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Can I request my gallbladder to be tested for Lyme?
I'm having my gallbladder removed in the near future because it is no longer functioning and I'm curious if I can request the surgeon to biopsy it for spirochetes.
I know that I am positive for Lyme antibodies, but it would be interesting to know if bb is present in my organs.
I'm just hesitant to bring it up since I've had awful experiences with doctors treating me like a psych patient when I start talking about Lyme disease.
It would be nice if I could have this surgery in a more Lyme literate state, but realistically I'm stuck in Texas. I'm sure most of you know the problems that us lymies have here lol.
Has anyone here had an organ biopsy done before? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! :-)
I know that I am positive for Lyme antibodies, but it would be interesting to know if bb is present in my organs.
I'm just hesitant to bring it up since I've had awful experiences with doctors treating me like a psych patient when I start talking about Lyme disease.
It would be nice if I could have this surgery in a more Lyme literate state, but realistically I'm stuck in Texas. I'm sure most of you know the problems that us lymies have here lol.
Has anyone here had an organ biopsy done before? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! :-)
Megan
I had my gallbladder out about 3-4 years ago. I am not sure but I can only guess it was lyme related. I think the saying of people who need their GB out is "fat, forty, etc. something like that. I've always been super fit, very thin and eat very healthy. My doctor never suspected GB disease. It wasn't until after my surgery though that all my symptoms started and then realized I had lyme.
I had my gallbladder out about 3-4 years ago. I am not sure but I can only guess it was lyme related. I think the saying of people who need their GB out is "fat, forty, etc. something like that. I've always been super fit, very thin and eat very healthy. My doctor never suspected GB disease. It wasn't until after my surgery though that all my symptoms started and then realized I had lyme.
Am I reading your comment correctly that the purpose in testing MeganY24's gallbladder for Lyme bacteria would be less for her personal benefit than for research and data collection?
Interesting, but that does not bode well considering that there is a blood/brain barrier and the brain is one of the areas with low blood flow. I think I would find a lab to test the gallbladder if I was having it removed, it may as well serve some purpose. I still have mine, but I did have some gallbladder problems when I was a kid. There was an article on a TX veterinary sight, they are finding more lyme in TX ticks (good name for a sports team) now. That might in the future give some help to those afflicted with Lyme there.
Very interesting! This fits with what Ricobord and others have read and posted about the migration of the Lyme bacteria into tissues with low blood flow, so that finding evidence of infection through blood tests is not necessarily the last word.
The article in this link describes a patient's gall bladder tissue being tested for Bb Spirochetes. Of interest:
"The family physician asked that biopsy specimens of the removed gall bladder be tested in a reference laboratory specializing in tick-borne diseases (31). The resultant PCR test on her gall bladder tissue was positive for DNA of the causative Bb spirochete of Lyme disease. This PCR biopsy confirmation of a seronegative patient's Lyme diagnosis illustrates that, while Western Blot and PCR blood sample testing, especially for active late stage LYD, may not show a positive antibody response, a tissue PCR analysis may confirm the diagnosis, even when the patient has previously been treated. PCR's done on blood are less satisfactory since Bb prefers an in-tissue environment."
Here's the link:
http://www.lymenet.de/literatur/vtsherr_gut.htm
"The family physician asked that biopsy specimens of the removed gall bladder be tested in a reference laboratory specializing in tick-borne diseases (31). The resultant PCR test on her gall bladder tissue was positive for DNA of the causative Bb spirochete of Lyme disease. This PCR biopsy confirmation of a seronegative patient's Lyme diagnosis illustrates that, while Western Blot and PCR blood sample testing, especially for active late stage LYD, may not show a positive antibody response, a tissue PCR analysis may confirm the diagnosis, even when the patient has previously been treated. PCR's done on blood are less satisfactory since Bb prefers an in-tissue environment."
Here's the link:
http://www.lymenet.de/literatur/vtsherr_gut.htm
I just found something on the IGeneX website that I've posted to the Lyme page here, called 'An Understanding of Laboratory Testing'. It includes this sentence:
"The presence of detectable spirochetes in infected tissue is rare."
It is at -- www -- igenex [dot] .com / labtest.htm
... which would lead me to think that a biopsy of your gallbladder may not be effective. Dunno. fwiw, another data point for you.
"The presence of detectable spirochetes in infected tissue is rare."
