HSV2 and Penis to Penis touching

[roger1327]

About 5 weeks ago I had an encounter with a transexual where we masterbated each other, and then she put our penises together touching them together and stroked both as one at the same time for about 5-10 seconds.

I'm wondering if this contact would be enough to transmit HSV2?  Is this considered low risk?  I've heard Dr. Hook and Handsfield both say that it's difficult to transmit HSV2 without lots of friction, heat, moisture, and usually transmits best with unprotected penetration of some type.

I have no idea if she was HSV2+ and/or if she had sores on her penis (which I know sores don't always matter).  I had IgM and IgG tests performed at 18 days and 32 days post exposure, all 4 were negative.  I know this is early for testing, but wondering if this is a good sign?  I have not seen any lesions or sores on my penis.

I have very high anxiety over this and have not been intimate with my wife out of fear of infecting her.  Should I be concerned and do I need to wait to continue testing?  Any feedback here would be great, thank you.

[RainyDay2]

I don’t meant to be the bearer of bad news, but it is very possible that you now have some form of HSV.  PLEASE please please do not believe when people tell you that herpes is difficult to transfer in a single encounter.  It is not difficult at all.  I was exposed to HSV2 in a single encounter for less than 5 seconds with barely any friction whatsoever.  Condom ripped almost instantly after penetrating a woman with HSV2.  I barely moved my penis before I took it out.  All it took was a moment of contact with vagina and/or the fluids and I now have the virus.  I thought that because I caught it in time and ran to the bathroom to clean it off it would save me.  I was wrong. My penis tip was burning within 2 days, and has continued burning for months on end.  My only gential bump has been one that seemed to be an ingrown hair in my pubic area a few days after I was exposed.  The scar is still there.  Take that as you will, but I am living proof that HSV is far more contagious than what statistics may try to tell you.  Do not write herpes off because you dont have typical symptoms.  Do you have any burning in your legs, feet or hands?  

[CurfewX]

Have you been clinically diagnosed with HSV2?

[roger1327]

No, I have not been clinically diagnosed.  I'm testing tomorrow at my 8 week mark, IgG HSV2.  I've had several negative IgM and IgG tests up until 32 days post exposure and decided to wait until 8 week mark to test again.

We have not been able to locate any sores to swab.  But I do think I have way too many symptoms for it not to be HSV2.  As I write this (8 weeks after exposure), I feel tender and achy lymph nodes in my neck, groin and underarms...they have a soreness and achyness to them.  I'm also experiencing aching muscles and joint pain throughout my body, as well as an overall feeling of being unwell and weakness.  Just can't seem to shake it.  Very mad at myself for putting myself in this predicament, but not much I can do now but hope my tests come back negative.  Just sucks.

[TooHip1973]

I think CurfewX was asking RainyDay2 about his diagnosis.
I saw your post to Terri’s board. I am sure she will get to your question soon but refrain from adding to your post. She answers in order of oldest posts first. The more people add things in, it drops your question further down her cue because it looks like a new question.

[roger1327]

Got it, thanks, I thought CurfewX was asking me, sorry about that.

Hoping Terri gets to it soon, as it’s been a couple of days...and thanks again for your suggestion to post there.

Are you still confident my symptoms could be something else?  Hard to believe I would still be having these symptoms almost 8 weeks after the event?

[roger1327]

I'm going to see my doctor tomorrow to run another IgG test, which will be 8 weeks since potential exposure.  

Unfortunately, I'm experiencing tender lymph nodes in my groin and some discomfort urinating, but just overall goin area discomfort.  I can feel the achy nodes when I'm walking.  They don't visually look enlarged, but they do ache.   I'm seeing a surgeon on Thursday to discuss 2 hernias I have had for many years...maybe that's causing the groin issues, not sure?

