Herbal treatment vs. antibiotics

[Sandyside]

I have had Lyme's probably 15 years, finally diagnosed. I have been trying herbal treatments first, I figure I can always go to antibiotics later, if the herbs dont' work.  But antibiotics don't always get every last spirochete either, especially in a long-term infection like mine.   In which case, I will want my gut flora/immune system as strong as possible.  Which means go with herbs, not gut scouring antibiotics.

Anybody have some experience with this conundrum? Good or bad results from herbal stuff?

P.S.    I am VERY VERY lucky that my main symptoms are fatigue and brain fog,  if I had insomnia or pain like others describe, I would be pounding on the door for the strongest  antibiotics they have...

[JackieCalifornia]

You might also try taking magnesium (Mg) supplements -- Lyme bacteria are said to use up Mg in the body, so it's easy to get deficient.  I take Mg every day, morning and evening, but *not* the combination of Mg and calcium -- I have read that that blend is not very effective.  

I take or have taken Mg citrate, orotate, asparate, or malate or some blend of those.  I often order it online because the local pharmacy doesn't seem to have a big selection sometimes.  (One favorite of mine is Magnesium CAO, short for 'citrate, aspartate, orotate', but you may prefer another.)

... and I'm thinking that lavender oil sounds wonderful.  :)

[Barbette60]

I had horrible insomnia and am doing better by taking 10 mgs melatonin and diffusing lavender essential oil next to my bed.

[Barbette60]

I had horrible insomnia and am doing better by taking 10 mgs melatonin and diffusing lavender essential oil next to my bed.

[JackieCalifornia]

There are antibiotics such as Flagyl which can penetrate the biofilms (slimy areas the bacteria create to shield themselves from the action of the body's immune system).  Then other meds are used to kill the revealed Lyme bacteria.  It worked for me quite well and for others I know.

[TheLightSeeker]

Hey mojo,

Look into the possibility of overactive adrenals, due to ongoing biological stress, in regards to your insomnia.
Here's a pertinent study:
Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism August 2001; 86:3787-3794

It's a catch 22, since insomnia affects hormonal levels associated with  weakened immunity, accelerating aging, depression, cfs, cognitive issues and more.

Sleeping on you back and breathing through the mouth, should be avoided
also, in order to improve sleep quality.

Cheers.
Niko

[JackieCalifornia]

.... and PS, I never felt worse on the meds than I did before starting treatment.  I am generally quite sensitive to all sorts of meds and a number of common foods.  Everybody is different.

[kathloj]

I went through the same dilemma; herbal antimicrobials or antibiotics. After much research and hearing from others, I have chosen The Cowden protocol. Hearing good things about it and people being put in to remission with it, and no damage to gut. I will keep you posted on how it goes, however, as the others mentioned, don't wait too long to start treatment!
Best of luck to you.

[JackieCalifornia]

Ditto your comments.

[nutrinut_bob]

Not to mention the fact that anytime you stop meds, you're running a risk that the microvermin will then produce progeny resistant to that medication.  I'm no saying absolutely that they will, but the risk is real.

[JackieCalifornia]

It's a tough call -- whether you are run down because of the infection or the meds ... or both. I wouldn't wait too long before starting the abx -- feeling lousy may be partly the infection and not just a side effect of the meds.

[Sandyside]

Thanks, I will try them next!  I just did a re-test of my Bartonella - the herbal stuff I was on the last 6 months didn't do the job. But, I got pretty run down on it, so I am taking a break from meds, until I can get built back up.

This Lyme's and associated is a tough row to hoe, no doubt. The uncertainty around treatment, and  lack of accurate testing make it doubly difficult to manage. Nice to hear you all got thru it!

[mojogal]

I believe the ABX did help. Hottinunyia is very good for Bartonella. I take that. Samento and banderol are very good for killing the Lyme.

[mojogal]

Sorry forgot to say, nothing yet to help the insomnia.

[mojogal]

Abx did help. I take hottunyia for bartonella. Samento and Banderol have been studied and kill the Lyme. I would look into the Cowden protocol.

[Sandyside]

Glad you're doing better with herbs!  Were the antibiotics worth it?
Have you found anything to help with the insomnia?

I am looking at trying some Cat's claw and Houyntunia.  I really misspelled that one, but I'm sure you know the one. Seems like not a high probability of success, but not going to do me a lot of damage if it fails...

[mojogal]

I also have a long term illness. I started with antibiotics that I did for 2 years before switching to a natural protocol. I am doing better with the herbs but have the horrible insomnia you spoke of.