Aa
Can anyone help me?
I have a condition called Intracranial Hypertension. It is where I have up to 3 to 4 times the amount of fluid in my skull and spine that a normal person has. Hand in hand with this condition is another, that causes my brain stem to be pushed down and out the back of my skull, into the opening of the top of my spine.
As you can imagine this causes a host of excruciatingly painful symptoms throughout my body, and beside massage, (which is even a touchy situation) I don't have much alternative for pain relief other than medication.
My dilemma : I've been on the "non-narcotic, non-addictive" tramadol for the past nine months. Unfamiliar with the withdrawal signs and symptoms, I just recently realized that I may be physically addicted. I just attributed the 2 weeks of extra pain and depression to my existing conditions.
I have been freely taking a bottle of 90-(50mg) tabs within a 2 week time span; Then 2 weeks off cold turkey.
HOW DO I GET OFF, AND WHAT MEDICINE WORKS FOR THIS TYPE OF PAIN RELIEF??
If anyone has any helpful sites, lemme know, because I'm a new member and I'm not really getting how to navigate this forum yet.
Thank You, in advance, Pari!!!
As you can imagine this causes a host of excruciatingly painful symptoms throughout my body, and beside massage, (which is even a touchy situation) I don't have much alternative for pain relief other than medication.
My dilemma : I've been on the "non-narcotic, non-addictive" tramadol for the past nine months. Unfamiliar with the withdrawal signs and symptoms, I just recently realized that I may be physically addicted. I just attributed the 2 weeks of extra pain and depression to my existing conditions.
I have been freely taking a bottle of 90-(50mg) tabs within a 2 week time span; Then 2 weeks off cold turkey.
HOW DO I GET OFF, AND WHAT MEDICINE WORKS FOR THIS TYPE OF PAIN RELIEF??
If anyone has any helpful sites, lemme know, because I'm a new member and I'm not really getting how to navigate this forum yet.
Thank You, in advance, Pari!!!
Avis is awesome......I'm in agreement with you on that one. She is a great support to everyone!!
I am very proud of you too because Honesty about your problem is the first step to getting a hold of your life again!!
I'm signing off but look forward to chatting with you more..hopefully tomorrow.
Stay strong.
Greebs
I am very proud of you too because Honesty about your problem is the first step to getting a hold of your life again!!
I'm signing off but look forward to chatting with you more..hopefully tomorrow.
Stay strong.
Greebs
That is a lot of good advice! Since I am in bed all of the time, (and I mean, 1-maybe 2 days a month I feel good enough to get out- but pay for it later) I watched a bunch of "intervention" shows and wondered if I could go without the pills for a long period of time. I ended up not taking any for around, 3 weeks-when the pressure built up and there was no position I could get into that would relieve the acute pain. I took 2 pills per day for a week added to excedrine migraine and it would take the edge off of the head and neck aches.
I hate to admit that I had too much free time and convieniently forgot the t.v. show and conciously decided to do it for recreation...after all...I had 'proven' to myself that I wasn't hooked...right?
well, I know I can quit right now, cold turkey, but I am too ignorant on the physical repercussions to go on and off 'willy nilly'. I tried to look stuff up, but it was so vague and general that I didn't feel like any of it was directed to my case.
that's where this forum comes in. And you and Greebo! I've already gotten info to mull over and refer to, and met 2, seemingly knowledgeable people in the process!
Thanks for delving into my pool and trying to help me out!
I appreciate it tons and tons! -Pari
I hate to admit that I had too much free time and convieniently forgot the t.v. show and conciously decided to do it for recreation...after all...I had 'proven' to myself that I wasn't hooked...right?
well, I know I can quit right now, cold turkey, but I am too ignorant on the physical repercussions to go on and off 'willy nilly'. I tried to look stuff up, but it was so vague and general that I didn't feel like any of it was directed to my case.
that's where this forum comes in. And you and Greebo! I've already gotten info to mull over and refer to, and met 2, seemingly knowledgeable people in the process!
Thanks for delving into my pool and trying to help me out!
I appreciate it tons and tons! -Pari
try cutting down ...I really think you are going to need to take something are you taking more then 8 a day ? is there someone that can hold the meds for you and give them to you
What you are probably doing is making the problem worse by going 2 wks on/2 wks off. Here is why:
You are physically addicted. When you are in WD's one come symptom is HEIGHTENED pain. So, I think you are making yourself suffer needlessly.