I can also feel the soreness in my neck (it now cracks all the time) and I'm also feeling weak and not well, along with overall body aches and joint pain.  The pain seems to shoot around the body all day.  This has been happening for a few months now, with some symptoms coming and going.  Had a sore throat at one point, but not now.  I just haven't been able to shake these symptoms.  No real fever, but occasionally it jumped up 1 degree or so above my normal 97.6 baseline temp.

I haven't seen any lesions or blisters, but maybe I've just missed them along the way throughout this crazy experience.  I guess there isn't anything else to do or discuss, other than the IgG test tomorrow.  Keeping my fingers crossed that I'll stay negative, but who knows.  

I appreciate everyone's feedback, especially TooHip1973 for great insights along the way.  I'm hoping your opinion on this is correct, but my symptoms and research are now leading me to believe that I was exposed to HSV2 during this event.  It will be tough pill to swallow, but I guess I will live and learn.  But maybe there is a slim chance that I dodged a bullet and these symptoms are something else.  I have had other skin issues at the same time, so maybe the symptoms are related to the skin issues, I'm not sure.  

I will keep the faith and move forward with my test tomorrow praying for a negative result.  Please wish me luck.  If it's negative, I will continue to test until the 12 week mark.  Thanks again.  Feel free to offer any additional insight regarding my situation if you are interested.

[roger1327]

Last question...could HSV2 cause a sore neck?  It feels sore on both sides and on the back.  It also cracks quite often when I move it...it never used to do that.

[roger1327]

UPDATE:  My IgG test at 8 weeks was negative.

[roger1327]

IgG HSV2 that is.  My 4th Generation HIV test at 8 weeks was negative as well.

[roger1327]

TooHip1973, I just wanted to let you know that Terri responded and doesn't think my symptoms are related to HSV, and thinks the exposure was low risk.  She feels my 8 week test should be accurate, given the situation.  

In her opinion, I could re-test at 12 weeks, but she doesn't feel it's necessary.  I'm still concerned and still feeling symptoms, so I plan on testing at 10 or 12 weeks and hopefully be done with this.  Thanks again for your help.

[TooHip1973]

I would never say anything is impossible but I highly doubt this is related. Continuous issues for months does not point to HSV.
Maybe you would benefit from posting on Terri Warrens board at Westover Heights. She is considered one of the top authorities on HSV.
And maybe the mods of this board (I am not one) can chime in and offer advice. I have nothing further to offer but I really wish the best for you!

[roger1327]

Thank you, I will post on Terri’s board and open to what the mods on your site may have to offer.  Thank again.

[TooHip1973]

I’m so glad. She’ll be able to advise you. She’s a smart woman and knows her stuff. I have a feeling she’ll agree with all that’s been said here.

[TooHip1973]

I’m so glad. She’ll be able to advise you. She’s a smart woman and knows her stuff. I have a feeling she’ll agree with all that’s been said here.

[TooHip1973]

A 4th generation HiV test is conclusive at 6 weeks. You don’t need to wait for that. Urination issues could stem from  prostatis. The all over rash and vague and doesn’t seem to point to anything hsv related. Unless this was vigorously rubbing the penises together, I don’t think you need to be focusing so hard on hsv.
Your anxiety is getting to you why? Because of guilt. It’s amazing what guilt will do to us. I don’t know if this activity is something you engage in with frequency and it doesn’t matter if it’s with another man or another woman. But what i do think you need to do is talk with a trained professional about it so you don’t fall into a cycle that could, one day, present real risk. It’s about honesty with your partner and with yourself. You’re going to be okay.

[roger1327]

Thanks, appreciate the feedback.  I also found a single spot on the bottom of my scrotum, it's white and dull (not shiny) and is painful to the touch.  Could this be HSV2?  I sent a photo to my doctor and he didn't think it was herpetic, but couldn't tell me what it is.  Can you get HSV2 on the scrotum?  Can it be a single lesion?

[roger1327]

Also, she did rub them together, but not vigorously and not for long.  They were basically together and then she rubbed her hand up and down around both of them, her thumb did rub both tips together at one point, going back and forth.  She did give me a handjob after rubbing them together, but I did not ejaculate, neither did she.

