. I diagnoses 4 dieases before the specialist did, and was right, they were wrong.
C. even the much disputed IR connection is proven. Dr. Flochart and others have proven insulin cancels out interferon, and so both disease progression AND outcome during treatment are effected by high HOMA scores.
Bottom line is, sure a large person should treat, although we are so close to the PI's coming on line I'd advise any stage 1 or 2 person to wait for them)
sure large people got large by different modalities.
the main issue is should she treat, and should she do anything else.
You know what, I ran this by both my liver docs...why don't you guys have an endocrinologist on board for each HCV patient, knowing what we now know...
I got blank stares off into the distance.
think about it....every aides patient has various other apecialists on board...guys to watch their skin, their hearts, etc etc etc...
you'd think they'd at least consider endos in light of all the recent studies connecting this disease not just to liver failure but to endocrine failure as well!!
One more way people get large from this disease is that when the fatique is operative activity takes a nose dive, and that leads to weight gain.
Another aspect is that depression is a result of these systems being sluggish, and that leads to more weight.
the best way to overcome all this is to get the treatments needed and we can't get those treatments until we stop thinking we are healthy, and admit that maybe some things are not right!!
I know, I was a whirling dirvish for years, and kept telling myself I was basically healthy in spite of many indicators quite the opposite. When I finally asked for testing my doctor argued NONE of what I suggested could be possible, and yet EVERY test proves I had 60, 50, and in one case only 20% of normal gland function.
Because HCV takes the system down so slowly many folks will just attribute changes in weight, activity level etc. to age and so forth.
Yet as God is my witness HCV is taking out endocrine functions, including the pancreas which is part of the endocrine system and all this is part of why weight gain is going on.
I've been saying this the whole 2 years I've been on this forum.
By the way, NIH estimates for worldwide HCV cases within 10 years now approaches
1 Billion people. How's that for an epidemic.
BTW, what do you think about the weight loss issue. I mean, if one is stage 3-4 and doesn't have NASH, shouldn't one weigh the pro's and cons, i.e. oxidative stress vs. lower weight? I've been paring down very slowly due to my concern about this but have never seen a real discussion about it. It makes sense to lose, but we have to be aware of HCC and not sc.rew the pooch in the process by building up too many free radicals common in weight loss right? That's why continuing with healthy fresh oils is so important.
mb
I'm rewording the last point for clarification:
Fact: People with high BMI and/or HCV should also monitor nutrition (meaning vitamin, mineral, and fluid intake) and sleep. Dysfunction in these areas also play a large role in the immune response/obesity connection.
(I'm a case example of how sleep-deprivation can affect cognitive health.)
Good night!
Fact: People with high BMI and/or HCV should also monitor nutrition (meaning vitamin, mineral, and fluid intake) and sleep. Dysfunction in these areas also play a large role in the immune response/obesity connection.
(I'm a case example of how sleep-deprivation can affect cognitive health.)
Good night!
Okay, first - Happy New Year.
Yes, the thread did become emotional. Emotions are an important part of this process. The initial question of this thread involved emotionally laden content. Sometimes we have to be sensitive to, acknowledge, and respond to the emotions - sit with them for just a bit - rather than ignore them or try to rationalize them away. The thread was moving in other directions prior to that process occurring. The result = emotional snowball. That being said, let's now move on the some rational facts, as you suggest:
Fact: We agree that high BMI is typically associated with higher health risks.
Fact: The majority of people in the U.S. are overweight (Centers for Disease Control and the Office of the Surgeon General).
Fact: Body weight is the result of a combination of genetic, metabolic, behavioral, environmental, cultural, and socioeconomic influences (Office of the Surgeon General).
Fact: According to the National Institute of Health, many people think that individuals who are considered obese are gluttonous, lazy, or both. This is not true. As a result, people who are considered obese often face prejudice or discrimination. Feelings of rejection, shame, or depression may occur. Making blanket over-simplified statements about losing weight (when a weight problem is often a very complex problem) are not only not helpful, but can also contribute to the problem. Therefore, a little sensitivity and understanding from people, especially those who are not obese, could go a long way.
Fact: People with high BMI and/or HCV should have their hormone levels checked. Endocrine gland dysfunction may play a larger role in obesity and/or HCV tx outcomes than previously thought.
Fact: People with high BMI and/or HCV should also monitor diet and sleep. Dysfunction in these areas also play a large role in the immune response/obesity connection.
How's that, MerryBe?
Yes, the thread did become emotional. Emotions are an important part of this process. The initial question of this thread involved emotionally laden content. Sometimes we have to be sensitive to, acknowledge, and respond to the emotions - sit with them for just a bit - rather than ignore them or try to rationalize them away. The thread was moving in other directions prior to that process occurring. The result = emotional snowball. That being said, let's now move on the some rational facts, as you suggest:
Fact: We agree that high BMI is typically associated with higher health risks.
Fact: The majority of people in the U.S. are overweight (Centers for Disease Control and the Office of the Surgeon General).
Fact: Body weight is the result of a combination of genetic, metabolic, behavioral, environmental, cultural, and socioeconomic influences (Office of the Surgeon General).
Fact: According to the National Institute of Health, many people think that individuals who are considered obese are gluttonous, lazy, or both. This is not true. As a result, people who are considered obese often face prejudice or discrimination. Feelings of rejection, shame, or depression may occur. Making blanket over-simplified statements about losing weight (when a weight problem is often a very complex problem) are not only not helpful, but can also contribute to the problem. Therefore, a little sensitivity and understanding from people, especially those who are not obese, could go a long way.
Fact: People with high BMI and/or HCV should have their hormone levels checked. Endocrine gland dysfunction may play a larger role in obesity and/or HCV tx outcomes than previously thought.
Fact: People with high BMI and/or HCV should also monitor diet and sleep. Dysfunction in these areas also play a large role in the immune response/obesity connection.
How's that, MerryBe?
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