More research connecting gluten to thryoid disease

[TamraW]

This article is from Mary Shomon, thyroid patient advocate.

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/latestresearch/a/celiac.htm

Many of you know my antibody attacks quit after I quit gluten. Though I know the GF diet isn't for everyone, keep in mind that gluten be the source of your thyroid disease.

:) Tamra

[dpleiman]

It seems to me that everyone has made their point on this subject. The main idea i get from it is this:

Tamra: is testifying what has happened in her own personal experience "without scientific data to back it up" so that she would be misleading to make a blanket statement that this would work  for everyone"  (i didn't see her doing this but maybe i missed something somewhere) this is a very long thread.. but honestly it doesn't matter if she did or not which brings me to my next point..

Others: is stateing to not make a general statement that this particular thing will help "everyone" because there is no credible scientific evidence to back it up and unsuspecting "innocent" new thyroid sufferers may find false hope and self treat based on someone elses testimony..

2 points here:

1. Anybody who logs onto this website or any other website for that matter are subject to someone elses testomonies "in my opinion that's what this website is all about" we are at our wits ends with "Dr's and their "scientific evidence" limitations on treatment for our disease because to us it's substandard. I take no responsiblity for someone who blindly follows what has worked for me.. I would only be stateing my testimony and that it may or may not work for them "this is the only comments i've seen from Tamra"

2. I have the same frustrations from the same people who are frustrated with Tamra in highlighting the "scientific evidence" aspect of it.. the treatment based on FT3 "which there is another thread about it that i posted" Just about everyone on this board is promoting treatment based on FT3 but yet the "scientific evidence" is so controversial that i don't think anyone knows, or can make a blanket statement about it but they do, and when i come to this board for advise and concerns i get bombarded with "what is your FT3" this is CRUCIAL in treatment and we can't help you without it, but yet the same "credible" scientific data that exists treatment based on FT3 is the same scientific data that exists for Gluten free diet but the same people complaining about credible scientific data are the same people promoting treatment based on FT3 with no credible scientific data or at the very least the same.. (this in my opinion is the same thing)

the take away from this in my opinion is that there is no one size fits all.. We all know this, wether we agree on anything else we all at the very least agree on this.. i believe this topic has been beaten to death and that any unsuspecting new thyroid sufferer gets the point and everyone is responsible for themselves whether they read the latest hype or quick fix or anything else we find on the internet.. We are all ultimately responsible for ourselves and the things we read, or advice we follow..

I don't think Tamra was wrong in her posting information she has found to go along with her testimony, we can say the same thing about treatment by FT3 levels but yet a lot of people here advocate it and are of no help if you don't have it....

[Smilerdeb]

Just got back online after moving all the furniture last night to my new home to find this post STILL going.

I say things as I see it and it was ME Tamra who was slammed by your so-called Doctor because I did NOT agree with you or a so-called Quack promoting his website here.
It was NOT Barb.

I also do NOT agree that G/F is for EVERYONE and coming from a Doctor who is a Chiropractor who cannot substantiate his claims...and to me seems to be on another band-wagon to gain those lovely American Dollars to gullible, unwell people with his book that is full of absolute garbage ........he is doing what a lot of commercialised Doctors do.
Just as the one who is no longer registered because he did not comply with Medical Standards.

You accuse everyone of attacking you but what members are saying here is......you may well believe that G/F is good for you then GREAT.
But like religion ...do not ram it down peoples throats or get high and mighty and attacking because not everyone agrees with you.

Yes this posting is directed at you Tamra because maybe it is about time someone said it like it is ...instead of beating round the bush!
You are G/F...GREAT!

But dont expect me or everyone else to believe claims that cannot be substansiated with FACTS.

If a Doctor told a patient that their Cancer would go if they ate certain foods...would YOU believe it?

Get your facts, provide them here and then MAYBE members could believe in something CONCRETE.

If I have upset you (which I think I have this time) then I sincerely apologise but up until now..NO-ONE has attacked you.
You are the one who is attacking ...all because CONCRETE FACTS have been asked for.
Facts that cannot be substansiated or proven.

This Doctor Datis Karrazzian is nothing but another 'quack' in my eyes and if that upsets you then I am sorry but I refuse to be badgered and attacked for NOT believeing in this Doctor.

And that is MY opinion.
No-one elses but MINE.

We all want facts from this Doctors studies, tests, etc and none have been forthcoming.
If his practise is doing you good and you are well...then as I said earlier ..GREAT .

But dont expect people to believe in everything that is posted if no back up is there.
And do not attack members for something I posted.
I think you owe Barb an apology.

If I have upset other members by this posting, I sincerely apologise but I refuse to be badgered to believe in something that I clearly DO NOT believe in.

