Addict or Patient????

[Wildewoman]

I had a very strange encounter this morning. I was walking the girls in the hood & I ran into my neighbor - a doctor. I told her what was going on - that I had stopped taking the Norco & was on day # 11.

She knows all about my back injury - was very helpful 2 years ago & is a great neighbor/friend.

She asked WHY had I stopped taking my meds?? I told her about the mix up in the system - not getting my next dose on time & how I had freaked out. How when I tried to quit - I got very sick, etc.

She asked if the pain came back. I told yes it had - and it was as screaming as it had been 2 years ago.

FYI - 2 years ago my doctor wanted me to stop working - take several months off for my back to heal. I talked to my boss (who is amazing) and we agreed that I would work from home (in a recliner) and work only up to 4 hours a day - when I went in. I was on Percocet then (I hate those - they make me nauseated) then I went on Noroc.

My neighbor said that on the Norco my quality of life had improved - I was back to working my usual 10-12 hour days, we were traveling, biking, life was good.

I came away feeling very confused.

So what am I - an addict or a patient???

[Wildewoman]

Thank you both. As always - this group has such good insight & information.

I appreciate all the responces. I'm off to Google "addictive personality"!!

[ariley13]

I agree 100% with Ricart. I never ran out of my pills early, or took more than I was supposed to. I did like them a little too much and knew where it was going. I am an alcoholic and I saw that old familiar pattern emerging. Just because you weren't abusing the pills, doesn't mean that you don't have an addictive personality. Just think on it and talk to your counselor about it. Keep up all of the hard work and protect that hard won clean time.

[ricart70]

Glad the acupuncture went so well !!   On the addiction thing I would say the main thing is if you take the dose and you feel a burst of energy 20-30 min after taking them and you like that feeling of energy and well being and you think about that feeling and take the pills when you are not actually in physical pain then you are an addict or will be one soon.   If you forget to take your dose because you are not in pain at that moment and you don't count pills or feel that burst of energy following the dose then you probably are not an addict. If you like the pills for any other reason than that they relieve your pain you are probably an addict .      You are doing great !  ;))

[Wildewoman]

The accupuncture went really well. Very relaxing.

I am pondering everything you have said.

I actually don't have any cravings for the Norco. & we have other narcotics in the house - and I don't feel a need to take them

We see our therapist next week & I plan on bringing this up.

Too bad there isn't a litmus test for this. :-)

[nursegirl6572]

I think at this point it doesn't matter - the Norco's made me sick & script or not - I don't plan on taking them any longer.


I don't agree.  There is one very important aspect of treating addiction that isn't necessary if someone is just dependent on an opiate, and that's aftercare.  You have to treat the mindset and the cravings, educate oneself about stages of relapse and things to do to prevent it.

Coming off the med involves w/ds and detox either way, yes, but there is a lot more "work" that goes into managing an addiction.  Someone who is not addicted and only dependent can basically walk away after w/ds, never giving it another thought.  Addicts can't do that...not without risking their sobriety.

Something to think about.  I think it IS a very important question to answer (yourself).  I don't think it's that hard to come to an answer.  Most people who are addicts know they are, even if they struggle to admit it to themselves.

Hang in there...anxious to hear about the accupuncture!  :0)

[Wildewoman]

Thanks!!

I think at this point it doesn't matter - the Norco's made me sick & script or not - I don't plan on taking them any longer.

[ActingBrandNew]

I haven't read all your posts so Ill admit I dont know all that you have presented to everybody else in other threads. Ive actually only read this one and the other that I responded to and gave my opinion.

Im not going to give any redundant information. All Im going to say is that regardless what anybody thinks or tells you...you posted this in an addiction forum. Most people here are addicts and are going to addict related advice. Likewise...if you posted this in the "pain management" forum you would probably get advice geared towards that.

Maybe you were in withdrawals and and were looking for a place that could help and gave pointers on how to deal with them. What better place than an addiction forum right? OR...maybe, subconsciously you know your an addict and its why you posted here. Only you can figure that stuff out.

Regardless of whatever you think or decide, we are here and will always supports you. I wish you the best in whatever decision you come to.

[Wildewoman]

I guess that is where I get confused. My life was not unmanagable. I work FT (up to 60 hours a week) - and I have been promoted twice in the last 2 years. I have never missed a day due to the Norco. The back pain yes -

Looking back - if my script had been filled when I requested it - I don't think I would have decided to stop. It was filled the next day

I think it's good that I did stop the Norco however. 2 years is a very long time - and I was reading my chart last night - that waaaaay back in 2011 - I had told my doctor that I thought I should stop - as I was anxious - I got a script for Xanax. Go figure . . . . .

[dominosarah]

I think you know the answer, now you just have to face it.  Your brain is in overdrive right now and you are spending more time trying to justify using or not more than anything.  Once you figure this out there will be peaceful moments and clarity in your thinking and you will be able to determine your next move.