Here is what I suggest.
go CT for a month. After that-reevaluate your level of pain. A great amount of the time, once you are free of the WD's and all the BS that goes with it....people find their actual pain is a lot less.
If this scares you to much, then taper down to the LOWEST level you need.
Here is something to read on addiction and tapering (opiates...but you will get the drift).
I have to sign off in an hour. Try to read this and let me know what you would like to do.
I vote you STOP the 2 on/2 off regime and taper down to a low level or to no pills. Whatever is tolerable.
Time for some technical talk... One of the things which increases "dependence" is a spike in drug blood plasma levels. Addicts do this on purpose to get a "high". They do it by Snorting (Very fast delivery), IV Injections, Chewing up meds and taking on an empty stomach.
The above all produce the most amount of drug in the blood in an attempt to get a buzz. These spikes are one of the reasons we addicts get hooked faster than a COMPLIANT Chronic Pain Patient.
Being compliant means they take only as directed. The goal of compliance is to maintain an even blood plasma at the minimum amount to treat PAIN and NOT to produce euphoria (a high).
Since the blood plasma levels are lower, the levels of dopamine at the synaptic cleft do not spike so the receptor sites do not downregulate or decrease in number in response to the initially MUCH higher level of dopamine released as a result of spiking.
Addictive dosing behaviors, the large doses associated to Spike the blood plasma level, vs the lower low dosing and more often which is the KEY factor to the physical changes the brain makes which cause dependency.
Dependency is the actual physical changes to your body which cause withdrawal. Addiction is the BEHAVIOR of taking the drugs to get high, not as prescribed, and when not needed for clinical reasons. It is the un-manageable behaviors associated with lack of control.
Which comes first... Dependence or addiction? Usually it's addiction, but it can be the other way, but the key issue which causes the progression of addiction are the behaviors.
Addiction is what makes you take more and more, spiking doses, etc. This in turn increases dependence. The higher your dependence the higher the tollerance... Round and round you go. The addiction merry-go-round.
How to break the cycle? The only way is to change the behavior. That is a very difficult thing. Pain is usually a very good motivator. So is Euphoria. When the pain out weighs the euphoria one starts to consider breaking the cycle. Unfortunately the pain being eliminated by the drug is a driving force. Then the addict associated the RELIEF of th pain to the drug instead of the drug being the CAUSE of the pain.
SOoooooooo what to do? Break the cycle.
Many have to hit bottom to do that. That's the point where the pain of using overwhelms the relief of using. It's an emotional point which is different for different people. Not every one has to hit a bottom to quit. The sooner you quit the less pain and suffering you have to experience.
For folks who are on smaller doses and their disease has not progressed very far, they have not felt the extent of pain addiction can cause. Only conceptualizing how bad it can get may not be good enough to motivate a person early in addiction to quit.
Intellectually we know what lays ahead. We hear the truth from others, but yet we continue to use. It is not until we get a glimpse of the pain that lays ahead do we become to believe we need to quit. One HAS to believe that in fact addiction does lead to the loss of everything and eventually Jails Institutions and Death.
Addiction is a lot easier to nip in the bud physically but maybe not emotionally because one has not experienced the pain first hand. Some need more pain than others to quit. Some don't make it and end up end stage and their addiction wins.
If you want to get off of the pills you have to change your behavior.
1) STOP SNORTING your pills!
2) Stop spiking your dose!
3) stop taking enough to get high
You will never quit until you do that. Weather you can or not is up to you.
You have to come to a point where you make the decision you want to quit. The en you have to make a plan then you have to execute that plan. SIMPLE .... but not easy.
The solution from a clinical point of view for you at your point of addiction is so easy. A simple taper, and change the behavior. In short break the cycle.
How to do a taper is easy. Changing the behavior is the HARD part, but you have to want to change.
If you are taking 6 pills a day... then start taking them in even doses and don't take like 3-4 at a time. 24 hrs divided by 6 = 4 hrs. So only take one pill every 4 hrs. Then take 5 pills in 24 hrs. That's 4.8 hrs. Then 4 pills a day... break pills into 1/2's so you have 8 1/2 pills. and take 1/2 a pill every 3 hrs. Etc.
If you can't stick to a taper give the pills to a friend to dispense.
Mean while .. you have to start changing the way you think and the things you do... You should educate yourself... Good place to do all of that is NA or AA. It's FREE and takes up time. It forces you to be doing something other than sitting around with nothing to do and just thinking about using.