[roger1327]

Lastly, I had negative HIV Duo test at 32 days and a negative DNA PCR test at 18 days, according to Dr. Handsfield the combination of those tests at those time frames should be conclusive, do you agree?

[TooHip1973]

The HIV PCR is the best there is. Don’t worry about hiv, especially from this no risk exposure.
An initial hsv outbreak would happen at the site of entry. Your testicles have thick skin, so I highly doubt what you have there is in any way related to this event. If it giving you pain, an urgent care clinic could see you immediately in person to look at it:

[roger1327]

Thanks, your feedback is very helpful with keeping my anxiety under control.

[roger1327]

TooHip1973, thanks for all of your help along the way with my situation, it’s really helping me keep positive through this testing period, I deeply thank you..

I do not practice this type of behavior on a regular basis and will definitley never do this again; just hoping I get a second chance and have not contracted anything with this episode.  I can’t believe I was so careless and not thinking straight, so unacceptable on my part.

I still have quite a few symptoms of both HSV2 and HIV, it’s crazy.  The last few days I’ve had redness with red bumps and almost looks like a blister inside me nose, as well as discomfort, is it possible that that is the site of my infection?  The skin on the outside of the nose is red and irritated as well.  This just started a few days ago, 7 weeks after exposure?  I’ve had the other symptoms for well over a month, including blurry vision, rash on hands and feet, peeling skin, sore skin, muscle aches, difficulty urinaring, some burning sensations, etc.  

The constant muscle aches and joint pain really has me worried, as well as nausea and lack of appetite.  I’ve lost so much weight throughout this situation.

Please let me know your thoughts on the irritation inside my nose, it’s very concerning, given all my other symptoms. Thank you in advance.

[roger1327]

I forgot to mention that my skin feels “sore” when I sit down.  It looks red and irritated after sitting for a while and it hurts and it feels hot to the touch.  Is this a common symptom of HSV2?  

I apologize for all the additional posts, just trying to keep positive as I work through my testing.  I’m dreading my next round of tests with all these symptoms.  

Do you still think negative DNA PCR at 18 days and 4th gen at 32 days is conclusive for no HIV?

[TooHip1973]

The spot in your nose could be anything. All over rashes are not hsv related. Nothing you have mentioned is a common symptom of hsv. Symptoms lasting over a month do not point to hsv. You hiv testing is conclusive.

[roger1327]

Thanks again for your quick response, so very helpful, as this is all new and frightening territory for me, I’m still in shock this is even happening.  

so these symptoms cannot be HiV due to the negative test results, correct?  

I’m still going to re-test HIV 4th gen this week at 7.5/8 weeks, as well as HSV2 IgG.

My discomfort urinating, achy groin area, achy neck, slight sore throat, irritation in and around nose, the shooting pain/aches in my legs, buttocks, hips, arms, knees, joints, etc, as well as areas of my skin (bottom after sitting) feeling sore and hot, as well as thighs feeling like the muscles are burning at times, nausea and no appetite just seem so much like HSV2 symptoms, I find it hard to believe HSV2 isn’t what I’m experiencing, but hopefully I’m wrong.  Do you really think all those symptoms could be something else?  I’ve never felt like this before, so it’s all so strange, I don’t know what to think, so panicked and confused.

Any additional feedback would be great.  Sorry for the long winded message.

[roger1327]

Forgot to mention the tip of penis is still sore and slight burning feeling when I urinate, I just can’t beleive it.

[TooHip1973]

I feel like there is nothing further I can say that will help you, instead it just feeds your anxiety. Get your final HIV test, though I don’t think it’s necessary, at 8 weeks.
I think it would be best if you go to a doctor with all these symptoms. They do not seem related to the event, especially those that are all over your body.

[roger1327]

I understand and thank you for your persistence with responding to me, I’m sure it’s frustrating for you, as it’s driving me crazy.