[Clarityrocks]

I started out as a patient, and was for years, but I am definitely a big old addict. If I ever start to question this fact, luckily I can come here and I remember all the reasons this is true. NG's comment was right on the nose for me, I had almost all those behaviors and thoughts... I was a total mess, and my health was awful. I also thought I had fibromyalgia, and weird, I am ok now. I had hideous pain when I first got clean (I have had a fusion surgery, degenerative disc, etc), but now, it really is manageable with Advil. It hurts, yes, but nowhere near enough for me to take the chance of returning to the prison that my life became. I no longer have high blood pressure, which I believe was from stressing about pills, lying, etc. I was so depressed when I was using, and I couldn't figure out why (it is so clear now! Lol) and now I am so grateful for every single day. We are the only ones who can decide if we are truly an addict, though I know many people who just don't know it yet, and it is so clear to me that I want to shake them. But I don't, I will just be there when/if they ask for help. I can't force anyone into recovery, it just hardly ever works. I wish you the best, and if you can manage without the meds, I would try. It only gets worse the longer you are on them.
Allison

[VICourageous]

I think they all said it to the point. I do like what NG said. Like for me I have used off and one (not pills) but other things like drinking and some street drugs. I could always walk away and thought nothing of addiction. I was put on the hydo/oxys back in the 90s and then I got turned on to a Methadone..Well I talked my way into getting it for pain..Before I knew it 12-16 years later I was adding other drugs to it and I was not in pain but was using it to live day to day to get all my works done like yesterday..The Big Wired up Buzz. This is when I knew I was so out of control and I was going to die if I did not stop..I did c/t from 3 meds at once at the age 56 and it was no walk in the park. I really think people need to be more educated about what these substances do to all the brain Transmitter and such and how they destroy body parts as well. I can say would of or could of, but it is done and I almost have a year and it has moved like a turtle to get to feeling OK. Also I felt like I had Fibro when I was using and some lower back pain but it all went away when I stopped using..It took awhile but it did..Just give this time and I bet your pain can be addressed with some exercise and swimming and such..Your Mind will love you for it..
Bless

[Wildewoman]

Thank you. I will.

[gnarly_1]

HI well most of us know that we are addicts or just depended on pills both will be hard to get off of but the addict takes them for pleasure or for emotional crutch not just for pain just know there is a fine line between them also you life is usually unmanageable if your an addict only you can decide if your a addict..just know the pills are only a symptom of the disease it is a defect of the mind and the very way we think that you ned help with  you may try a N/A meeting out it will help you decide if you need more help I think every one on this site should go to N/A a few times to see what is up with your life addiction is treatable and the 12 steps work.... Gnarly  

[nursegirl6572]

Dependency is something that happens to anyone taking an opioid regularly, for more than a short time.  Dependency involves w/d when the med is discontinued abruptly and tolerance, which is when you need a higher and higher dose after time to reach the same level of effectiveness.

Addiction involves a more complex mental aspect, and behaviors.  Signs of addiction would include a very frequent preoccupation with the med, including worrying about how many one has, when the next refill (or supply) becomes available, counting pills, mental cravings, taking the medication for reasons other than why it's prescribed (ie, "I had a bad day, I'll take a pain pill", or "They give me so much energy, I'll take one before my spring cleaning"), taking more than Rx'ed, running out early, labile moods, including heightened anxiety if one's supply is running low.  It also involves people doing things out of character for themselves to obtain the medication, and continuing to use/abuse the substance knowing there are negative consequences, yet disregarding those.  Like someone beinbg Rx'ed 2 pills every 4 hours as needed taking 5 or 6 pills every 2 hours, knowing that not only will they run out early and leave themselves in a bad position, but also, ignoring the possible health risks that come with abusing the med.

Like everyone else said, only YOU can answer this for yourself, but I'll be totally honest with you.  It wasn't until the other day, when you were fighting the "want/need" to take a pill where you started sort of shifting gears and presenting the info as if you were only dependent.  Before that, in ALL of your posts and threads, you never once ever corrected any of us, or clarified that you didn't think you were an addict, and I think that's pretty telling.  It may shed some light on this for you if you go back and reread through your posts.

My 100% honest opinion is that you DO display signs of addiction and this newest pondering is your head trying to convince you that it's okay to start taking them again.

You need to do some soul searching and figure this out.  If you're indeed only dependent, not addicted, you will travel a different road in many respects than someone who is fighting addiction.

[ricart70]

Yes and us addicts love to ponder things  .  I have pondered my way into some pretty bad situations .   Please read about opiod induced hyperalgesia.
  Often doctors do not understand addiction. They understand symptoms and treatment. That is what they do usually.They treat a symptom with a med.Many of them are also very offended when a patient does not take a med that was prescribed to them for their condition. I have seen some get quite angry because of this. They do not understand addiction and in most cases they only know what information you choose to offer them

[Wildewoman]

Thanks all for the replies.

So much to ponder - huh??