It's not the only way, but it's a good place to start. Take what you need from it, and leave the rest.
If you take the same amount or less every day and don't spike your dose you will eventually quit.
30 mg of Hydro can be tapered to 0 in 2-4 weeks painlessly. The PAWS will be minimal too.
The ball is in your court. We can not make you do anything. Only YOU can.
When you are ready is up to you. If you need to stay "out there" using and see for yourself how bad it will get that's up to you.
My recommendation.. Start to QUIT now! It will be a whole lot easier.
You are physically addicted. When you are in WD's one come symptom is HEIGHTENED pain. So, I think you are making yourself suffer needlessly.
Here is what I suggest.
go CT for a month. After that-reevaluate your level of pain. A great amount of the time, once you are free of the WD's and all the BS that goes with it....people find their actual pain is a lot less.
If this scares you to much, then taper down to the LOWEST level you need.
Here is something to read on addiction and tapering (opiates...but you will get the drift).
I have to sign off in an hour. Try to read this and let me know what you would like to do.
I vote you STOP the 2 on/2 off regime and taper down to a low level or to no pills. Whatever is tolerable.
Time for some technical talk... One of the things which increases "dependence" is a spike in drug blood plasma levels. Addicts do this on purpose to get a "high". They do it by Snorting (Very fast delivery), IV Injections, Chewing up meds and taking on an empty stomach.
The above all produce the most amount of drug in the blood in an attempt to get a buzz. These spikes are one of the reasons we addicts get hooked faster than a COMPLIANT Chronic Pain Patient.
Being compliant means they take only as directed. The goal of compliance is to maintain an even blood plasma at the minimum amount to treat PAIN and NOT to produce euphoria (a high).
Since the blood plasma levels are lower, the levels of dopamine at the synaptic cleft do not spike so the receptor sites do not downregulate or decrease in number in response to the initially MUCH higher level of dopamine released as a result of spiking.
Addictive dosing behaviors, the large doses associated to Spike the blood plasma level, vs the lower low dosing and more often which is the KEY factor to the physical changes the brain makes which cause dependency.
Dependency is the actual physical changes to your body which cause withdrawal. Addiction is the BEHAVIOR of taking the drugs to get high, not as prescribed, and when not needed for clinical reasons. It is the un-manageable behaviors associated with lack of control.
Which comes first... Dependence or addiction? Usually it's addiction, but it can be the other way, but the key issue which causes the progression of addiction are the behaviors.
Addiction is what makes you take more and more, spiking doses, etc. This in turn increases dependence. The higher your dependence the higher the tollerance... Round and round you go. The addiction merry-go-round.
How to break the cycle? The only way is to change the behavior. That is a very difficult thing. Pain is usually a very good motivator. So is Euphoria. When the pain out weighs the euphoria one starts to consider breaking the cycle. Unfortunately the pain being eliminated by the drug is a driving force. Then the addict associated the RELIEF of th pain to the drug instead of the drug being the CAUSE of the pain.
SOoooooooo what to do? Break the cycle.
Many have to hit bottom to do that. That's the point where the pain of using overwhelms the relief of using. It's an emotional point which is different for different people. Not every one has to hit a bottom to quit. The sooner you quit the less pain and suffering you have to experience.
For folks who are on smaller doses and their disease has not progressed very far, they have not felt the extent of pain addiction can cause. Only conceptualizing how bad it can get may not be good enough to motivate a person early in addiction to quit.
Intellectually we know what lays ahead. We hear the truth from others, but yet we continue to use. It is not until we get a glimpse of the pain that lays ahead do we become to believe we need to quit. One HAS to believe that in fact addiction does lead to the loss of everything and eventually Jails Institutions and Death.
Addiction is a lot easier to nip in the bud physically but maybe not emotionally because one has not experienced the pain first hand. Some need more pain than others to quit. Some don't make it and end up end stage and their addiction wins.
If you want to get off of the pills you have to change your behavior.
1) STOP SNORTING your pills!
2) Stop spiking your dose!
3) stop taking enough to get high
You will never quit until you do that. Weather you can or not is up to you.
You have to come to a point where you make the decision you want to quit. The en you have to make a plan then you have to execute that plan. SIMPLE .... but not easy.
The solution from a clinical point of view for you at your point of addiction is so easy. A simple taper, and change the behavior. In short break the cycle.
