Aa
hsv-1 disclosure
I am a female in my late 20s and was diagnosed with genital hsv-1 last summer. Based on testing, it was clear that it had been transmitted to me (like so many others) through oral sex with a boyfriend.
I have had one (clear) recurrent outbreak in the past year and have done a lot of research and know all the standard lines: genital hsv-1 is associated with fewer outbreaks and less asymptomatic shedding because it is not in it's site of preference, most genital hsv-1 comes from oral sex, a significant percentage of the population has hsv-1 already (I've read 60-80%) with many acquiring it in childhood, having hsv-1 in one location reduces the chance you can get it in another location, genital-genital transmission of hsv-1 is possible but unlikely.
I understand (and am irritated with) the commonly held social standard that everyone who tests positive for any kind of hsv should disclose to any/all partners...all the time...period. This is irriating as a HIGH percentage of people have oral hsv-1, plenty of whom have no idea (including my exboyfriend who had never had a coldsore)...and there is never the expectation that someone who knows that have hsv-1 orally will disclose to partners prior to kissing. For example, if someone who knows they have oral hsv-1 (with or without symptoms) said, "I don't disclose my hsv status to partners" no one would gasp in horror or start lecturing. Even though MOST genital hsv-1 is aquired from someone with oral hsv-1, somehow the person with the less contageous (though more stigmatized version) is somehow bound by this "ethical oblication" to disclose.
I am a caring and responsible person who obviously doesn't want to pass this to anyone...though I also feel it isn't and shoudln't be viewed as traumatizing and earth shattering as people do.
So, what is my question? I want to be responsible, but I also want to enjoy a "normal" sex life the way everyone else does...including those who are ignorant about their own status or people who "just get pesky cold sores." I will obviously make up my own decision about disclosing, but am interested in what other people think:
So here it is: If I have casual sex with a guy (i.e. no long term relationship, no deep meaningful talks, etc.) and I a) make sure to avoid sex during an obvious outbreak, b) take antiviral medication to reduce outbreaks and asymptomatic shedding (which are rare as is), and c) USE A CONDOM (obviously as I would want to protect myself as well) - would it be safe to say that the risk of transmission is nearly microscopic? Yes, possible, but highly highly unlikely? Do people really feel like 100% disclosure is really the only way to be a moral and responsible person even if all efforts are made to protect this person...from this extremely common virus...which said guy statistically speaking is already likely to have?
I have had one (clear) recurrent outbreak in the past year and have done a lot of research and know all the standard lines: genital hsv-1 is associated with fewer outbreaks and less asymptomatic shedding because it is not in it's site of preference, most genital hsv-1 comes from oral sex, a significant percentage of the population has hsv-1 already (I've read 60-80%) with many acquiring it in childhood, having hsv-1 in one location reduces the chance you can get it in another location, genital-genital transmission of hsv-1 is possible but unlikely.
I understand (and am irritated with) the commonly held social standard that everyone who tests positive for any kind of hsv should disclose to any/all partners...all the time...period. This is irriating as a HIGH percentage of people have oral hsv-1, plenty of whom have no idea (including my exboyfriend who had never had a coldsore)...and there is never the expectation that someone who knows that have hsv-1 orally will disclose to partners prior to kissing. For example, if someone who knows they have oral hsv-1 (with or without symptoms) said, "I don't disclose my hsv status to partners" no one would gasp in horror or start lecturing. Even though MOST genital hsv-1 is aquired from someone with oral hsv-1, somehow the person with the less contageous (though more stigmatized version) is somehow bound by this "ethical oblication" to disclose.
I am a caring and responsible person who obviously doesn't want to pass this to anyone...though I also feel it isn't and shoudln't be viewed as traumatizing and earth shattering as people do.
So, what is my question? I want to be responsible, but I also want to enjoy a "normal" sex life the way everyone else does...including those who are ignorant about their own status or people who "just get pesky cold sores." I will obviously make up my own decision about disclosing, but am interested in what other people think:
So here it is: If I have casual sex with a guy (i.e. no long term relationship, no deep meaningful talks, etc.) and I a) make sure to avoid sex during an obvious outbreak, b) take antiviral medication to reduce outbreaks and asymptomatic shedding (which are rare as is), and c) USE A CONDOM (obviously as I would want to protect myself as well) - would it be safe to say that the risk of transmission is nearly microscopic? Yes, possible, but highly highly unlikely? Do people really feel like 100% disclosure is really the only way to be a moral and responsible person even if all efforts are made to protect this person...from this extremely common virus...which said guy statistically speaking is already likely to have?
I have hsv1 though sadly i am not sure if it is oral or genital.
After testing positive for hsv1 at 30 years old and growing up in a house hold with family members who got cold sores i had mixed emotions. Is hsv1 really a big deal? Technically probably not.
I then thought if i had a choice to be hsv free and not obsess over countless hours on the internet about hsv i would certainly go that route.
You chances of catching hsv2 or even hiv for that matter might be statistically low but would you like to know before putting yourself in that situation? Maybe maybe not.
I made the decision to tell the person i am dating. After being informed of the facts she is cool with it and we have an amazing sex life. In fact with this weighing on my mind while being with her i don't think our sex life would be as good without me getting that weight off my shoulder.
Sex is fun and natural, i can attest to having a pretty wide range of partners over the years i guess statistics caught ul with me :) Sex can also change your life in a blink of an eye.
Just my two cents.
After testing positive for hsv1 at 30 years old and growing up in a house hold with family members who got cold sores i had mixed emotions. Is hsv1 really a big deal? Technically probably not.
I then thought if i had a choice to be hsv free and not obsess over countless hours on the internet about hsv i would certainly go that route.