Could it be possible it’s a combination of both HIV and HSV2?  I guess not given the negative HIV tests?  Seems to be so  much overlap in the symptoms.

I will go to the doctor next week, as he’s been providing me with the necessary blood work for the tests.

I also had 3 negative IgM tests, which I knew are not the best, but my doctor said it’s soentjkng and good to see they were negative.

[TooHip1973]

There is no combination of HIV and HSV. You need to wipe HIV from your mind and I think HSV2 as well. It’s not frustration but I think your encounter was essentially no risk. I feel as if you engaged in something that you have guilt over. Whether it’s because it was a transsexual or because you’re in a relationship, I don’t know. But I think you’re so hyper aware of what everything that’s going on because you feel guilty. Guilt is doing nothing for you right now. It’s making you obsess about the possibilities, not the realities. Talk to your doctor and test if you feel the need. I don’t think you need any more STD testing. I’m not a doctor though, all I can do is tell you what I do know. And moving forward, use caution engaging in behaviors that you feel guilty about. How people explore their sexuality is completely up to them. No judgment there. But if doing something that is going to make you feel shame or guilt moving forward, you will just continue this cycle on and on. Take care of yourself mentally. And relax.

[roger1327]

Thanks again.  I will talk to my doctor this week and see what he has to say about the symptoms.  I was traveling last week and just got home today.  Used a flashlight to look at the area in my nose and realized the nasal membrane (behind the front irritated sores) in both nostrils is bright red and irritated.  I've read that this can be due to an infection or a virus.  That gets me started on HIV and HSV2 again.  I don't ever remember seeing it bright red like that.  I will  need to have the doctor look at that as well.  I have no congestion, it's just bright red inside, so strange.  I also have  rash forming on the side and bottom of the nostril, outside of the nose.

Again, I appreciate your kindness and support throughout this process.  The general consensus is that my HIV tests were conclusive (I've had others confirm this as well as your confirmation), but I will continue to test for HSV2 up until 12 weeks, as I need to make sure that HSV2 is not causing all of this.  

If this was all due to one virus, it must be a pretty nasty virus (that's why I kept going back to HIV and my immune system not being able to fight off all these issues...yellow fungal toenails, rashes and peeling skin, infected nose, easily winded, nauseated, sores in mouth, losing weight, lymph node soreness, etc.).

I continue to have pain shooting through legs and arms, mild sore throat, etc, etc., just won't go away.  I keep hoping when I wake up every morning, I won't feel these symptoms, but they've been there day after day.

I've been feeling so lousy through all of this, I've lost quite a bit of weight and feel so lethargic and unhealthy, with no energy.  Even when I try to get going and exercise, I feel nauseated and just don't have any energy to exercise or eat, it is so strange.  I went from being a very healthy person to just a mess these last few months, I can't believe it.  

[roger1327]

TooHip1973, this is another post from your board and after reading all of these posts, they describe exactly what I've been feeling over the last few months...

https://www.medhelp.org/posts/Herpes/All-over-joint-pain-from-herpes/show/612870

All over muscle aches and pains with headache, sore throat, etc.  I've never had this before my event a few months ago.  I'm still praying to the good lord this is not HSV2, but these symptoms definitely point to HSV2 contraction.  

Could HSV2 cause the muscle aches for 6-8 weeks?  That seems like a long time, would that be unusual?  It's so crazy, as I sit here and write this, I feel shooting pains through my arms and hands, as well as legs and feet.  I'm so sad about this.

I may have mentioned this early on in my post, but I'm married and have no idea what I'm going to tell my wife if I'm HSV2 positive?  Could we ever have unprotected sex again without the risk of me passing HSV2 on to her during our intimacy?

[TooHip1973]

I really think 10 seconds of genital to genital rubbing is prettt much low, low risk. I would never say impossible but I think you have no reason worry. Plus no symptoms on your part. I would move on if I was you. If you feel the need to test, wait 12 weeks and have a type specific IgG test performed.