It is at -- www -- igenex [dot] .com / labtest.htm
... which would lead me to think that a biopsy of your gallbladder may not be effective. Dunno. fwiw, another data point for you.
I hear you.
I recently posted here about the Texas Lyme Disease Assn -- was that in a post to you? In many states where the medical bigwigs are not believers in Lyme as anything serious, there may be a hearty crew of docs who do their own thinking but do it quietly. You might contact the TXLDA and ask for the names of Lyme docs near you, and go for a second opinion. You don't even need to tell your current doc. San Antonio is pretty sizeable, as I recall, and there are likely more than a couple of LLMDs lurking.
About the gallbladder, how would you know if the person doing the biopsy/analysis/whatever you call it know how to look and know what s/he was looking at? 'There are none so blind as those who will not see...'
Consulting with an LLMD would be the way I'd go, and I certainly would do it. The worst (?) you will find out is that you don't have Lyme. Hmm, that didn't come out right. But you get the point.
Have you looked for an LLMD by contacting ILADS? email to -- contact [at] ILADS [dot] org -- and tell them you need an LLMD within X miles of San Antonio TX. Also check the TXLDA website ...
There are often Lyme-friendly docs who just keep their heads down and out of the line of fire. In California, the LLMDs don't need to hide, and yet I wasn't aware of any LLMDs here, tho one of the well known docs is ten minutes away. So in TX, they may be extra invisible, but still there.
I just did a google search for -- lyme gallbladder -- and wow, there were a lot of hits. One of them is a link to a website run by a doc who blogs/posts on a website as 'LymeMD' -- he's very interesting to read -- knowledgeable and thoughtful, but not too technical.
Let us know how we can help, ok, and especially how you do. You're doing now what I learned from someone long ago as 'working the problem' -- turning things over and over in your mind and looking for information and thinking through the situation till things start to fall together. That's good!
I recently posted here about the Texas Lyme Disease Assn -- was that in a post to you? In many states where the medical bigwigs are not believers in Lyme as anything serious, there may be a hearty crew of docs who do their own thinking but do it quietly. You might contact the TXLDA and ask for the names of Lyme docs near you, and go for a second opinion. You don't even need to tell your current doc. San Antonio is pretty sizeable, as I recall, and there are likely more than a couple of LLMDs lurking.
About the gallbladder, how would you know if the person doing the biopsy/analysis/whatever you call it know how to look and know what s/he was looking at? 'There are none so blind as those who will not see...'
Consulting with an LLMD would be the way I'd go, and I certainly would do it. The worst (?) you will find out is that you don't have Lyme. Hmm, that didn't come out right. But you get the point.
Have you looked for an LLMD by contacting ILADS? email to -- contact [at] ILADS [dot] org -- and tell them you need an LLMD within X miles of San Antonio TX. Also check the TXLDA website ...
There are often Lyme-friendly docs who just keep their heads down and out of the line of fire. In California, the LLMDs don't need to hide, and yet I wasn't aware of any LLMDs here, tho one of the well known docs is ten minutes away. So in TX, they may be extra invisible, but still there.
I just did a google search for -- lyme gallbladder -- and wow, there were a lot of hits. One of them is a link to a website run by a doc who blogs/posts on a website as 'LymeMD' -- he's very interesting to read -- knowledgeable and thoughtful, but not too technical.
Let us know how we can help, ok, and especially how you do. You're doing now what I learned from someone long ago as 'working the problem' -- turning things over and over in your mind and looking for information and thinking through the situation till things start to fall together. That's good!
I don't really know how to answer that question... I've had so many random health issues and quite a few of my organs have decided to go on strike, and yet all of my specialist still say that none of my problems are related to Lyme.
On one hand it would be a relief to hear that my gallbladder wasn't full of bb, but on the other hand maybe a positive biopsy would make all of these close minded doctors open their eyes and realize how much damage Lyme Disease is actually capable of. Kwim?
On one hand it would be a relief to hear that my gallbladder wasn't full of bb, but on the other hand maybe a positive biopsy would make all of these close minded doctors open their eyes and realize how much damage Lyme Disease is actually capable of. Kwim?
I lived in Texas when I realized I had Lyme. Very frustrating.
Not sure if it would be worth it to ask non believers to check for Lyme.
Not sure if it would be worth it to ask non believers to check for Lyme.
Question: What would be the benefit of knowing there are Lyme bacteria in your gallbladder?
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