You chances of catching hsv2 or even hiv for that matter might be statistically low but would you like to know before putting yourself in that situation? Maybe maybe not.
I made the decision to tell the person i am dating. After being informed of the facts she is cool with it and we have an amazing sex life. In fact with this weighing on my mind while being with her i don't think our sex life would be as good without me getting that weight off my shoulder.
Sex is fun and natural, i can attest to having a pretty wide range of partners over the years i guess statistics caught ul with me :) Sex can also change your life in a blink of an eye.
Just my two cents.
By the way i completely agree with you about the double standard associated with oral versus genital hsv1. If anything you are probably better off having a non oral infection!
I assume you had a swab/culture of symptoms that determined it was genital HSV1?
That being said, I have genital HSV1 (confirmed with a swab/culture) that was transmitted to me by my partner who has it orally. I've had it almost two years now, and it really is a non-event in my life. I'm single again, in my 40's, and have dated - and yes, I've had to tell that I have genital HSV1. So far it's not been an issue. My sex life has never, ever been impacted by my genital HSV1. And while it might, at this point I don't have time for anyone who is not able to deal with such an incidental thing, in the scheme of crappy stuff in relationships!
As to telling, I always look at it like this: if a man knowingly had genital HSV1 and chose to not tell you, and had sex with you, how would you feel? I think it's safe to say you probably would be somewhere between upset and freaked out. Honesty is always the best policy. That being said, most folks who become educated about HSV will most likely realize you are worth it and the herpes is easily managed. You partner would need to find out their status as well, and as you may have read, more than 1/2 the adult population has oral HSV1, giving them significant protection against getting it genitally.
The fact that you know it's a lower risk to transmit genital HSV1 (especially using condoms and taking suppressive therapy - which by the way there are no stats it reduces shedding - I don't take it suppressively) makes it all the easier to tell someone, in my opinion. Don't play into the stigma yourself - you're making a huge assumption that a man will ditch you for herpes. And if he does, lord knows you're worth a LOT more than that anyway.
That being said, I have genital HSV1 (confirmed with a swab/culture) that was transmitted to me by my partner who has it orally. I've had it almost two years now, and it really is a non-event in my life. I'm single again, in my 40's, and have dated - and yes, I've had to tell that I have genital HSV1. So far it's not been an issue. My sex life has never, ever been impacted by my genital HSV1. And while it might, at this point I don't have time for anyone who is not able to deal with such an incidental thing, in the scheme of crappy stuff in relationships!
As to telling, I always look at it like this: if a man knowingly had genital HSV1 and chose to not tell you, and had sex with you, how would you feel? I think it's safe to say you probably would be somewhere between upset and freaked out. Honesty is always the best policy. That being said, most folks who become educated about HSV will most likely realize you are worth it and the herpes is easily managed. You partner would need to find out their status as well, and as you may have read, more than 1/2 the adult population has oral HSV1, giving them significant protection against getting it genitally.
The fact that you know it's a lower risk to transmit genital HSV1 (especially using condoms and taking suppressive therapy - which by the way there are no stats it reduces shedding - I don't take it suppressively) makes it all the easier to tell someone, in my opinion. Don't play into the stigma yourself - you're making a huge assumption that a man will ditch you for herpes. And if he does, lord knows you're worth a LOT more than that anyway.
Thank you for your comments. I have been living with HSV (not sure which one) since 1995 but became "single" again last Nov. and the burden of knowing I will have to share this with my next significant other has been overwhelming at times (leading to many tears). I sometimes feel sorry for myself because I know I am such a good person and can offer so much to the right man. At times I have been really depressed, other times I just carry on. Sometimes I am even happy despite the burden. After reading your post, I have great hope that the right guy will look beyond this problem and accept me for all of my other good qualities. Still, I am so scared to bring this up. But, I will tell him when the time is right, and if he dumps me over it, I will read your post over and over until I feel better about myself, then I will carry on with head held high. Thank you.
Consider starting your own post as well. It helps us to respond to you personally, and find out more about your herpes diagnosis.
Here's also a great post about Telling a Partner:
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/15788/Help--How-to-talk-to-your-partner-about-STDs
Here's also a great post about Telling a Partner:
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/15788/Help--How-to-talk-to-your-partner-about-STDs
Thank you for your gentle and non-judgemental response. Most times someone with any kind of genital herpes sugests the possibility of not disclosing, people respond as if you said you were contemplating drowning babies.
My diagnosis was confirmed by swab. I appreciate your sharing your story...I think it is helpful for people in the community to hear about people having a normal sex life. About a year after my diagnosis with my ex, and about 4 months after our breakup, I actually did have sex with a new partner. Because we had been friends first and talked a lot, I did tell him...he kind of obsessively researched for awhile and when he realized how COMMON HSV-1 was and how rare it was to trasmit genital HSV1 (particularly with the added protection of a condom), he NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER.
I agree that someone who wants to be in a committed relationship with me is likely not going to have a problem with it. But I'm talking about a night/weekend of fun. I know it's not considered ladylike for a women to just be interested in sex with someone....but I assure you this is what I'm talking about.
In response to your question about how would I feel if a man knowingly had genital HSV-1 and had sex with me anyway: Honestly, a man with oral HSV-1 (unknowingly) had oral sex with me. How do I feel about that? In the beginning I wanted to blame him. After all, it wasn't fair...I now had an "incurable STD" and he had the equivalent of asymptomatic cold sores (I don't know if I mentioned that he had never actually had a cold sore). But NOW the way I view it is a) it's a common issue that in a lot of cases in unavoidable (most people get HSV1 as kids and no one thinks of them as gross or - again - needing to dislcose) and b) I was just as much responsible. I am a grownup and had consensual sex...True, I didn't know he had it. But most grownups know that with sex (even protected sex) comes with SOME risk. Most people aren't tested for herpes...because they don't "need" to be if they're symptomatic...even though most people transmit it when they don't have symptoms. And these people do not "disclose" prior to sex: "Hey, I've never been tested for herpes, so though there's a chance I could have it, in which case there's a risk you could get it. Still want to sleep with me?"