[roger1327]

Thanks.  I did have sore throat, achy muscles, and a light red rash spread over my bottom and my hips, but looks nothing like Herpes.  My doctor thinks it's just another virus and/or anxiety and not related to potential herpes exposure.  

Neither my primary physician, my dermatologist, or myself could find any signs of lesions on my penis, and both said rash is not herpes related.  They both felt that if those symptoms were related to Herpes exposure, we would have also found lesions.  

It's been 5 weeks and I still feel achy muscles and have rash on my bottom and hips, but no lesions.  I feel a bit of burning when I start to urinate, but not awefully painful, might just be psychological, I don't know.  

I still have super high anxiety and I'm trying to put my mind at ease, but everything I feel on my body I think is related to potential Herpes.  Going to see my primary physician on Tuesday to see what he says.  Both doctors said to give the muscle aches and rash time to pass through my body.  I don't know what to think anymore.  Thanks for your thoughts.

[TooHip1973]

Tell your doctor everything. I don’t think this is hsv related. Skip an IGM test. It’s junk. You only want an IgG. So I assume this rash wasn’t swabbed?
The truth is, anxiety is the mind killer. Anything that’s going on, will be amplified by a brain that is filled with anxiety. That’s not to say your symptoms aren’t legitimate but the brain can increase their severity tenfold.
Have your doctor check for bacterial infections. Maybe something bacterial is affecting your urination. And if it will give you peace of mind, have the rash swabbed. I feel you’re overthinking this and I get it. Stress and it sounds like some regret, makes it hard to let go. Take some deep breath‘s and work With your doctor

[roger1327]

Thanks again, much appreciated.  No, we didn’t swab the rash as it looked nothing like HSV and there was nothing to swab.  It is just a light red rash that looks like diaper rash...no blisters, no pimples, no ulcers, just lightly red irritated skin.  Both doctors said nothing to do with HSV and nothing to swab.  

I’ll  see what the doctor says on Tuesday.  He thinks this is anxiety driven, but he said he won’t discount my symptoms, so he’ll continue working with me.  Hoping time will he’ll get me over this.  

When do you think I could take another IgG test and be confident in the negative result?

[TooHip1973]

Hsv testing isn’t perfect but for HSV2, which seems to be your concern, an IgG is pretty solid at 12 weeks. It can miss a portion of infections, about 8%, but 92% accuracy is excellent. I really think that this rash sounds unrelated but you could always have the skin swabbed, even if there aren’t any typical sores. It could be yeast, an allergic reaction to something (contact dermatitis) or simply irritated skin.
Work with your doc. Express your concerns but I think you are okay.

[roger1327]

Thank you.

[roger1327]

I’m feeling consripated lately and I read this could be a symptom of HSV2?  I also feel like I’m getting sores in my mouth (I see some small areas of irritation, but no major sores...can HSV2 affect the mouth?  I didn’t have any contact with my mouth, only penis to penis contact.  

Still concerned about the contact and contracting HSV2 with all these symptoms.  This is the 6th week since potential exposure.  Could I still be having symptoms 6 weeks after?  Still no lesions.

I also thought about HIV, but 4 tests weee negative (Dna Pcr and Duo antigen/antibody at 4+ weeks) and no penetration took place.  My anxiety is driving me crazy.  Doctor thinks it’s anxiety driven and I’m watching my body too closely.  I just don’t know.  Going to see him on Thursday, couldn’t get in today.

[roger1327]

I also wanted to add that the tip of my penis feels irritated, no signs of lesions and not too painful, just feels irritated and sore.  This has been on and off for several weeks.  Praying it’s not HSV2.

