Day 2 Subutex Reduction

[flame143]

Hi friends

I am here in the UK and on a subutex script.

For 8 yrs. I was on massive amounts of dihyrocodeine - I guess a mixture of hydro and vicodin - powerful stuff.  I had built up to about 40 x 30mg a day and it was killing me.  Originally started taking it for pain for an old spinal injury and stuck to the 8 per day. But with all addicts we tend to have heavy baggage and kid ourselves we are taking it for pain but really we are taking it to block of all the bad stuff that has happened to us in our lives that we cannot deal with, or can no longer cope with.  We like the euphoria, the energy and being able to block things off.  So we end up addicts.

Beg. of Nov. started on 6mg of subutex.  First 6 weeks no withdrawals and just felt normal but emotionally nothing.  

Started taking vitamins and minerals, good diet and building up a good exercise regime which for me was walking - now 40-50mins. per day.  Stopped taking valium at night.  Then first 6 weeks of year felt fantastic!  Was reducing at 0.4mg per week.  'Natural energy', or so I thought, tremendous peace of mind and a zest for life I had not felt in years.  I thought I was winning all round - the addiction and all my demons.  Night meant pain at night and sleeping on and off all through the night and temp. swinging up and down.  But okay.  Head was clear and I looked a million times better.  Sussed!

Down to 3.6mg and breakthrough pain started so I was told to stay on the 3.6mg and that was 9 weeks ago then the depression started.  And boy oh boy it has been a roller coaster of horrors.  With subutex, people talk of the 'honeymoon period' of feeling great, and then falling down.  Fall I did.  Anxiety attacks, pessimism about the future, no hope, severe anger about the whole of my life, bitterness, hatred, real extremes - the demons truly came to visit, and real, deep, profound unhappiness.  Depression personified.  The odd days bearable inbetween.  Started researching subutex and found this could happen to people who had mental health problems, had not had such a great deal in life through things happening to them such as traumatic car crashes changing their lives and **** childhoods(!), and history of depression.  Had not chosen methadone to get of the pills as knew I did not have the discipline not to abuse it.  So ... what to do?  

The shorter time you are on subutex apparently, the easier the withdrawal at the end, and the less likelihood of PAWS from what I can gather. I just want off it.  Have had 3 days of feeling okay mentally and want to be rid of it.  The dihydro should be gone and now this stuff, yet another addictive chemical needs to **** off too!  

Docs need to tell you about the negative sides of the drugs that help you come off your DOC when they prescribe them.  Had I known what was in store ..... I would never have stopped reducing back in Feb.  Have wasted 2 months letting the subutex get more of a hold.  

Day 2 - am down to 3.2mg.  Need to take into account the half life, storage of subutex in body fat people talk about.  If I feel stable after 5 days I will drop another 0.4 mg.  Get the tablets in 2mg and 0.4mg.  

Prior to starting, I began taking vitamins and minerals and making sure I was on a good diet, which I had let slip during the bad depression, which is when you just don't care.  Had kept up the exercise because my dog needed to still get out and she has helped me a lot.  Taking her to the fields and woods has helped me think a lot of stuff out.  When I don't want to go, I force myself to.  Seeing her enjoyment as she hunts and plays brings me pleasure when nothing else does.  

Would be happy to hear from others - good stories and bad, and those that want to take the same journey.  I will always reply.  

Take care all
- F

[Eveleivibe]

Are you tapering under the supervision of a doctor or doing it yourself? If latter, i would go talk to a proffessional about this.

[flame143]

Couldn't believe reading about your father - poor kid he was at that time.  Cruelty!  
And your son?  Boy oh boy!  Mine is 17 this Sept. and although he doesn't need a lioness (very rarely!), he's always had one if needed. Unless you had learned that doctors are not Gods i.e. not all are good(!) then you may have not saved your son.  Nothing is like the love and instinct we have for our child or children.  Mine is an eternal optimist and he makes me laugh! If it wasn't for him, I cared so little about myself or anybody else that I would have given up.
I hid everything from him but he knows the whole story now and is very logical about it and happy I have addressed it and am dealing with it, and is proud of me.  He carries on having a happy great life with his friends and is doing well at school.  I am lucky.  Will miss him when he goes to college in 2 yrs!    
I am astounded a doc told you to get meth from the street - how ignorant and dangerous was that!
You are obviously a very strong character to have made it through in spite of the idiots you encountered along the way.  
I enjoy being angry at injustice, as I like to care, and at least sign a Petition, write a letter - not be a potatoe head who wants the world to revolve around me.  It never will, never has and why should it?  Plenty, plenty of people who are in much worse positions.  
Feel lucky to be able to have support and encouragement and have got strength and determination back.
Hey Rock On is something I have been saying since my teens!  Good to hear someone else to say it!
Thank you and take care.  And Rock On!
- Fee

[weaver71]