I'm not trying to be flippant. But the truth is: I have it...and I don't think it's that big of a deal in the end. If I were talking about a contagious LIFE THREATENING disease, that'd be a different story. But herpes is not. And the social pressure to put 100% of the responsibility on the unlucky people with symptoms, then all the people who are untested or simply people who chose to engage in sex believing themselves to be uninfected...is absurd. It is based on the social stigma and I think it should be challenged.
My diagnosis was confirmed by swab. I appreciate your sharing your story...I think it is helpful for people in the community to hear about people having a normal sex life. About a year after my diagnosis with my ex, and about 4 months after our breakup, I actually did have sex with a new partner. Because we had been friends first and talked a lot, I did tell him...he kind of obsessively researched for awhile and when he realized how COMMON HSV-1 was and how rare it was to trasmit genital HSV1 (particularly with the added protection of a condom), he NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER.
I agree that someone who wants to be in a committed relationship with me is likely not going to have a problem with it. But I'm talking about a night/weekend of fun. I know it's not considered ladylike for a women to just be interested in sex with someone....but I assure you this is what I'm talking about.
In response to your question about how would I feel if a man knowingly had genital HSV-1 and had sex with me anyway: Honestly, a man with oral HSV-1 (unknowingly) had oral sex with me. How do I feel about that? In the beginning I wanted to blame him. After all, it wasn't fair...I now had an "incurable STD" and he had the equivalent of asymptomatic cold sores (I don't know if I mentioned that he had never actually had a cold sore). But NOW the way I view it is a) it's a common issue that in a lot of cases in unavoidable (most people get HSV1 as kids and no one thinks of them as gross or - again - needing to dislcose) and b) I was just as much responsible. I am a grownup and had consensual sex...True, I didn't know he had it. But most grownups know that with sex (even protected sex) comes with SOME risk. Most people aren't tested for herpes...because they don't "need" to be if they're symptomatic...even though most people transmit it when they don't have symptoms. And these people do not "disclose" prior to sex: "Hey, I've never been tested for herpes, so though there's a chance I could have it, in which case there's a risk you could get it. Still want to sleep with me?"
I'm not trying to be flippant. But the truth is: I have it...and I don't think it's that big of a deal in the end. If I were talking about a contagious LIFE THREATENING disease, that'd be a different story. But herpes is not. And the social pressure to put 100% of the responsibility on the unlucky people with symptoms, then all the people who are untested or simply people who chose to engage in sex believing themselves to be uninfected...is absurd. It is based on the social stigma and I think it should be challenged.
since when is it wrong for women to want to have one night stands and casual sex?????? sounds like lots of stigma's to work through!
I guess my belief is that each individual person needs to be responsible for THEIR OWN sexual health instead of putting it all on the "other" person to disclose. I know I can still get HSV2 or HIV and therefore need to take steps to protect MYSELF from both. I can't and won't sit back and think, "Well, if they have one of those they'll HAVE to tell me." My assumption is that everyone could be infected...I assume they are, take steps to protect myself, and in every encounter determine if it's a risk I'm willing to take.
As to your point about folks with oral HSV1 not disclosing, and oral sex being involved, well most don't realize perhaps that it can be transmitted via oral sex, especially in the absence of an active cold sore. My partner and I did not know it - at all. I knew he had had cold sores as a teen, but none in the time we dated. Yet of course, it happened to us through viral shedding (which we knew NOTHING about). So, much of it is lack of knowledge about how herpes is transmitted. I know when I shared this with a few of my close friends, none of them knew this was possible either.
I think most people are honest about their STD/herpes status, when in fact they know it - the problem is, the majority of folks who have herpes truly don't even know they are infected.
I think most people are honest about their STD/herpes status, when in fact they know it - the problem is, the majority of folks who have herpes truly don't even know they are infected.
I don't think that "the problem" is that most people don't know they are infected. If that were such a problem then herpes tests would be included in the standard STD testing - problem solved! Honestly, I believe the reason it's not is because the MAJORITY of people have HSV-1 and it's thought of as nothing because in most cases it is. Even when it is something it's far from earth shattering (and I'm saying that as someone who has it). And herpes is so heavily stigmatized that, if people found out they had it (particularly if they on't have symptoms), there'd be widespread hysteria. And the truth is most people who find out they have HSV1 are told there's nothing they need to do...both in terms of disclosure and in terms of altering their sexual practices. Suggesting that people who have cold sores (even those who know) disclose before they kiss someone, particularly when they are not symptomatic, is absurd.
I am not trying to argue with you, because I think your input is thoughtful, kind, and accurate. However, I think it is important to think about what we're all really talking about...and challenge the mainstream feelings and assumptions about herpes (INCLUDING the insistence that everyone MUST disclose ALL THE TIME in order to be responsible and moral)...because this "mainstream" mostly involves people who are ignorant and who live their life based on fear not the facts.
I am not trying to argue with you, because I think your input is thoughtful, kind, and accurate. However, I think it is important to think about what we're all really talking about...and challenge the mainstream feelings and assumptions about herpes (INCLUDING the insistence that everyone MUST disclose ALL THE TIME in order to be responsible and moral)...because this "mainstream" mostly involves people who are ignorant and who live their life based on fear not the facts.