[TooHip1973]

Constipation is not a symptom. The sores in your mouth would be unrelated to HSV two. If someone gets genital herpes it doesn’t migrate to the mouth. That’s not how it works.
Six weeks of symptoms, no. I think you’re barking up the wrong tree. Anxiety could be definitely causing this. Obsessively checking out your genital area, do you understand your bacteria on your hands? All the poking and prodding and looking and obsessing. Wait till you see the doctor. Have him check everything out. I think you need to take a couple deep breath’s and relax a little. I think a lot of this is anxiety driven by guilt.

[roger1327]

Thanks for the reply.  What do you think about the tip of the penis being irritated and feeling sore, could this be related to HSV2?  It does look irritated and a bit swollen at the tip, just no signs of blisters or lesions.

[roger1327]

I saw my doctor today.  He doesn't think any of my symptoms are HSV2 related and we have not found any sign of lesions in 6 weeks, as well as 6 negative HSV blood tests (IgM and IgG), and a low risk exposure.  It still could be, but he doesn't think so, he also said he would stop blood testing unless we found a lesion to test, it would be up to me if I chose to continue blood testing.

I know IgM is not always an accurate test, but it is a bit reassuring all 3 were negative (18, 24, and 32 days post potential exposure).   My doctor said he's used them in the past for HSV2 and has had positive results that stayed positive later in IgG tests, but said it could also be false negative, I get it.  But it's something to help with my anxiety level.  The 3 negative IgG tests help too, even though they were early.  Doctor said he did them to help with my anxiety.

The mild red rash has also subsided and is not nearly as red as it was a few days ago.  I am still feeling discomfort in the tip of my penis during the day and at time when I urinate, but he looked it over and didn't see anything.  Doesn't think it would be a UTI or bacteria problem, wants to give it a bit more time to see if it resolves itself.  

Thought maybe I have a coxsackie virus which is causing the rash (as I had some rash on hands and feet as well) and the achy muscles.  I'll give it some time to watch over and probably get another IgG test at 10-12 weeks and hopefully be done with this.  Thank you for your help and support along the way, it really means a lot and I'm grateful you give your time to help others in these difficult situations.  All the best to you.

[roger1327]

I wanted to follow-up on my situation.  As I'm waiting to retest for HSV2 at 8 weeks and 12 weeks, I've recently begun to have some difficulty urinating in the middle of the night, it's now happened two times.  I struggle to start urinating and the stream is weak, it takes quite a while to empty the bladder.  This only seems to happen when I wake up at night.  My penis does feel a bit uncomfortable and a bit of burning at the tip when I start to urinate.  At times I also feel like my bladder is full and I need to go, but not much comes out.  My question is, could this be HSV2 and the nerves screwing things up?  I also have 2 long term hernias that I will be having surgery on in a few months, but they have never given me trouble urinating.  I also feel soreness and sometimes pinching feeling at the bottom of my scrotum on and off during the day, but no lesions or marks.  It is red, but it's always been red for many years.

I saw two doctors in the last week or so, they couldn't find lesions, no swollen lymph nodes (although several areas feel sore), but I did have a rash on hands and feet that has recently started to peel (dry skin), and wide spread light red rash on hips and bottom that lasted about 1.5 weeks, but is now gone.   Urine test was negative.  Over the past few months, I have had days of my temperature being elevated a degree or so (normally 97.6 and it went to 98.6-99 on several occasions).  It is now holding steady again around 97.6.  Not sure if that is actually a "fever" or not?

Tomorrow it will be 7 weeks since potential exposure of penis to penis rubbing and then a hand job (no penetration).  I also have no appetite and have been feeling lethargic everyday.  My anxiety is still very high over this situation.  I've had 4 negative HIV tests as well (combination of DNA PCR and 4th Gen Duo) at 12, 18, 24, and 32 days, and will retest again at 8 and 12 weeks for that as well.  I'm at my wits end thinking about all of this.  I haven't been able to focus on work and haven't been intimate with my wife in fear of infecting her.  Does this sound like HSV2 to anyone?  TooHip1973, you've been very helpful, do you have any further thoughts given my recent symptoms?  Anyone else who could help me?  Thank you in advance.