[jethro733]

Its a hard bullet to bite.  I feel like my immediate quality of life is improved by using pain meds, but to be honest I'd have to add that it is a short term type thing.  Long term they will destroy you is my experience.  

I went snow boarding a couple of weeks ago and I just had no choice but to take some pain meds if I wanted to get on the mountain...  I wasn't happy to be doing it, and I had a mild come down to deal with afterwards.

Moral of the story, every day use and you'll become addicted/dependant again.  Using again for a day or so, it can be incredibly difficult when you have to say goodbye to an old stomping partner.  I'd advise that that in the context of your original post, no it will not increase your quality of life.  Your neighbour is only seeing the surface of who you are and not what's underneath.  I'd tend to suggest that under the skin you likely have more QoL than you did on pain meds...

[BarbRTR]

This absolutely is something only you can answer. I have read a lot of your posts, but can't remember. Did you always take them as prescribed? Did you forget to take them until the pain reminded you? If so, you might be dependent only. On rare occasions, taking more is a sign of the med not controlling the pain, but usually it's addiction.

I have noticed in your posts of late, it seems your mind is trying to talk you into using. You know you can do this, so why don't you tell yourself you want to re evaluate the pain level after 60 days of being clean? I didn't believe that opiates caused more pain at first. But in my case, and it seems many other's, it did. Pain on meds was an 8, during first 6 weeks off, a 10. Now, everyday pain is maybe a 4. I still have bouts with higher pain time, but overall, it's better off meds. My back and neck MRI is so very messed up. But stretches taught by my therapist, steroid injections, etc make a difference. Just not immediate as with the pills. Also, at first, the pills did work, and because I'd that, I did things I shouldn't, and hurt it worse.

Some people do need pain management. But it's hard to know if you're one during the first month of detox, when the pain is so magnified.

Hope you find the answers you're looking for! Good luck to you. You have done great so far. Be proud of yourself!

[Ben727]

This question gets asked and debated all the time. There's no doubt you were "chemically dependent" on them, everyone who takes them everyday is. Is "dependent" the same as "addicted"? I would say yes, at a high level they are synonymous. I think if we get into the semantics, a person crosses from being a dependent patient to being an addict based on their behaviors. For me, the line was between taking what I needed to take versus taking what I wanted to take. Taking 5 when 2 would have managed the pain, and so on. I don't think there's any correct answer to this, it's a personal distinction at the end of the day.

[Teri9498]

I so agree w/ariley about the more time u put between u & the opiates, the better the pain will get!!  When I was on methadone, & even other opiates, my back would hurt & my muscles would be soooooo tight all the time, once I got off, I couldn't believe the difference!!  My back felt much better & my muscles felt so much loosened up, not rock hard like they were on opiates!..I know I'm not really answering your question, just when I read what ariley said, it made me start thinking about how much better my whole body felt pain wise...I could even run 10miles straight...now I try that, cuz I'm back on opiates, trying to taper off, & I'm soooooo weak & outta breathe!!...I say u have come soooooo far, give it time & see where u are pain wise...best of luck sweetie! XXOO.....

[ariley13]

I agree that you are the only person who can say whether you are dependent or addicted. It's a very fine line sometimes. I was on Norco for legitimate pain, and I never abused them, or took them any way other than prescribed. I could feel it was headed that way and that's why I decided to stop. I've had issues with alcoholism in the past and know that I would have spiraled fast. As far as the pain goes, it does get better with time. I have severe back issues as well as stomach and female issues. The more time you can put between you and the opiates, the better the pain will get.

[Bubbleguppie100]

I've asked the same, exact question as you. I'll put it like this for me- when I broke my back 8 yrs ago, doctors put me on Vicodin. I didn't even know what those were at the time. I only popped one Vic when my back was killing me. I want to say 3 years later, I started using heavily with my Vicodin. I would pop a couple at a time. It was like a schedule for me. Wake up, take two pain pills, afternoon, take a pain pill, late afternoon, another pill. Get home from work, take a pill. Before sleep take 2 pills. I was switched onto Norco a few years ago, same schedule. I realized that I'm taking pills when I don't need that at the time. I was medicating myself. I also realized that I would freak the "F" out when my prescription wasn't ready!!!! Seriously! I would call the pharmacy and they would tell me it's too early or doctor hasn't approved it yet. I would get so pissed!! So, I started looking around... Found someone who sold the right stuff. Bought pills off of him a few times. Or I have family members that had pills pain patches. I would lie to them. Saying my back was killing me. I was the withdrawals. My family members would " hook it up for me" so, where I'm getting at?? Is, at first, when I broke my back (the first year) I was the patient. 7 years later, I became the addict.

[Butterfly1503]

Only you can decide that. However, some of your post ( no offense) point to  addiction. You even said, you would run out sooner than you should and correct me if I'm wrong you counted. Needless to say.. You have to make that decision, and are you trying to convince yourself? I just want what's best for you, and you've come to far to turn back now (hugs)