I totally agree too with discussing your herpes status with a partner ( it's a discussion - ie 2 way, not a confession ) when you are aware of being infected. Now I'm always 100% honest here and I've said before that I don't disclose my hsv1 status prior to kissing - it's my personal decision I've made and I'm the one to live with the consequences so I"m certainly not anywhere near "perfect" myself either. Of course if someone asked prior to kissing me, I would tell them. I do discuss my hsv1 prior to performing oral sex though because I feel that's an important time to do so even though the odds at my age of a partner not having hsv1 orally overall are very low as well as the odds of transmission of my oral hsv1 to their genitals is overall very low. Even one night stands/casual sex, it's something I bring up ( along with my hsv2 status too of course ). I am not naive enough to think that a new partner of any sort, casual or long term, is going to be honest with me and as you already pointed out, there is a lot of implied risk with casual sex but to me, I see it as I don't have to add to it all plus perhaps my talking about what I know I have, will get a partner to bring up something they know they have that they weren't going to talk to me about otherwise. also we live in a very litigious society and if you would happen to transmit your hsv1 to a partner and didn't talk to them about it first, they can pursue legal charges against you. It's a lot more than it being the "right" thing to do, it's about protecting yourself too. No one wants their name all over the local paper about being sued for transmitting herpes to someone.
to me when you don't discuss your herpes with a potential partner, you are just adding to the stigma of std's too. Not saying this is why you don't want to discuss your status all the time but for some folks, it's a fear of not getting laid if they do bring it up which means not discussing it is just adding to the stigma because in your mind, it has a stigma. You have to get rid of your own ideas about sex and std's in order to get rid of the stigma society has unfairly placed on std's. we don't think twice if you sit at the lunch table at work talking about the wart you have on your foot that you think you got from the hotel room you stayed in last month but for some reason even though sex is everywhere around us and we are all having it, we still have the mistaken thought that if it's from sex, it has to be "bad" even though there isn't a darn bit of difference between a wart on the foot and a wart on your genitals. we go to the grocery store and someone sneezes on us and we aren't surprised when a week later we have a cold but for some reason we get naked and exchange body fluids with someone and we are surprised that we have transmitted germs between us and a partner. Makes no sense to me. this should be something we don't think twice about talking about with a potential partner. Perhaps if we stopped insisting that our politicians have to be church going people, we could get some of the Victorianism about sex and std's out of our daily lives and start being realistic about a lot of things about sex including premarital sex. , birth control and std's. If folks would allow our schools to actually teach us what we need to know about std's instead of insisting that they can only teach us just say no until we have a ring on our finger, that too would be a huge step in the right direction. obviously this is a soap box of mine....he he he.
It is sexually responsible to discuss std's and testing with a partner and not rely on just a condom as being protection so you don't have to worry about it. it's not about being ignorant or being fearful at all - it's discussing something you know you have and finding out if your potential partner has had testing or not. since you have hsv1, you can still contract hsv2 so knowing if a partner gets tested regularly or not and if they even know if they get tested for herpes or not when they do is important for yourself too.
bottom line is it's totally up to you whether you talk about your herpes or not. We really don't care one way or another unless we are sleeping with you. It's about making the choices you can sleep with at night as much as anything.
grace
to me when you don't discuss your herpes with a potential partner, you are just adding to the stigma of std's too. Not saying this is why you don't want to discuss your status all the time but for some folks, it's a fear of not getting laid if they do bring it up which means not discussing it is just adding to the stigma because in your mind, it has a stigma. You have to get rid of your own ideas about sex and std's in order to get rid of the stigma society has unfairly placed on std's. we don't think twice if you sit at the lunch table at work talking about the wart you have on your foot that you think you got from the hotel room you stayed in last month but for some reason even though sex is everywhere around us and we are all having it, we still have the mistaken thought that if it's from sex, it has to be "bad" even though there isn't a darn bit of difference between a wart on the foot and a wart on your genitals. we go to the grocery store and someone sneezes on us and we aren't surprised when a week later we have a cold but for some reason we get naked and exchange body fluids with someone and we are surprised that we have transmitted germs between us and a partner. Makes no sense to me. this should be something we don't think twice about talking about with a potential partner. Perhaps if we stopped insisting that our politicians have to be church going people, we could get some of the Victorianism about sex and std's out of our daily lives and start being realistic about a lot of things about sex including premarital sex. , birth control and std's. If folks would allow our schools to actually teach us what we need to know about std's instead of insisting that they can only teach us just say no until we have a ring on our finger, that too would be a huge step in the right direction. obviously this is a soap box of mine....he he he.
It is sexually responsible to discuss std's and testing with a partner and not rely on just a condom as being protection so you don't have to worry about it. it's not about being ignorant or being fearful at all - it's discussing something you know you have and finding out if your potential partner has had testing or not. since you have hsv1, you can still contract hsv2 so knowing if a partner gets tested regularly or not and if they even know if they get tested for herpes or not when they do is important for yourself too.
bottom line is it's totally up to you whether you talk about your herpes or not. We really don't care one way or another unless we are sleeping with you. It's about making the choices you can sleep with at night as much as anything.
grace
I appreciate your opinion and I agree that the stigma needs to change and that education is a big part of it. I find it interesting that you make the personal choice (yes, like everyone else) to not tell partners you have oral hsv-1 before kissing them. And just like anyone else, I support your decision...as everyone has the right to make their own. But what is the reason other than the stigma of something transmitted sexually (i.e. below the waste). If you don't "kiss" them below the waste it is therefore not an STD and therefore not as bad? (I don't think either is "bad," but this is just for argument's sake.) But what if you gave oral hsv-1 to one of these unsuspecting individuals when kissing them (and not disclosing) and they gave it to someone else performing oral sex because they had no idea they had it? Yes, we make decisions based on our own moral judgement, but we also make decisions based on what is socially acceptable and since anything below the waste is stimatized....well, that's the air we all breathe. But if you're saying that any time there's an exchange of bodily fluid people should disclose...well...that would include kissing.