I know what you mean about the positive side of anger, it's there to create an action to fix it. All are feelings are there to help guide us, away from danger, toward our loved ones, or to change the system. As long as my responses are positive and don't cause me to hurt myself, anger is a powerful tool. I found it better to deal with some of those things after detox. I have generations of resentment toward doctors. My dad has polio. They gave him morphine from age 1 to 12 and cut him off CT. He was so high as a kid he just sat there and put puzzles together for most of his youth. Had I not been watching, a doctor would have let my son die on the table. When I asked for help, the doctor told me to go get more methadone in the street and start tapering, I almost killed myself with that advice,. Was told I had to be on subs for 2 yrs for them to work. I've seen more bad advice than good come from doctors. I now see that has been my luck, not all doctors are mindless money ******. It took a long time to admit that. I have friends that are doctors that really care, that has helped. Anyway, you're doing great at the -2mg level. Glad to see your progress, no matter what else is going on. I hope your anger produces the fruits of change. It keeps changing for me. I was angry at me, doctors, society, pretty much everything for a while. Now I've grown to see those doctors as sick, like me, but their drug of choice is power or money. That's the only way I can explain the insanity so many suffer. I want to be angry at injustice, and I am. I don't take it personal anymore or point my finger at one group or person. I'm angry about the situation, all of it. I try to do something each day to change it. Sometimes I feel better about it than others, but at least I'm no longer part of the problem, that's progress. You're doing great, keep us posted as you drop, you're getting so close to the end. I'm excited for you. Rock on!

[MaKailynsmama]

Hey f! You were saying you wanted to know how it baby was...she's doing great, no withdrawl symptoms, she is 32 weeks and 21 day old now! I am so happy she didnt have to experience any withdrawls at all! I think subutex is a way more effective drug to put opiate dependant mothers on, opposed to methadone. There is more of a chance for babies to go through withdrawal on methadone i think for sure! You had asked is i was going to breastfeed, and they would not let me in the hospital because when i was in there i had to get a ç-section because i would not dialate past 7 1/2 cm so they decided to do c-section ;and when they put the spinal in my back, the anesthesiologist put it up too high in mymy spine and i stopped breathing, and they had to put me under general anesthesia,so they told me i was unable to breastfeed. And so she started on bottles and formula, and when i tried to change her over she didn't take well. But everything is great now, I'm okay and most importantly she is okay and happy and healthy! But i remembered you had said you wanted an update on her and everything!

[17mthssober275]

Hi, keep hanging in there, sounds like you are beating it, good for you and congratulations. You are dealing with a lot, your son and a sick mom. That's hard on you, but keep strong like you are and you will find life will be easier to cope with in time. Darn doctors sure do make problems, and sometimes they need to be told they are wrong, for sure. Good for you for writing the letter, good wishes with that. Doctors gave my fiancé morphine, no problem with them. Crazy doctors, here are your pain pills, have a nice life. He's been clean over 19 months cold turkey. He took antihistamine pills afterwards, he said they helped him sleep and then he gave them up too. We do eat more sugary foods now, but we are clean. We keep very busy now and that helps lots.

[flame143]

You have a wonderful way with words Weaver!  And wise ones too - thank you again for your encouragement.  
Resentment towards the medical field is rife.  They nearly killed me after my accident three times and I survived each of their **** ups.  And it has been an endless round of ineptitude, miscommunication and a sense that 'juniors' are i the seat. The experience of how my addiction has been handled has left me speechless!  In the past month my 'outreach worker/prescribing nurse', the one meant to be supporting me, has not even sent a text in the past 4 weeks to see how my reduction is going?  I am going to educate her in the end when this is all over!  For the good of others.  The drug service I went to were great - mostly used to prescribing meth but because they had never dealt with someone like me before, I was discharged after 6 weeks.  
It was presumed - aah pain, led to painkiller addiction (never mind the fact they were dihydrocodeine - about 1.5 times strength of codeine, had additional addictive factors, had got up to 40 x 30mg a day and had been addicted for 8 years.  
You will laugh at this one - overdosed on painkillers and Soma - not so I was out cold but my doc came round as my interfering mother decided I sounded very weird on the phone.  I went through hell CT in hospital and was treated like junkie scum.  In those days it was early in my addiction and I was quite ignorant, and was masking many underlying problems with the pills, not just pain.
After 4 days and back at home I could barely do anything and you can imagine the paranoia, panic attacks.  My doc sent round a photocopy about 'anxiety' attacks and I was left to it.  Needless to say, I sourced my DOC as I was a mental and physical wreck. And the pain clinic shrugged their shoulders a few months later and put told her to script me back on them too!
That was when I needed help.  I was in denial, all alarm bells were ringing but I might as well have not existed.  And I would have not have wasted 5 more years of my life.
Still Weaver, I think sometimes it helps to get mad at them, to feel mad, as it drives you on.  Anger adds to the determination!
Took my dog out yesterday and back did fine, and cooked dinner afterwards.  Done in afterwards and glad to get to bed.  But hey, the day ended up better.  
Only have to see my mother for a while today (she now has early Alzheimer's), then I will escape to the fields and woods with my dog.  Son is at a party.  So .... all going well, a light day from early afternoon and some time out and another taper.  1.7mg today and tomorrow.  1.6mg on Sat.
Have a good weekend.  Bet you have got lots of wind and rain coming like I have here!
Thank you again. All the best to you
- Fee