As I said in an earlier posting...I agree to disagree and that is my right.

This posting will probably be deleted but like you Tamra , I strongly believe it needed to be said.

[goolarra]

No one is “slamming” you for your gluten-free success.  Actually, this is NOT the way I see it (quoting Tamra’s last post):

“The way you see it is that I am pointing newer members toward a drastic lifestyle change for no reason. So at what point do we need a reason to eat and live healthy?”

The way I see it is that you have repeatedly implied that 1) there is a cause/effect relationship between Hashi’s and gluten, and 2) that a g/f diet can “treat” thyroid auto-antibodies.  Furtherrmore, because you have repeated both of these so often, newer members are beginning to take them for granted and to discuss them as though they were accepted scientific fact and medical practice.  (See my quote above from a related thread.)

I am asking you either to provide proof of 1 and 2 above or to agree to stop posting these ideas so ubiquitously.

Since we’re being blunt, here’s what I’d like to see:

1)  studies proving that gluten is the cause of Hashi’s,
2)  studies proving that, once you have Hashi’s, a g/f diet will send thyroid antibodies into         remission,
3) studies proving that K’s methods actually TREAT autoimmune THYROID disease,
4) your response to members’ questions regarding the holes we’ve found in K’s theory.

It seems to me that we are not asking you for much.  To the extent that you have been touting the gluten/thyroid antibody link, 1 through 3 ought to be at your fingertips.  #4 might require a bit more dialogue.  This is not Facebook, Twitter, or a personal blog…our standards of proof must be higher.  My feeling is that your comments would be much more appropriate on a celiac/gluten intolerance or nutrition forum than they are on a thyroid forum, since no CAUSAL or CURATIVE relationship has been established between gluten and autoimmune thyroid disease.

Playing the “persecution” card, citing op/ed pieces like the Mary Shomon article referenced at the beginning of this thread and soliciting further testimonials like Stacy’s is simply a diversionary tactic to avoid the task at hand.  You are dismissing our concerns and accusing us of bullying to avoid answering our questions.

Alternative to 1 to 4 above, and so that we can all get back to the business at hand of informing each other of FACTS regarding THYROID disorders, you might consider agreeing to a moratorium on the widespread recommendation of g/f diets for THYROID patients and the recommendation of THE book (including the “read my journal” references to both of these).  Unfortunately, we have all been trying to be “nice” and have given you a free rein with your theories.  I believe the quality of the forum is now being compromised by the extent to which g/f has been recommended for thyroid patients with no science to back it up.

I think a g/.f diet can still be suggested on a very individual basis and with the many caveats we have all mentioned in the many posts above.  However, I also think it’s time to give it a rest considering it’s recent overexposure so that this forum stops looking more like a celiac forum than a thyroid forum.  This needs to be brought back to an appropriate perspective.

[Barb135]

Sorry I was hard at work a few hours ago -- I do hope you had a wonderful time with your little one, swimming and soaking up the vitamin D;  unfortunately, some of us don't have the luxury of spending the day swimming OR soaking up the vitamin D no matter how much time we spend in the sun.......

I'd venture to say that my 10 hr work day kept me in the sun much longer than the time you spent swimming and having fun -- unfortunately, spending time in the sun, doesn't help me much and I still have to supplement.  

That said, I'll thank you to get your facts straight......... *I* was not the one who made the comment you attributed to me - "Not inviting "so called Doctors" here on the site to abuse members that do not agree with that form of treatment.
Because that is what I got by not agreeing to a certain posting a while back."  I remember that incident well;  I wasn't the one attacked at that time; if I had been I would have said the same thing.

The hostility seems to be coming more from you, than any of the rest of us; we had a discussion that you chose to stay out of for nearly 10 days, then all of a sudden you come back in and attack me.......

You are attributing hostility to me, that I didn't portray in the beginning; however, you are doing a good job of bringing it out.  No, I didn't go g/f and most likely I won't ever because my doctor told me not to.......  

You said: "And, no, I do not eliminate grains. For Barb to assume that is grossly misleading to the rest of the members on this forum. I still eat non-glutenous grains. I believe that Hashimoto's is an auto-immune disease that requires more management than than just popping pills. If it were so easy!"  

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I have made no "assumptions" in regards to your diet --- I don't really know what your diet is, except that you have made it perfectly clear that you don't eat gluten and your "doctor" says that anyone with Hashi's should not eat it.  Sorry, my doctor says I should not eliminate it -- I'll trust my doctor over yours any day.......

You are absolutely right that Hashi's is autoimmune; no one is arguing that point, nor are we saying that  "popping pills" is the only way to go...... there are things that we can do to help ease our symptoms; the point here is that it's not a "one size fits all"...........telling people that if they go g/f, they can reduce or get off thyroid med is so very misleading....

