"rough housing"

[smjmekg]

DH and I took Elijah to a place called Monkey Joe's yesterday. It's a building that has blow up slides and bouncers in it for kids up to 12, I think. Elijah (25 months old) got on a bouncer with a boy who's 20 months old. I was sitting at our table watching our things when I noticed DH and another guy laughing and watching the boys so I though "they must be doing something cute and funny" and went to check it out. When I got to the bouncer DH says "they're wrestling"...UM no, they're not. The other little boy would wait until Elijah was standing up and run at him and shove him or grab him and they'd fall, slamming heads into whatever and off the others' head. The little boy at one point was crying because Elijah's head hit his ear, and Elijah just laid there with this upset look on his face, DH and the other guy laughing still, the little boys mom got him out of the bouncer and was saying "oh he's ok", and let the little boy back in to bounce around and attack Elijah.

I told DH after the other little boy and his parents left that yeah, it was cute but not cute and funny at the same time. DH told me that Elijah needed to learn to be rough, and to be able to "defend himself". I told him I don't think he needs to because violence is not the way to go, and that if he gets in a confrontation when he's older that he needs to be able to be the bigger man and walk away. DH said "that doesn't work he needs to be able to fight". I told him I didn't agree. I told DH that teaching Elijah to be rough and wrestle could get him into trouble because he may walk up to a kid that can really kick his butt and think it's funny to try to wrestle him. I'm sure DH is looking at this like I'm being over protective, but he thinks Elijah will be a wuss because he doesn't want to fight. I don't think fighting is the answer...so what's your opinions ladies?

[smjmekg]

I'm not teaching him violence, or to be "tough" I was just curious what others' opinions were on whether or not a boy should be taught to be rough, and to defend himself when something confrontational occurs. I plan on telling Elijah to be the bigger man and walk away, not to fight, but DH's opinion differs from mine, he wants Elijah to kick b u t t, not to just walk away.

[mom2ariana]

i didn't read everything here but i agree with ashelen on the martial arts/karate. thats a great idea.
with that said i think that its okay to wrestle for fun, but wrestling with a random kid is not acceptable..IMO. i think the true "tough" men are the ones that can control themselves and their anger and back away from someone that is trying to get them to throw a punch.
if someone is just an a s s and came up and punched your son in the face and he had to defend himself, i think testosterone would kick in and he would be able to do so. boys aren't "taught" to fight nowadays in the norm and yet most can defend themselves to a degree. there will always be boys that will be bigger and be able to throw a harder punch and possibly beat up your son, but that doesn't mean you should teach him to fight them back.
also with all the video games and violent movies that psychologists suggest might influence serial killers, rapists, bullies, etc...WHY would you take a chance and teach your child violence is okay? just my two cents.

[CA25]

These days as boys gets older they don't fight anymore....they use GUNS...
I think your best bet is to teach him to walk away. Little boys are bringing guns to school when they feel they are threatned!!! the world has changed alot since I was little growing up. Back than it was bullying and  ge punched here and there but not anymore. kids are dying with gun fights!

[JoyRenee]

Honestly I don't see why boys need to be "taught" to fight. If your DH wants him to know how to defend himself them he should enroll him in Martial Arts because they teach discipline and when it is appropriate to use the skills they are taught.

Otherwise if a child is bullying your child you need to step in and remove your child from the situation, no matter their gender.

[Shayne1989]

I agree with what the other woman said, and if your looking for a martial art that is pretty much self defense only, see if they have Judo, i took it when i was younger and it was amazing. There are no offensive moves, and no there is no such thing as a Judo chop lol

[penswriter]

There is a difference between rough housing/wresting and fighting or defending oneself.

I am a mother of 2 2 year old boys and let me tell you...oh boy. lol. They rough house like CRAZY! They shove/push/hit/kick/ and knock each other down. Sometimes they laugh hysterically and other times they cry. Now with each other dh and I don't mind and they're usually REALLY good with other kids. If the other kids get aggressive than ours do as well. Now if dh made a comment that they needed to learn to fight or defend themselves I'd definitely put my foot down and say "No, not like that." But I know dh wouldn't say that. He'd probably teach them a few self defense moves himself. (He's a Marine and knows a few good things to take someone down without hurting them if they attack you. Which would be how I'd want my kids to defend themselves...obviously not at 2 years old though. lol)

Like Ashelen said I'd take them to karate (which also teaches to remain calm and not fight to solve issues but to use it as defense) or self defense.

Did you say anything to the other boys parents about their child basically attacking yours? Did you talk with DH about the rough housing/fighting comment?

[smjmekg]

LOL Ivy. You sound like that one hit a nerve! (NOT that it's funny on a personal level.)

BUT I agree with you 100% as well.

Kung Fu/Karate sound like a good idea actually...I don't know where there's a facility around here, but I'll definitely look into locations/prices. It's good to be able to defend, but only when needed.