Besides...you're MUCH more likely to give someone HSV-1 by kissing them than I'm likely to pass it by having vaginal intercourse with them...that's the truth. And it's the same virus.
And the reference to the court piece is far from a realistic concern as they would have to prove that you acted with the intent to give something to them. If someone had consensual sex with someone who has hsv-1 (which the majority of people have), was taking valtrex, and used a condom...they would have a tough time proving that anyone was maliciously trying to harm them. Besides...since so many people have hsv1 as children and never know (because they're not tested)...they would also have to prove that they KNOW they got it from you...also unlikely.
Like everyone else, my goal is not to give someone what I have. But insistent that responsibility for educating someone eles and preserving their health is up to me, and threatening legal action, adds fuel to the stigma that people who have been diagnosed with herpes are a reckless and filthy bunch. This is not true of me...as I act toward protecting myself and others in a way I see fit...nor is it true of my ex...who inadvertently gave it to me and is for sure NOT disclosing that fact before he proceeds forward with other intimate relationships (which, yes, include kissing).
Like everyone else, my goal is not to give someone what I have. But insistent that responsibility for educating someone eles and preserving their health is up to me, and threatening legal action, adds fuel to the stigma that people who have been diagnosed with herpes are a reckless and filthy bunch. This is not true of me...as I act toward protecting myself and others in a way I see fit...nor is it true of my ex...who inadvertently gave it to me and is for sure NOT disclosing that fact before he proceeds forward with other intimate relationships (which, yes, include kissing).
actually no it is very realistic. Many folks have been sued in civil court for knowing they had it and not informing partners. It's pretty easy to do since it's civil court. No malicious intent is needed.
So why don't I talk about my hsv1 prior to kissing? Well I don't talk about my cmv , ebv or any of the other herpes viruses I know I have that can reactivate at any time and shed and be contagious either. to me kissing is a far more implied risk for folks than sex/oral sex is. As I said, it's a choice I've made even though indeed I am well aware that hsv1 orally sheds far more than hsv1 genitally does.
grace
So why don't I talk about my hsv1 prior to kissing? Well I don't talk about my cmv , ebv or any of the other herpes viruses I know I have that can reactivate at any time and shed and be contagious either. to me kissing is a far more implied risk for folks than sex/oral sex is. As I said, it's a choice I've made even though indeed I am well aware that hsv1 orally sheds far more than hsv1 genitally does.
grace
Please cite one case where someone with genital hsv1 (not 2) was sued for transmitting it during intercourse. I find it unlikely as I have read that there has not been one documented case where it's clear it was passed this way. In addition, there are no known laws that require disclosure with hsv1 or 2.
Aside from this, all that threatening legal action does is scare those already hesitant about getting tested....into remaining ignorant (and NOT being tested) out of fear of being sued. I would think that someone in your position would prefer to be working against criminalization of such a thing, versus perpetuating the fear tactics that imply that anyone with any strand of this virus (who happens to KNOW about it) is a reckless criminal for not disclosing their status...in spite of other attempts to be educated and protect their partner(s).
And I would disagree with you that kissing is more of an implied risk than sex. I believe the general population has FAR more of an understanding about the risks of what can be transmitted during sex. Most people feel kissing is by nature benign and would be shocked to know that you could get this "incurable virus" (that can later be passed orally OR genitally) when there is not even any sign of a cold sore.
On general principal, I obviously have nothing to say about your decision not to disclose before kissing. But if you're going to imply directly or indirectly that I am sexually irresponsible for not disclosing a less contagious version...then that same rule applies to you.
Aside from this, all that threatening legal action does is scare those already hesitant about getting tested....into remaining ignorant (and NOT being tested) out of fear of being sued. I would think that someone in your position would prefer to be working against criminalization of such a thing, versus perpetuating the fear tactics that imply that anyone with any strand of this virus (who happens to KNOW about it) is a reckless criminal for not disclosing their status...in spite of other attempts to be educated and protect their partner(s).
And I would disagree with you that kissing is more of an implied risk than sex. I believe the general population has FAR more of an understanding about the risks of what can be transmitted during sex. Most people feel kissing is by nature benign and would be shocked to know that you could get this "incurable virus" (that can later be passed orally OR genitally) when there is not even any sign of a cold sore.
On general principal, I obviously have nothing to say about your decision not to disclose before kissing. But if you're going to imply directly or indirectly that I am sexually irresponsible for not disclosing a less contagious version...then that same rule applies to you.
google it. plenty of info on herpes and lawsuits out there when you do so.
when I said implied risk with kissing I meant of contracting something in general - colds, flu, gastroenteritis etc. same goes with ebv, cmv etc hence why I mentioned them.
also it worth mentioning that you also might have hsv1 orally but just no easy way to know it unless you get an obvious cold sore. The few studies we have on it show that anywhere from 1/4-2/3's of folks who have hsv1 genitally,also contracted it orally around the same time. It's worthwhile to discuss this with potential partners to decide if protected oral is worthwhile or not too. Most folks who contract hsv1 orally don't get obvious cold sores to know it.
grace
when I said implied risk with kissing I meant of contracting something in general - colds, flu, gastroenteritis etc. same goes with ebv, cmv etc hence why I mentioned them.
also it worth mentioning that you also might have hsv1 orally but just no easy way to know it unless you get an obvious cold sore. The few studies we have on it show that anywhere from 1/4-2/3's of folks who have hsv1 genitally,also contracted it orally around the same time. It's worthwhile to discuss this with potential partners to decide if protected oral is worthwhile or not too. Most folks who contract hsv1 orally don't get obvious cold sores to know it.
grace
I have never heard of a lawsuit involving hsv1, which is why I respectfully ask that if you (as a supposed expert) know of one to please share it with me. Unless you can cite an example of this (as you brought it up), I am not longer interested in any further feedback.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Are you also suggesting that I am somehow MORE bound by the obligation to disclose that I MIGHT have oral type1 (though statistically speaking it is just as likely that I do not) than you have an obligation to disclose to those you kiss that you KNOW you have oral type1?? Such an implication is absurd, offensive, and wildly hypocritical.
