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Low Dose Immunotherapy
Anyone heard of low dose immunotherapy for treating lyme and co-infections? Specialty Natural Medicine in WA state offers this treatment for lyme. A detailed description is on their website. It's supposed to divert your immune system away from the bacteria. The thinking is that your body's immune response to the bacteria is what is causing your symptoms and that it is fighting a losing battle. It's a new treatment they say it has great success. It's pretty much the opposite of how we have been fighting the disease. However, I'm leary of essentially turning off my immune system towards the bacteria. Anyone try this with success?
You say: "... you're too close-minded to explore this cutting edge treatment for chronic Lyme on a great site full of info/studies and successful results ..."
Calling me names does not prove your assertion that a YouTube "explain[s] this cutting edge treatment".
You also say, "Its [sic] not a new concept in that Dr. Shrader and others have been using LDA for allergies, and this similar concept is having great success in chronic Lyme patients." Waiting for proof.
"Too many success stories to dismiss this LDI approach." There is also some great swamp land ... errr, 'waterfront property' in Florida you should invest in. Saying you have too much proof does not ... prove your point.
You say, "Many of us with the Bb disseminated spirochetes have an inappropriate immune system response." Then you say that the very same immune system response is the problem, and Lyme disease has no part to play: "It's the inflammation that our immune system's inappropriate response has, that causes the damage, not the spirochetes themselves." Oh, like when the firemen drag you out of a burning building, it's the firemen's fault you got burned. Uh, no.
You say, "There are many people walking around with Bb spirochetes and are ASYMPTOMATIC, but those who do become symptomatic after the acute phase, have inappropriate responses to the spirochetes." So ... you are saying that because your immune system can at first keep an infection under control but then is overwhelmed by the infection, the immune system acted 'inappropriately'? No, the Lyme bacteria are doing what they were designed to do: make you ill.
Instead of your concept, have you considered that the Lyme bacteria are simply winning the battle against the patient's immune system ...? That is consistent with your next statement that "LDI [low-dose immunotherapy] re-establishes immune tolerance and allows Treg cells to 'tolerate' the spirochetes and co-infections. I personally think that long-term antibiotics are going to become a thing of the past for treating chronic Lyme."
Lyme bacteria can hide in cyst-like structures ('bio-films') in the human body, allowing the bacteria to evade the human immune system and to carry on making mischief. A human's test results for Lyme can readily come back as 'negative' because the human immune system does not perceive the presence of Lyme bacteria: if there are no bacteria, then there is no Lyme and there are no worries! ... Right?
Uh, no: Lyme bacteria have the ability to hide themselves in biofilms: slimy shields where the human immune system cannot find them. And what the immune system cannot 'see', it cannot report or kill. Therefore the standard Lyme tests (Western blot and ELISA) can come back as negative, while the patient (human, dog, cat, etc.) can have a true and accurate Lyme infection.
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Much of the current medical community still relies on the W.blot and ELISA tests, and the patient can have a serious case of Lyme disease, while the test result is ostensibly *negative*.
Your comments above include these:
-- "There are many people walking around with Bb spirochetes and are ASYMPTOMATIC,"
-- "but those who do become symptomatic after the acute phase, have inappropriate responses to the spirochetes." An 'inappropriate response'? Who do you go scold for acting so inappropriately? The patient? Maybe ... the patient is ill! Maybe the patient needs to be tested and treated properly! What a concept. There are plenty of people dragging around who feel lousy day in and day out, not knowing why they felt so lousy ... until they were finally tested for Lyme and its co-infections. I was one of those, and I know others who had the same illness and eventual testing and treatment. Lyme is not a psychological problem: it is a bacterial infection.
-- "LDI re-establishes immune tolerance and allows Treg cells to 'tolerate' the spirochetes and co-infections."
Would you react the same way if you had ... say, syphilis? Lyme and syphilis are in the same bacterial 'family'. The goal is to *kill* the bacteria, not to give them tea and cookies in the parlor. Read up on syphilitic dementia if you think this is no big idea. For a very long time in the 20th century and before, prisons held not only criminals, but also ill people who had syphilis, a bacterial infection. One my 'tolerate' the symptoms of syphilis for a while, but without proper diagnosis and treatment, there is only trouble, illness and death to come.
-- "I personally think that long-term antibiotics are going to become a thing of the past for treating chronic Lyme."
See above. And the one hour film, when I have the time to watch it, I'll get back to you.
===
You say, "LDI re-establishes immune tolerance and allows Treg cells to 'tolerate' the spirochetes and co-infections." Immune tolerance? So ... you go the rest of your life with Lyme disease, and take the serious risk of infecting your family and sexual partners with diseases in the syphilis family? Really??
You say: "Dr. Shrader and others have been using LDA for allergies, and this similar concept is having great success in chronic Lyme patients." Allergies and syphilis' cousin (Lyme) are not in the same class. Allergies won't give you dementia or death or infect your children or others in your intimate life.
