Squashing Hepatitis C with no interferon-ribavarin

[hepcsurvivor]

Hi,

I am a 32 year Hep C survivor. I found and tried a new combo of drugs and supplements that reduced my count from over 500K to 11K in a very short time.

I posted the whole nine yards on Blogger ******* under this lnk    http://******************.********.com/

Not sure if links are allowed.

And no, I am not selling anything. I just want to try and help anyone who is looking for an alternative. Everything I am taking you can easily obtain yourself.

I hope this helps some of you.

[merryBe]

as first glance I'd agree, medical data, yada yada, however then I recall things like less than .01% of the general populace with pituitary deficiancy, and 40% of the hcv populace..

reminds me of why even medical knowledge must be taken with grains of salt...so much specialization leads to short-sightedness. Reminds me sometimes of the blind men walking around the elephant.
it also reminds me that the scientific bosses, our doctors, don't always know everything.

Remember the joke about the brain and the ashhole?  The bosy BODY started having a debate within it's members one day, the blood said it should be boss because it nourished and brought air to all, the heart said I should be boss, because without him the blood goes no where...the legs said they should be boss because without them the body went nowhere, everyone had its turn, the brain of course had its say, and succintly and scientifically proved why it needed to be boss as it had all the knowledge and gave all the commands..on and on it went....finally....the ashhole said it had something to say and they all laughed and told it to shut up, who even cares what he thinks or does.  So he did, he shut up good and tight...
the next thing you know, the blood was polluted the heart started skipping beats, the legs got wobbly the brain made no sense at all...the mouth was all gibberish without any legs to stand on....which only goes to prove you don't have to be the brains to be the boss, just an ashhole!!

mb

[Trinity4]

Just a few - many more out there

http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/10/2409.pdf

http://www.hepcprimer.com/biopsy/inf-3.html

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/chronichepc/

[Trinity4]

Not everyone experiences gland failure, cirrhosis, enlarged spleens, digestive problems, fatigue, brain damage, brain fog and so on and so forth.  I had no extra-hepatic manifestations except for PCT.  Had I not developed that I would have never known I had HCV.  Healthy as a horse with HCV well over 40 years.  However, my liver didn't fair so well and I didn't help it by adding alcohol.

HIV and HCV are worlds apart as far viral load goes.  It's been shown that those who are coinfected have a tendency for faster fibrosis progression.  How many times have we seen people post they've had HCV for 40 years with a long established viral load in the millions but biopsy showed very little fibrosis?  We've also seen people post they've had HCV for 40 years with a long established low viral load but biopsy showed extensive liver damage.

To date, I have to believe that the experts know what they are talking about when it comes to the correlation between viral load and liver damage.  We can speculate all day long but the bottom line is until new guidelines are set regarding low viral load and less liver damage I must side with the medical data currently available.

Trinity

[merryBe]

gsgirl, go girl, that's brevity we all can use!! too bad it's not 29, but I still fee that way don't you??  (until I look in the mirror ; )  ).

all....ok, come let us reason together someone once said.

medicine knows a lot more about this virus than it did 17 years ago when they first identified it.

we know that certain virus's are more virulant in smaller numbers, they kill in days.
we know hcv isn't that way, but we also know that the immune system has to stay in high gear for years, the more the virons, the more the macrophages, interlukins etc must be made. Why do you think the spleen gets enlarged over time?

Here's whats operative, I'll use numbers mentioned on this thread,
lets say a person has a VL of 2 mil. that's roughley 300,000 virons per drop of blood; vs. say a person with 15k pr ml.  or roughly 3,000 per drop of blood.

Now each viron does a variety of things, it changes the way fats and proteins are metabolized, it has a cascading effect therfore on all glandular functions, it basically farms your cells, yes, it breeds in the liver, it tried to hop inside every lipid particle as they mature (become harder) and hitch a ride in the bloodstream....do whatever damage they do there and then return to the liver to breed again.
Think of them as fish, swimming in the oceans and them going upstream to spawn again.

Now, I don't understand all they do, medicine has made strides but there are literally dozens and dozens of chemical processes that these virons are known to disrupt or utilize to their advantage in order to survive.  They remind me a little of salmon, knowing how to return to the same spawning ground (the liver), and a little of beavers, who know when an where to damn a stream the better to survive.

My point however, is that if every viron does a certain amount of damage, then having 3,000 virons per drop of blood would surely give one a better chance than having 300,000 per drop.  It only stands to reason.

It's hard to even get my mind around what that VL means, I mean, what happens to the blood cells, the red, the white, the platelets...how can they survive as well crowded in with 350,000 enemies in a single drop of blood?
I'm not saying it's the only factor, we know the inflammation is key and doesn't seem related to VL...SEEM being the key word.  

However, the possiblity exists that concurrently there is more destruction of blood cells, more compensation that both the liver and the immune system, and hence the glands as well as all other organs must do to keep up with higher VL.
It remains to be seen why the spleen enlarges, why the pituitary stops secreting growth hormone, why the other glands begin to fail, why the adipose tissue is redistrubuted...all these things could be protective, or they could be that the strain is wearing everything out.
Everything.

I just don't think it's as cut and dry as saying VL has nothing to do with anything.

As I said, HIV is a good example of the opposite being true. There you see that lowering the viral load had extended the average life span from 5 years to 30 years beyond diagnosis. The antiviral therapies are responsible for that gain.
Meaning that HIV, also a retrovirus and the closest one to hcv in terms of attributes, is survivable when VL is kept low.

Could we talk??  Can we at least see this as a possibility??

I'm not saying this to defend the poster of this thread, I'm saying it, because to me it makes sense.

mb

[GSDgirl]

hey!!!!!  I might nor be average, far from it BUT I am 49 not 60ish.  Just had to get that in there.

Yea, I know that there are a lot younger than me but I am not old.

[Bill1954]

There may be some hepatic protection involved with large reductions in viral load; the HALT-C study was large and considered very comprehensive and provided excellent statistical weight. From hivandhepatitis.com:

http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2008icr/easl/docs/042908_d.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Conclusion

Based on these findings, the HALT-C investigators concluded that, "A significant decline in clinical outcomes was observed in patients with chronic HCV and advanced fibrosis or cirrhosis who achieved a profound decline in HCV RNA (> 4 log and/or undetectable with subsequent breakthrough or relapse) with full-dose [pegylated interferon] and ribavirin whether or not they remained on maintenance therapy."

"Whether additional clinical benefit can be derived when profound HCV RNA suppression is maintained with [pegylated interferon] remains unproven," they added.””
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Relevance:

The original poster stated a reduction in viral load from 500,000 to 11,000; this translates as a log1.65 difference. To fit the criteria discussed in the HALT-C trial further viral suppression to 50 IU/ML would be required.

-Bill