If you make the decision to disclose your own status based on the arbitrary rules that you create...which have no correlation with the actual contageousness of the virus and the statistical risk of transmission, then you are far from being in a position to make sweeping statements about "sexual responsibility" or judgements about what others need to be doing.
If you make the decision to disclose your own status based on the arbitrary rules that you create...which have no correlation with the actual contageousness of the virus and the statistical risk of transmission, then you are far from being in a position to make sweeping statements about "sexual responsibility" or judgements about what others need to be doing.
there are several people on hhp as well as herpes coldsores who have successfully sued the partners that transmitted hsv to their genitals. There are also entire forums set up for it now on the herpes dating sites too. It's why I mention it.
once again no one is telling you what you have to do. you obviously have the information you need to make your own decisions about your hsv1. you asked for opinions and information and you got it.
once again no one is telling you what you have to do. you obviously have the information you need to make your own decisions about your hsv1. you asked for opinions and information and you got it.
In my honest opinion, anyone who pursues legal action against someone that "gave" them an STD needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and take some personal responsibility. Whenever you engage in a sexual interaction with someone else, you get whatever comes with that. Those people who don't ask, don't know their own status, don't demand to use protection, don't demand to see their partner's test results, etc. etc. have no one to blame but themself.
Did I know that I could get genital herpes from receiving oral sex from my boyfriend, who NEVER had a cold sore? No. And neither did he. Would I feel differently if he did know and didn't tell me? Perhaps. But the truth is that the responsibility would still lie with ME. He did not force his head between my legs. Even if he had known...I'm not going to cry and bring him to court. That's absurd. I'm a grown woman and made a choice. Period.
I would still love to hear about any case in which someone was successfully prosecuted (in civial or criminal court) for transmitting hsv-1. Whether or not it would be necessary to prove "intent to harm," the person making the acusation would AT LEAST have to prove that YOU were the one that "harmed" them (i.e. gave them type1). And the truth is that many people get it as children...and people (particularly men) are not tested until they have symptoms...even after first getting symptoms, there's NO way of knowing when exposure first happened. If there's no way to prove it, technically they are trying to say that you "harmed" them with something they very well could have already had.
You are right...I was hoping to get people's opinions because I feel the issue of disclosure needs to be discussed. I was not looking for someone to put their values of moral or sexual responsibilty on me that they are completely unable to support with their own behavior, a particular law, or statistics associated with REAL medical risk.
Did I know that I could get genital herpes from receiving oral sex from my boyfriend, who NEVER had a cold sore? No. And neither did he. Would I feel differently if he did know and didn't tell me? Perhaps. But the truth is that the responsibility would still lie with ME. He did not force his head between my legs. Even if he had known...I'm not going to cry and bring him to court. That's absurd. I'm a grown woman and made a choice. Period.
I would still love to hear about any case in which someone was successfully prosecuted (in civial or criminal court) for transmitting hsv-1. Whether or not it would be necessary to prove "intent to harm," the person making the acusation would AT LEAST have to prove that YOU were the one that "harmed" them (i.e. gave them type1). And the truth is that many people get it as children...and people (particularly men) are not tested until they have symptoms...even after first getting symptoms, there's NO way of knowing when exposure first happened. If there's no way to prove it, technically they are trying to say that you "harmed" them with something they very well could have already had.
You are right...I was hoping to get people's opinions because I feel the issue of disclosure needs to be discussed. I was not looking for someone to put their values of moral or sexual responsibilty on me that they are completely unable to support with their own behavior, a particular law, or statistics associated with REAL medical risk.
I just found this forum because I'm looking for advice on my own possible HSV infection. I'm pretty frightened that I might be infected, to be honest. Worse, I might have had the virus transmitted to me not through sexual contact but through the sharing of smoking implements. I just found your thread and I felt compelled to comment.
"Those people who don't ask, don't know their own status, don't demand to use protection, don't demand to see their partner's test results, etc. etc. have no one to blame but themself. "
I don't understand your logic. Let's say you go eat a restaurant and you get salmonella poisoning that left you ill and cost you money in terms of medical care. You find out that the chef knew that his food was contaminated and served it to you anyway. Would you say it was your fault for not asking the chef if his food was contaminated? After all, anytime you eat certain foods you run the risk of getting salmonella ... and if you had asked, the chef would've told you his food was contaminated. It seems absurd to me. There are social and legal conventions that require that we warn people when we're knowingly putting their health at risk. It's what allows for social trust and allows society to function without people having to be paranoid and assume the worst.