===
You say, "There are many people walking around with Bb spirochetes and are ASYMPTOMATIC" -- Yes, and you can say the same about people walking around with syphilis, which is in the same bacterial family as Lyme.
You say, "... but those who do become symptomatic after the acute phase, have inappropriate responses to the spirochetes." Wait, wait, wait. 'Inappropriate' means licking your dinner plate at a fancy restaurant, not someone with a debilitating and potentially deadly disease. This is not a question of etiquette: it is a question of life and the quality of life, and sometimes it is also a question of death.
You say, "LDI re-establishes immune tolerance and allows Treg cells to 'tolerate' the spirochetes and co-infections. I personally think that long-term antibiotics are going to become a thing of the past for treating chronic Lyme." Good luck with all that. The aversion to medication for debilitating and potentially deadly illnesses could only be the response of those who have never watched a family member or a dear friend become demented and die from an illness that could have been treated and cured.
Calling me names does not prove your assertion that a YouTube "explain[s] this cutting edge treatment".
You also say, "Its [sic] not a new concept in that Dr. Shrader and others have been using LDA for allergies, and this similar concept is having great success in chronic Lyme patients." Waiting for proof.
"Too many success stories to dismiss this LDI approach." There is also some great swamp land ... errr, 'waterfront property' in Florida you should invest in. Saying you have too much proof does not ... prove your point.
You say, "Many of us with the Bb disseminated spirochetes have an inappropriate immune system response." Then you say that the very same immune system response is the problem, and Lyme disease has no part to play: "It's the inflammation that our immune system's inappropriate response has, that causes the damage, not the spirochetes themselves." Oh, like when the firemen drag you out of a burning building, it's the firemen's fault you got burned. Uh, no.
You say, "There are many people walking around with Bb spirochetes and are ASYMPTOMATIC, but those who do become symptomatic after the acute phase, have inappropriate responses to the spirochetes." So ... you are saying that because your immune system can at first keep an infection under control but then is overwhelmed by the infection, the immune system acted 'inappropriately'? No, the Lyme bacteria are doing what they were designed to do: make you ill.
Instead of your concept, have you considered that the Lyme bacteria are simply winning the battle against the patient's immune system ...? That is consistent with your next statement that "LDI [low-dose immunotherapy] re-establishes immune tolerance and allows Treg cells to 'tolerate' the spirochetes and co-infections. I personally think that long-term antibiotics are going to become a thing of the past for treating chronic Lyme."
Lyme bacteria can hide in cyst-like structures ('bio-films') in the human body, allowing the bacteria to evade the human immune system and to carry on making mischief. A human's test results for Lyme can readily come back as 'negative' because the human immune system does not perceive the presence of Lyme bacteria: if there are no bacteria, then there is no Lyme and there are no worries! ... Right?
Uh, no: Lyme bacteria have the ability to hide themselves in biofilms: slimy shields where the human immune system cannot find them. And what the immune system cannot 'see', it cannot report or kill. Therefore the standard Lyme tests (Western blot and ELISA) can come back as negative, while the patient (human, dog, cat, etc.) can have a true and accurate Lyme infection.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Much of the current medical community still relies on the W.blot and ELISA tests, and the patient can have a serious case of Lyme disease, while the test result is ostensibly *negative*.
Your comments above include these:
-- "There are many people walking around with Bb spirochetes and are ASYMPTOMATIC,"
-- "but those who do become symptomatic after the acute phase, have inappropriate responses to the spirochetes." An 'inappropriate response'? Who do you go scold for acting so inappropriately? The patient? Maybe ... the patient is ill! Maybe the patient needs to be tested and treated properly! What a concept. There are plenty of people dragging around who feel lousy day in and day out, not knowing why they felt so lousy ... until they were finally tested for Lyme and its co-infections. I was one of those, and I know others who had the same illness and eventual testing and treatment. Lyme is not a psychological problem: it is a bacterial infection.
-- "LDI re-establishes immune tolerance and allows Treg cells to 'tolerate' the spirochetes and co-infections."
Would you react the same way if you had ... say, syphilis? Lyme and syphilis are in the same bacterial 'family'. The goal is to *kill* the bacteria, not to give them tea and cookies in the parlor. Read up on syphilitic dementia if you think this is no big idea. For a very long time in the 20th century and before, prisons held not only criminals, but also ill people who had syphilis, a bacterial infection. One my 'tolerate' the symptoms of syphilis for a while, but without proper diagnosis and treatment, there is only trouble, illness and death to come.
-- "I personally think that long-term antibiotics are going to become a thing of the past for treating chronic Lyme."
See above. And the one hour film, when I have the time to watch it, I'll get back to you.
===
You say, "LDI re-establishes immune tolerance and allows Treg cells to 'tolerate' the spirochetes and co-infections." Immune tolerance? So ... you go the rest of your life with Lyme disease, and take the serious risk of infecting your family and sexual partners with diseases in the syphilis family? Really??