[Ashelen]

If Josh wants Elijah to learn to defend himself, he can go sign him up for Karate or Kung Fu. Then he can learn to defend himself, but he also gets taught to use violence ONLY to defend himself and ONLY in a way that allows him to get away from the situation without inflicting excessive harm.

The situation in the bouncer was unacceptable and I would've been giving the other parents a peice of my mind, personally. Yeah kids are gonna rough and tumble and my daughter is a perfect example; she's about as tough as they come at 23 months, even though she's girly girl too...but she also knows that it's not acceptable to hurt people on purpose.

What's Josh going to do if the baby accidentally smacks Elijah some day when she's up and crawling and Elijah hits back? Is that O.K.? no, obviously not.

so yes, boys need to learn to defend themselves...most boys will get in a fight at some point in their life, and most girls if they're like me will as well (I got in a LOT of fights as a kid) and they should DEFINITELY know how to defend themselves...but there's a right way to learn this and a wrong way....martial arts are perfect for this. letting your son get bullied until he finally learns how to hit back? Come on, Josh, that's a big N.O.

so have josh research some classes around town..they do introduce martial arts basics to kids his age if you can find the right program. both of my kids will be doing kung fu.

and even though a kid who learns martial arts might not start a fight, you'd better believe every bully on the playground is going to be crying when that kid starts fighting back.

[ConnieG]

I don't think violence should be taught.....Boys will be boys...but 2 years old is a little young to be wrestling each other.  If dad, cousin, uncle etc wanted to wrestle that's a different story.  And I don't think he will be a wuss because you don't let him fight other little boys.  Plus, why do boys need to learn to fight anyway, our society is more evolved and we use our words instead of getting physical.....It sounded a lot more like bullying to me....But I don't have kids so I don't really have a working knowledge on how to raise little boys...so it's all just my uneducated opinion here. Good luck! :)

[smjmekg]

WifeofAnt~ I totally agree that wrestling is ok, but like you said only when all involved are having fun.

alaysha~I understand "boys are boys", but I don't think learning to beat up some other kid is part of being a boy.

LosingMyMindInGA~I agree 100%.

TO CLARIFY!!! I don't think my son shouldn't be a tough kid, he already is, he can get hurt pretty bad and not cry one bit. BUT my point to this, and I guess it wasn't clear in the beginning is I do NOT agree AT ALL that boys should be "taught to defend themselves" in a way where if some other child decides to try to start an actual fight with them that they fight back. I was taught growing up, as were my brother and sister, that if someone wanted to fight us we were to back away and had better not throw the first punch. We were told we would be in trouble for fighting because it was NOT acceptable, and I agree with it. There, IMO, is no need for fighting. Wrestling and playing with daddy and cousins is ok, but I don't think it's ok to just walk up to a random kid and wrestle with him/her.

Elijah had NO clue what this little kid was trying to do, and was just trying to "jumpy" I was very irritated with DH for not seeing this, because it could have been literally written all over Elijah's face. The first time the little boy was crying Elijah just laid on the bouncer and wouldn't get up, he may have been a littlehurt from hitting the other boys' head, but he didn't look happy, and looked confused as to why the other child was doing what he was doing. That's where I think it's wrong.

[LosingMyMindInGA]

Yes boys will be boys, but if it's obvious that one of them isn't reciprocating or is not enjoying it then it is nothing short of bullying.  

[alaysha]

I agree with wifeofant. I know that he's your little boy and you want to protect him but at the same time boys will be boys. Men are going to raise their children differently than women and I think that is how kids get to be so rounded. I think if he was upset I would have taken him out but at the same time I think its a guys mentality that boys need to learn to be tuff.

[LosingMyMindInGA]

I voted the own opinion thing and want to elaborate.  

I think to an EXTENT boys should be taught to be tough.  But I think it's something that can be done wrestling and playing with dad or siblings or cousins.  It's also something that can be taught with OUT physical altercation.

I do NOT think it was appropriate for the parent of this other child to allow him to bully your son the way he did, regardless of their ages.  Bullying is EXACTLY what that child was doing and if he continues to be allowed to get away with it he is going to wreak havoc in middle and high school.  Personally I would have waited a minute or so to see how my son would handle it but when it was clear that he was not apt to "wrestle" back or did not know how to handle the situation I would have stepped in and made my opinion PERFECTLY clear to the other parent.  At his age, Elijah isn't likely to understand the difference between defending himself and bullying so it's kind of pointless to have that conversation but he should be made to understand that what that other boy did was very naughty and that he is never to do something like that to someone else.  That if it were to happen again he should get up and get you or his dad.  As he gets older he can be taught when it's appropriate to defend himself and when it's appropriate to walk away.

[WifeofAnt]

Boys will usually be boys but unless both of them are having fun wrestling around it probably needs to stop.  My brothers and my nephews LOVED to wrestle.  Sometimes it looked painful but as long as they were all eager to continue then it was just a matter of making sure things didn't get broken in the process.