People should be encouraged to ask questions and be safe, of course. But if you knowingly run a risk of affecting someone's health you should let them know. Just because it's not a big deal for you does not mean it wouldn't be for them. Based on what I'm reading, the virus reacts differently depending on a person's immune system. What might be asymptomatic for you might be a horrendously painful infection requiring thousands of dollars in retroviral medication for someone you infect. The fact that you would tell them if they ask but not if they don't seems like you're taking your particular ethical stance for self-centered reasons: so you can avoid having uncomfortable discussions or run the risk of having your overtures rejected ... unless someone calls you out. Personally (not saying this reflects widely held opinion or not) I am fairly certain I have oral HSV1 but I would be utterly devastated if I had sex with someone who could transmit genital HSV1 to me, no matter how low the risk. I'm now getting educated on this topic and would know to ask someone before hand but there are a lot of reasons someone might not ask their partner about the risks beyond ignorance or apathy. A lack of access to educational resources on the topic is one big reason.
I just googled "lawsuit HSV" and found a wealth of material on the legal topic you asked about. This comment from a Time magazine article stands out:
"These claims are being given momentum by an appellate court ruling last December in New York, a state that exerts substantial legal influence beyond its boundaries. The decision upheld the right of Jane Maharam, 56, to sue her former husband Robert, 56, on her claim that he had herpes and did not tell her. The court found that such partners have a legal duty to inform each other about their venereal diseases."
I don't know if this legal ruling still holds precedence, the Time article ("Sexes: The Cost of Kissing and Not Telling" if you want to look it up) is from 1987. But at the very least it demonstrates that federal courts have awarded multi-million dollar settlement against HSV infected people who knowingly passed on the virus in the past.
"Those people who don't ask, don't know their own status, don't demand to use protection, don't demand to see their partner's test results, etc. etc. have no one to blame but themself. "
I don't understand your logic. Let's say you go eat a restaurant and you get salmonella poisoning that left you ill and cost you money in terms of medical care. You find out that the chef knew that his food was contaminated and served it to you anyway. Would you say it was your fault for not asking the chef if his food was contaminated? After all, anytime you eat certain foods you run the risk of getting salmonella ... and if you had asked, the chef would've told you his food was contaminated. It seems absurd to me. There are social and legal conventions that require that we warn people when we're knowingly putting their health at risk. It's what allows for social trust and allows society to function without people having to be paranoid and assume the worst.
People should be encouraged to ask questions and be safe, of course. But if you knowingly run a risk of affecting someone's health you should let them know. Just because it's not a big deal for you does not mean it wouldn't be for them. Based on what I'm reading, the virus reacts differently depending on a person's immune system. What might be asymptomatic for you might be a horrendously painful infection requiring thousands of dollars in retroviral medication for someone you infect. The fact that you would tell them if they ask but not if they don't seems like you're taking your particular ethical stance for self-centered reasons: so you can avoid having uncomfortable discussions or run the risk of having your overtures rejected ... unless someone calls you out. Personally (not saying this reflects widely held opinion or not) I am fairly certain I have oral HSV1 but I would be utterly devastated if I had sex with someone who could transmit genital HSV1 to me, no matter how low the risk. I'm now getting educated on this topic and would know to ask someone before hand but there are a lot of reasons someone might not ask their partner about the risks beyond ignorance or apathy. A lack of access to educational resources on the topic is one big reason.
I just googled "lawsuit HSV" and found a wealth of material on the legal topic you asked about. This comment from a Time magazine article stands out:
"These claims are being given momentum by an appellate court ruling last December in New York, a state that exerts substantial legal influence beyond its boundaries. The decision upheld the right of Jane Maharam, 56, to sue her former husband Robert, 56, on her claim that he had herpes and did not tell her. The court found that such partners have a legal duty to inform each other about their venereal diseases."
I don't know if this legal ruling still holds precedence, the Time article ("Sexes: The Cost of Kissing and Not Telling" if you want to look it up) is from 1987. But at the very least it demonstrates that federal courts have awarded multi-million dollar settlement against HSV infected people who knowingly passed on the virus in the past.
Thank you for writing. I welcome your thoughts and questions. First, I have to say, I give credit for doing research about your possible infection and for exploring/questioning.
I understand herpes can be painful...my first genital hsv1 outbreak was very painful and distressing. I do not have this discussion lightly. In fact, if you (others) read my entire stream carefully, it reflects that since my diagnosis last summer I have only had one new partner to whom I DID disclose BEFORE any sexual contact.
I understand your comparison with salmonella, however, it is quite different. My stance is that people should not jump to blame people who know (vs those who don't). The reality is that people who don't know they are infected are the ones (typically) unknowingly infecting others. I feel the misinformation and the witchtrial-esq stance approach people take to STDs are WRONG and contribute to the stigma and people not being tested themselves.
Do you think any untested person reading these forums is going to run out and say, "Hey, I've never had symptoms, but let me run out and beg my medical professional for a test. Maybe I'll find out that I have antibodies for hsv2 (or1) and I'll have to warn all my past, present, and future partners, risk legal action, risk public ridicule, etc."? Of course not. The truth of the matter is that if you did test positive for hsv1....and never had symptoms...most medical professionals would tell you not to do anything different. They'd pat you on the head, say most people get it as kids, and deny that you "have" to disclose. Heck, oral herpes are not even considered an STD...though it's what causes genital hsv1, which is still genital herpes. This nearly made my brain explode when I realized that I now have an STD...and TECHNICALLY the boyfriend that gave it to me doesn't.
By continually coming down on people who are positive who even SUGGEST not disclosing, we are fueling the fire of ignorance and accounting responsibility in the wrong direction.