You say: "Dr. Shrader and others have been using LDA for allergies, and this similar concept is having great success in chronic Lyme patients." Allergies and syphilis' cousin (Lyme) are not in the same class. Allergies won't give you dementia or death or infect your children or others in your intimate life.
===
You say, "There are many people walking around with Bb spirochetes and are ASYMPTOMATIC" -- Yes, and you can say the same about people walking around with syphilis, which is in the same bacterial family as Lyme.
You say, "... but those who do become symptomatic after the acute phase, have inappropriate responses to the spirochetes." Wait, wait, wait. 'Inappropriate' means licking your dinner plate at a fancy restaurant, not someone with a debilitating and potentially deadly disease. This is not a question of etiquette: it is a question of life and the quality of life, and sometimes it is also a question of death.
You say, "LDI re-establishes immune tolerance and allows Treg cells to 'tolerate' the spirochetes and co-infections. I personally think that long-term antibiotics are going to become a thing of the past for treating chronic Lyme." Good luck with all that. The aversion to medication for debilitating and potentially deadly illnesses could only be the response of those who have never watched a family member or a dear friend become demented and die from an illness that could have been treated and cured.
Ok, if you're too close-minded to explore this cutting edge treatment for chronic Lyme on a great site full of info/studies and successful results, at least google and view Dr Ty Vincent's Youtube videos which explain this cutting edge treatment. Its not a new concept in that Dr. Shrader and others have been using LDA for allergies, and this similar concept is having great success in chronic Lyme patients. Similar concept is used in C-difficile with great success also.Too many success stories to dismiss this LDI approach. Many of us with the Bb disseminated spirochetes have an inappropriate immune system response. It's the inflammation that our immune system's inappropriate response has, that causes the damage, not the spirochetes themselves. There are many people walking around with Bb spirochetes and are ASYMPTOMATIC, but those who do become symptomatic after the acute phase, have inappropriate responses to the spirochetes. LDI re-establishes immune tolerance and allows Treg cells to "tolerate" the spirochetes and co-infections. I personally think that long-term antibiotics are going to become a thing of the past for treating chronic Lyme.
Another great video with further info and worth the 56 min. watch!
http://www.voiceamerica.com/episode/87271/low-dose-immunotherapy-a-new-healing-tool
Another great video with further info and worth the 56 min. watch!
http://www.voiceamerica.com/episode/87271/low-dose-immunotherapy-a-new-healing-tool
Further to the above, an article that I read today that alludes more to the inappropriate immune response that one has in the chronic phase of Lyme disease; the basis of LDI treatment:
"Or is the problem due to an abnormal immune response, triggering an autoimmune illness. One example is the development of meat allergies from certain tick bites."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2015/09/04/lyme-deaths-from-heart-inflammation-likely-worse-than-we-thought/
Anyway, LDI seems to be a brilliant approach esp for those who cannot take long-term antibiotics or have had no major improvement with long term herbals.
"Or is the problem due to an abnormal immune response, triggering an autoimmune illness. One example is the development of meat allergies from certain tick bites."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2015/09/04/lyme-deaths-from-heart-inflammation-likely-worse-than-we-thought/
Anyway, LDI seems to be a brilliant approach esp for those who cannot take long-term antibiotics or have had no major improvement with long term herbals.
Jackie, for further info and answers to all of your questions do join the LDI For Lyme Facebook group. Peruse through the Files section of the group, read the threads and comments and look at the long list of LLMDs and LLNDs treating with this. Further, many of us in Canada are being treated by LLNDs and LLMDs (going to US for this) whose names are not even on that list yet, to give you an idea of numbers......not that you really need to be challenging about it, though I know that's your nature. ;)
Where to begin.
"We shut off the immune inflammatory reaction, and symptoms go away." Uh, if you shut off your immune system activity, nothing will be killing the bacteria. It's like telling the soldiers guarding the castle to go home, and then the enemy will peaceably pack up and go home too.
It is always good to have a healthy immune system, but if the immune system is 'shut off', and if you're not treating with antibiotics, nothing will be killing the bacteria.
How do you prove the assertion that 'most LLMDs and LLNDs are starting to use [this approach]' due to the high percentage of success reached with it'? Define 'most' -- at least 50%, and maybe higher? Where is this conclusion published, with proof?
What is the mechanism that causes 'one's immune system' to 'start to respond'?
"We shut off the immune inflammatory reaction, and symptoms go away." Uh, if you shut off your immune system activity, nothing will be killing the bacteria. It's like telling the soldiers guarding the castle to go home, and then the enemy will peaceably pack up and go home too.
It is always good to have a healthy immune system, but if the immune system is 'shut off', and if you're not treating with antibiotics, nothing will be killing the bacteria.
How do you prove the assertion that 'most LLMDs and LLNDs are starting to use [this approach]' due to the high percentage of success reached with it'? Define 'most' -- at least 50%, and maybe higher? Where is this conclusion published, with proof?
What is the mechanism that causes 'one's immune system' to 'start to respond'?
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