How to do a taper is easy. Changing the behavior is the HARD part, but you have to want to change.
If you are taking 6 pills a day... then start taking them in even doses and don't take like 3-4 at a time. 24 hrs divided by 6 = 4 hrs. So only take one pill every 4 hrs. Then take 5 pills in 24 hrs. That's 4.8 hrs. Then 4 pills a day... break pills into 1/2's so you have 8 1/2 pills. and take 1/2 a pill every 3 hrs. Etc.
If you can't stick to a taper give the pills to a friend to dispense.
Mean while .. you have to start changing the way you think and the things you do... You should educate yourself... Good place to do all of that is NA or AA. It's FREE and takes up time. It forces you to be doing something other than sitting around with nothing to do and just thinking about using.
It's not the only way, but it's a good place to start. Take what you need from it, and leave the rest.
If you take the same amount or less every day and don't spike your dose you will eventually quit.
30 mg of Hydro can be tapered to 0 in 2-4 weeks painlessly. The PAWS will be minimal too.
The ball is in your court. We can not make you do anything. Only YOU can.
When you are ready is up to you. If you need to stay "out there" using and see for yourself how bad it will get that's up to you.
My recommendation.. Start to QUIT now! It will be a whole lot easier.
I have no, and I mean noooo, money for any treatment not covered by Medical Assistance, so I have NOT tried acupuncture.
My pain is obviously not great enough to overcome my psychological fear of someone messing with my skull, so I guess I'll have to tone down my description of the pain, or, maybe, accentuate my mortal fear of the alternative.
Well, since the medicine has been working, I guess I could just cut down the amount of mgs I take per day, to stretch it out through month...but would that be worse for me? To be constantly dependant? Or 2weeks on, 2 weeks off? I've been doing the latter for months...so am I keeping the impending "addiction" at bay? or am I just making it worse for my body?
My pain is obviously not great enough to overcome my psychological fear of someone messing with my skull, so I guess I'll have to tone down my description of the pain, or, maybe, accentuate my mortal fear of the alternative.
Well, since the medicine has been working, I guess I could just cut down the amount of mgs I take per day, to stretch it out through month...but would that be worse for me? To be constantly dependant? Or 2weeks on, 2 weeks off? I've been doing the latter for months...so am I keeping the impending "addiction" at bay? or am I just making it worse for my body?
Also,
if the pain is only 'unbearable' every so often-then a taper as avis suggested would be your best approach
if the pain is only 'unbearable' every so often-then a taper as avis suggested would be your best approach
Have you tried acupuncture? How often is the pain unbearable? Is surgery an option for you in the future (if they shave the foramen magnum and make it bigger this may alleviate some of the pressure on your lower brain).
Your story isn't boring....The more info you give the easier it is to help you :-)
Greebs
Your story isn't boring....The more info you give the easier it is to help you :-)
Greebs
Good God...they wanted to rip me open like a can opener. Okay, not really, but they wanted to do shunts and Optical nerve sheath fenestration, but I had to insist they not touch my skull, nor eyes.
A lumbar puncture every 2 weeks to alleviate my pressure was my main attack, coupled with diamox, which works on decreasing output of csf.
After months of these treatments, I asked for my Adderall Rx back, lost the 30lbs I'd gained, and symptoms lessened for a couple of months.
...boring, sorry. I guess there's no way to keep it short and sweet, but this really is a nutshell version.
A lumbar puncture every 2 weeks to alleviate my pressure was my main attack, coupled with diamox, which works on decreasing output of csf.
After months of these treatments, I asked for my Adderall Rx back, lost the 30lbs I'd gained, and symptoms lessened for a couple of months.
...boring, sorry. I guess there's no way to keep it short and sweet, but this really is a nutshell version.
pari welcome,
I am concerned from the sounds of it you are going to need something for pain .Your choices with the type of pain you are speaking off is all going to be narcotic.
If you would like to stop you need to taper down slowly if you go to fast there is a possibility of sezuires .Let me know if you need any help.
I am concerned from the sounds of it you are going to need something for pain .Your choices with the type of pain you are speaking off is all going to be narcotic.
If you would like to stop you need to taper down slowly if you go to fast there is a possibility of sezuires .Let me know if you need any help.
Are they planning any surgery to make your foramen magnum bigger? That can help.....or do they expect you to continue with pills with no medical intervention?
greebs
greebs
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