In addition to that, I highly resent your implication that I don't "bypass the funnel cake stand and enjoy good health".

Do you have the audacity to think that just because I don't give up gluten, I spend my time at the funnel cake stand?  Truth to tell, I haven't even had the time to SEE a funnel cake stand in a good many years, let alone indulge............ besides - *I* don't eat sugar.........

Yes, we do have an obligation to new members --- ALL of us, whether or not, we are "five star generals" need to be careful and when someone touts the same message day in and day out, people who are not necessarily informed, tend to think that message is right.........when it's not.

I think it's been shown that g/f is NOT right for everyone.  We all have to read the posts and respond according to what the individual is asking or needs -- not everyone needs to hear about g/f, reading your journal, or taking certain vitamins/minerals, etc...........

You said:  "So at what point do we need a reason to eat and live healthy? I've reached my breaking point with this disease. I refuse to throw up my hands and let the pharmacies take care of me."

No one has ever disputed a "need a reason to eat and live healthy" ...... we all should eat and live healthy.  Our point has been that "healthy" for YOU, may not be "healthy" for ME; therefore, when you post that ALL Hashi's MUST go g/f -- our antennae go up immediately.  

The message for newbies should be that we are all different and that some things work for some people, but not for everyone...........anyone who makes an "across the board" statement, such as "ALL Hashi's must avoid gluten" should be discounted..... it all needs to be presented on an individual basis, as in "this worked for me, but doesn't work for everyone"...........how simple can it get??

No persecution intended.............

[TamraW]

Barb's quote: "Not inviting "so called Doctors" here on the site to abuse members that do not agree with that form of treatment.
Because that is what I got by not agreeing to a certain posting a while back."

I did not invite him, and yes, he is a doctor. I asked this doctor if I could repost one of his transcripts on this forum. He agreed as long as I provided him with the link. I did not know he was going to come to this forum and post. He is not my doctor, but he does treat some of my friends, including Stacy from this forum, who has had great results.

There is a hostility on this forum by certain members when I share my gluten-free success. I am slammed for my unconventional and 'drastic' dietary plan. Not only have I seen significant health improvements in eliminating gluten, but by avoiding cow milk, soy, corn and processed/fried foods as well. My diet consists of a lot of  lean meats, fresh fruits and veggies. Also, I lift weights ad do light cardio (so as not to overstress the adrenals). My approach would be considered more  holistic or crazy to some. I see it as common sense.

And, no, I do not eliminate grains. For Barb to assume that is grossly misleading to the rest of the members on this forum. I still eat non-glutenous grains. I believe that Hashimoto's is an auto-immune disease that requires more management than than just popping pills. If it were so easy!

And because I decide to bypass the funnel cake stand and enjoy good health, I do feel I'm persecuted on this site. Sorry for being so blunt, but I've dished in more of my share of rude/blunt comments here.

Some of the five star generals consistently remind me of an obligation to newer forum members. The way you see it is that I am pointing newer members toward a drastic lifestyle change for no reason. So at what point do we need a reason to eat and live healthy? I've reached my breaking point with this disease. I refuse to throw up my hands and let the pharmacies take care of me.

Well, off to spend the day swimming and soaking up vitamin D with my little one.

:) Tamra

[ggma1000]

I learn a great deal on forums, this one included...thank you.

There have been a few assumptions stated in this thread which should be corrected. First of all, I am not advocating eliminating any healthy food, including gluten, if one doesn't need to. With that stated, a g/f diet does not have to be grain/free, nor devoid of fiber. A number of cultures use rice or corn, not wheat, as a staple. Amaranth, arrowroot, coconut flour (which is low carb with 61% fiber), millet, quinoa, and tapioca are a few others. By the way, any wheat raises my diabetic & hypothyroid husband's blood sugar, but he eats it anyway, but not often at home anymore because he keeps his a1c down (from 13+ to under 7) just with diet & exercise.

Another assumption, which may have some truth to it, but is completely contrary to standard food allergy (elimination) testing, "You do make yourself intolerant to foods when you remove them from your diet." Several of our doctors over the years have recommended the opposite...that is removing the offending food(s) for several years, then reintroducing, which has worked well in our family.

As it has been stated many times on this thread, having any autoimmune disease makes one more vulnerable to other sensitivities. Hashimoto's can be like that for some people. His thyroid crashed over 50 years ago after a serious case of mono. Mine, much more recent but complicated with Lupus and Lymes. My husband and I both can tolerate very few meds any more. However, we do not try to reintroduce any drug for which we have had a bad reaction to.

So, in spite of being being fairly universally vulnerable, we each need to find what works best for us as an individual.  Peace, ggma1000