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Day 2 Subutex Reduction
Hi friends
I am here in the UK and on a subutex script.
For 8 yrs. I was on massive amounts of dihyrocodeine - I guess a mixture of hydro and vicodin - powerful stuff. I had built up to about 40 x 30mg a day and it was killing me. Originally started taking it for pain for an old spinal injury and stuck to the 8 per day. But with all addicts we tend to have heavy baggage and kid ourselves we are taking it for pain but really we are taking it to block of all the bad stuff that has happened to us in our lives that we cannot deal with, or can no longer cope with. We like the euphoria, the energy and being able to block things off. So we end up addicts.
Beg. of Nov. started on 6mg of subutex. First 6 weeks no withdrawals and just felt normal but emotionally nothing.
Started taking vitamins and minerals, good diet and building up a good exercise regime which for me was walking - now 40-50mins. per day. Stopped taking valium at night. Then first 6 weeks of year felt fantastic! Was reducing at 0.4mg per week. 'Natural energy', or so I thought, tremendous peace of mind and a zest for life I had not felt in years. I thought I was winning all round - the addiction and all my demons. Night meant pain at night and sleeping on and off all through the night and temp. swinging up and down. But okay. Head was clear and I looked a million times better. Sussed!
Down to 3.6mg and breakthrough pain started so I was told to stay on the 3.6mg and that was 9 weeks ago then the depression started. And boy oh boy it has been a roller coaster of horrors. With subutex, people talk of the 'honeymoon period' of feeling great, and then falling down. Fall I did. Anxiety attacks, pessimism about the future, no hope, severe anger about the whole of my life, bitterness, hatred, real extremes - the demons truly came to visit, and real, deep, profound unhappiness. Depression personified. The odd days bearable inbetween. Started researching subutex and found this could happen to people who had mental health problems, had not had such a great deal in life through things happening to them such as traumatic car crashes changing their lives and **** childhoods(!), and history of depression. Had not chosen methadone to get of the pills as knew I did not have the discipline not to abuse it. So ... what to do?
The shorter time you are on subutex apparently, the easier the withdrawal at the end, and the less likelihood of PAWS from what I can gather. I just want off it. Have had 3 days of feeling okay mentally and want to be rid of it. The dihydro should be gone and now this stuff, yet another addictive chemical needs to **** off too!
Docs need to tell you about the negative sides of the drugs that help you come off your DOC when they prescribe them. Had I known what was in store ..... I would never have stopped reducing back in Feb. Have wasted 2 months letting the subutex get more of a hold.
Day 2 - am down to 3.2mg. Need to take into account the half life, storage of subutex in body fat people talk about. If I feel stable after 5 days I will drop another 0.4 mg. Get the tablets in 2mg and 0.4mg.
Prior to starting, I began taking vitamins and minerals and making sure I was on a good diet, which I had let slip during the bad depression, which is when you just don't care. Had kept up the exercise because my dog needed to still get out and she has helped me a lot. Taking her to the fields and woods has helped me think a lot of stuff out. When I don't want to go, I force myself to. Seeing her enjoyment as she hunts and plays brings me pleasure when nothing else does.
Would be happy to hear from others - good stories and bad, and those that want to take the same journey. I will always reply.
Take care all
- F
I am here in the UK and on a subutex script.
For 8 yrs. I was on massive amounts of dihyrocodeine - I guess a mixture of hydro and vicodin - powerful stuff. I had built up to about 40 x 30mg a day and it was killing me. Originally started taking it for pain for an old spinal injury and stuck to the 8 per day. But with all addicts we tend to have heavy baggage and kid ourselves we are taking it for pain but really we are taking it to block of all the bad stuff that has happened to us in our lives that we cannot deal with, or can no longer cope with. We like the euphoria, the energy and being able to block things off. So we end up addicts.
Beg. of Nov. started on 6mg of subutex. First 6 weeks no withdrawals and just felt normal but emotionally nothing.