I have done my research. Though I STILL have not decided if I would disclose in a CASUAL encounter (with comdoms and antiviral medication), I know MY virus. Genital hsv1 is not NEARLY as active as genital type 2...OR oral hsv1 ("cold sores"). My virus is statistically LESS contagious than the one most people consider "harmless" when they go out making out with strangers and don't think anything about it. Why don't MOST people think one thing about disclosing before kissing? True, some people don't know they have it (i.e. my ex). Some people know they have it, but don't know it can be transmitted when they don't have symptoms (still talking about cold cores). And some people (see Grace above), KNOW they have it and KNOW it can be transmitted without symptoms...but believe kissing is an "implied risk"? For the sake of argument (as someone who HAS type 1), I'm glad I have it below my waste instead of on my face. The cold sore type recurres more, is extremely painful (from what I've heard), is unsightly, and has actually more risk of medical complications (i.e. ocular herpes).
From what I've read from REAL LIFE medical professional as well as those on sites like this...genital hsv1 is actually DIFFICULT to transmit to a partner. Some providers have expressed they believe it's near impossible...possible....but highly highly unlikely. It doesn't like to be below the waste (hence it losing some of it's umpf with the reduced recurrences). It doesn't like to be there on me...and it doesn't like to be below the waste on my partner. Plus...envisioning the added protection of a condom (which, yes, is not 100% either)... I guess my point is that we are not talking about REAL risk. We are talking about a general fear of anything going on below the waste. If we were talking about people only needing to disclose if they were ACTUALLY risky...well, that would be a difficult and slippery slope.
I find the article you sited interesting...but I'm not too worried about it. Certainly if people who are married are not having these conversations there's something wrong...and there obviously was...they got divorced. Do you know that in many states sadomy is also illegal? And, yes, a woman's attorney during a divorce, dusted off this old law book and the husband ultimately was charged with something absurd and she got all kinds of money. To clarify, they participated in consensual anal sex...as many couples do...but some old random law resulted in him getting...well, screwed. Heck, people can sue a mistress for alienation of affection...also absurd...people have free will. Just because someone CAN sue, doesn't make their argument reasonable...or one that should support social standards.
Again, I will respond to any post that is respectful and actually welcomes dialogue. I appreciate your experiences and thoughts on the matter. (Sorry this was so long and wordy.)
I understand herpes can be painful...my first genital hsv1 outbreak was very painful and distressing. I do not have this discussion lightly. In fact, if you (others) read my entire stream carefully, it reflects that since my diagnosis last summer I have only had one new partner to whom I DID disclose BEFORE any sexual contact.
I understand your comparison with salmonella, however, it is quite different. My stance is that people should not jump to blame people who know (vs those who don't). The reality is that people who don't know they are infected are the ones (typically) unknowingly infecting others. I feel the misinformation and the witchtrial-esq stance approach people take to STDs are WRONG and contribute to the stigma and people not being tested themselves.
Do you think any untested person reading these forums is going to run out and say, "Hey, I've never had symptoms, but let me run out and beg my medical professional for a test. Maybe I'll find out that I have antibodies for hsv2 (or1) and I'll have to warn all my past, present, and future partners, risk legal action, risk public ridicule, etc."? Of course not. The truth of the matter is that if you did test positive for hsv1....and never had symptoms...most medical professionals would tell you not to do anything different. They'd pat you on the head, say most people get it as kids, and deny that you "have" to disclose. Heck, oral herpes are not even considered an STD...though it's what causes genital hsv1, which is still genital herpes. This nearly made my brain explode when I realized that I now have an STD...and TECHNICALLY the boyfriend that gave it to me doesn't.
By continually coming down on people who are positive who even SUGGEST not disclosing, we are fueling the fire of ignorance and accounting responsibility in the wrong direction.
I have done my research. Though I STILL have not decided if I would disclose in a CASUAL encounter (with comdoms and antiviral medication), I know MY virus. Genital hsv1 is not NEARLY as active as genital type 2...OR oral hsv1 ("cold sores"). My virus is statistically LESS contagious than the one most people consider "harmless" when they go out making out with strangers and don't think anything about it. Why don't MOST people think one thing about disclosing before kissing? True, some people don't know they have it (i.e. my ex). Some people know they have it, but don't know it can be transmitted when they don't have symptoms (still talking about cold cores). And some people (see Grace above), KNOW they have it and KNOW it can be transmitted without symptoms...but believe kissing is an "implied risk"? For the sake of argument (as someone who HAS type 1), I'm glad I have it below my waste instead of on my face. The cold sore type recurres more, is extremely painful (from what I've heard), is unsightly, and has actually more risk of medical complications (i.e. ocular herpes).
From what I've read from REAL LIFE medical professional as well as those on sites like this...genital hsv1 is actually DIFFICULT to transmit to a partner. Some providers have expressed they believe it's near impossible...possible....but highly highly unlikely. It doesn't like to be below the waste (hence it losing some of it's umpf with the reduced recurrences). It doesn't like to be there on me...and it doesn't like to be below the waste on my partner. Plus...envisioning the added protection of a condom (which, yes, is not 100% either)... I guess my point is that we are not talking about REAL risk. We are talking about a general fear of anything going on below the waste. If we were talking about people only needing to disclose if they were ACTUALLY risky...well, that would be a difficult and slippery slope.
I find the article you sited interesting...but I'm not too worried about it. Certainly if people who are married are not having these conversations there's something wrong...and there obviously was...they got divorced. Do you know that in many states sadomy is also illegal? And, yes, a woman's attorney during a divorce, dusted off this old law book and the husband ultimately was charged with something absurd and she got all kinds of money. To clarify, they participated in consensual anal sex...as many couples do...but some old random law resulted in him getting...well, screwed. Heck, people can sue a mistress for alienation of affection...also absurd...people have free will. Just because someone CAN sue, doesn't make their argument reasonable...or one that should support social standards.
Again, I will respond to any post that is respectful and actually welcomes dialogue. I appreciate your experiences and thoughts on the matter. (Sorry this was so long and wordy.)
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Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