Started taking vitamins and minerals, good diet and building up a good exercise regime which for me was walking - now 40-50mins. per day. Stopped taking valium at night. Then first 6 weeks of year felt fantastic! Was reducing at 0.4mg per week. 'Natural energy', or so I thought, tremendous peace of mind and a zest for life I had not felt in years. I thought I was winning all round - the addiction and all my demons. Night meant pain at night and sleeping on and off all through the night and temp. swinging up and down. But okay. Head was clear and I looked a million times better. Sussed!
Down to 3.6mg and breakthrough pain started so I was told to stay on the 3.6mg and that was 9 weeks ago then the depression started. And boy oh boy it has been a roller coaster of horrors. With subutex, people talk of the 'honeymoon period' of feeling great, and then falling down. Fall I did. Anxiety attacks, pessimism about the future, no hope, severe anger about the whole of my life, bitterness, hatred, real extremes - the demons truly came to visit, and real, deep, profound unhappiness. Depression personified. The odd days bearable inbetween. Started researching subutex and found this could happen to people who had mental health problems, had not had such a great deal in life through things happening to them such as traumatic car crashes changing their lives and **** childhoods(!), and history of depression. Had not chosen methadone to get of the pills as knew I did not have the discipline not to abuse it. So ... what to do?
The shorter time you are on subutex apparently, the easier the withdrawal at the end, and the less likelihood of PAWS from what I can gather. I just want off it. Have had 3 days of feeling okay mentally and want to be rid of it. The dihydro should be gone and now this stuff, yet another addictive chemical needs to **** off too!
Docs need to tell you about the negative sides of the drugs that help you come off your DOC when they prescribe them. Had I known what was in store ..... I would never have stopped reducing back in Feb. Have wasted 2 months letting the subutex get more of a hold.
Day 2 - am down to 3.2mg. Need to take into account the half life, storage of subutex in body fat people talk about. If I feel stable after 5 days I will drop another 0.4 mg. Get the tablets in 2mg and 0.4mg.
Prior to starting, I began taking vitamins and minerals and making sure I was on a good diet, which I had let slip during the bad depression, which is when you just don't care. Had kept up the exercise because my dog needed to still get out and she has helped me a lot. Taking her to the fields and woods has helped me think a lot of stuff out. When I don't want to go, I force myself to. Seeing her enjoyment as she hunts and plays brings me pleasure when nothing else does.
Would be happy to hear from others - good stories and bad, and those that want to take the same journey. I will always reply.
Take care all
- F
Best Answer
Try to give yourself a break. I have found that most addicts are really great people, so awesome in fact, they beat themselves up for not being perfect. The problems in the world and life seem to touch the addict in a personal way. You will have the rest of your life to make up lost time, you will have time to be the person you intend to be. I found that I am becoming a better person and living a better life than I thought I was capable of. Stay focused on recovery, all the rest will fall into place. Great work so far. Time heals all things.
Yeah, I'm still working on my resentments toward the medical field. They are justifiable resentments, but those feelings only hurt me. They don't even know or care how I feel. We can't rely on them. We lean on each other and rebuild our control over our lives. I'm sorry you are dealing with added struggle, but you can do it. No matter what other people do, you will find your way. It was suggested that I keep watch on my expectations. I had to make sure I wasn't setting myself up for disappointment. Just wanted to encourage you to focus on recovery and those things you do have control over. The world keeps putting distractions in front of us, and our brains search for excuses to get what it wants. Withdrawal symptoms are hard enough to deal with, the exhaustion and fog make us vulnerable. Decision making is very difficult. I hope something gives soon, it will all be worth it, no matter what oath leads you to freedom. You have come a long way. Congrats on your progress. Progress over perfection, ever reminds us to put principles above personalities. Keep your eyes on the prize.
The WDs and generally feeling unwell are getting me down now the past week. The 2mg mark. Down to 1.8mg - on the 4th day. Got to make it to 1.6mg by Monday. Cold most of the time and headaches.
Would very much like not have to be doing things like all the usual domestic stuff, overseeing revision for important exams for son, looking in on mother. Got hospital appointment today (nothing to do with all this).
Should be switched, technically to the bu trans next week but it is so ridiculous that I will be on half the amount of analgesia that I was originally scripted for, before I became addicted. I really hope that my GP listens to all I have said to her in my letter (as I couldn't get into to see her). If not, I am going to continue with these WDs for some time, as well as very, very little pain relief.
Feeling a bit pee'd off today to say the least!
- Fee
Would very much like not have to be doing things like all the usual domestic stuff, overseeing revision for important exams for son, looking in on mother. Got hospital appointment today (nothing to do with all this).
Should be switched, technically to the bu trans next week but it is so ridiculous that I will be on half the amount of analgesia that I was originally scripted for, before I became addicted. I really hope that my GP listens to all I have said to her in my letter (as I couldn't get into to see her). If not, I am going to continue with these WDs for some time, as well as very, very little pain relief.
Feeling a bit pee'd off today to say the least!
- Fee
Will certainly let you know how the bu trans patches go Weaver - thank you. Funnily enough I have spent the day researching it. I am meant to be staring on the 10ug/h which is half the amount of dihydrocodeine I was legally scripted before I started overtaking it!
I have quoted from a table regarding equivalent dosages to my doc who I'm unable to see for at least 2 weeks. I am practically at the stage now where I should be switching to it. Hoping that she will put me o nthe 20ug/h as life is so limited at the moment and driving me nuts! I have to accept the new limitations without the excess drugs but I am not the type who is willing to sit around. Need to be out there, not starting to cry if I walk an eighth of a mile! These patches cannot be 'abused' by taking extra opiods on top or you can get yourself into trouble, and anyway, I don't intend to go down that road again. The paying back is way, way too much!
Take care. Fee
I have quoted from a table regarding equivalent dosages to my doc who I'm unable to see for at least 2 weeks. I am practically at the stage now where I should be switching to it. Hoping that she will put me o nthe 20ug/h as life is so limited at the moment and driving me nuts! I have to accept the new limitations without the excess drugs but I am not the type who is willing to sit around. Need to be out there, not starting to cry if I walk an eighth of a mile! These patches cannot be 'abused' by taking extra opiods on top or you can get yourself into trouble, and anyway, I don't intend to go down that road again. The paying back is way, way too much!
Take care. Fee
Bu trans is the patch that comes in 5, 10, and 20 micrograms of bupe that is most common in chronic pain therapy. You shouldn't be able to feel it, but hopefully it will help with pain. I mean, the strongest patch is 1/50th of a 1 milligram. There may be stronger one's now. My info comes from the British inventors of buprenorphine, 6 months ago. Let us know how it works.
Hi clean-in-ks
Thank you for your kind words.
I presume maybe that you have a chronic pain condition too?
Bu trans patches would you believe are a bupe too! I am not feeling too cool about going onto another bupe when I want to get off them!
My pain is chronic moderate to severe. Severe if I do my exercise(physio!) by walking my dog each day and the usual housework etc. Also have a teenager. But I NEED to exercise or I will seize up and it is not good physically or mentally to give in to your disabilities. Have enough left to walk with and darn well walk I will!
Used to be a cross country runner and one of my favourite pastimes was running down beaches. Used to travel round the world and lived in a lot of other countries too (hot and tropical not like the long wintery UK yuk!) I do not like to be defeated!
Walking my dog out in the fields and woods was a really important part of my process in tapering off the subs, building myself up, physically, and very importantly mentally, again (as an addict I became a vegetable in every way i.e. lost myself but was a darned good actress at covering it up so I didn't get 'discovered').
Due at pain clinic 12th June -long waiting lists here although of course we are lucky to have the NHS. My doc has said I will have to be an opiod for the rest of life because of the extent of spinal nerve pain I have. I just wish there was another way. I am good at mind over matter in a lot of areas but when the pain is so bad I am laid up in bed, like I was for 2 days last week due to overdoing it (stubborness!), I get quite mad about it.
I have got to do a lot of work on my mind and deal with new limitations in life.
I also want my docs to put more of an effort in to looking at pain relief without using opiates. I do NOT want opiates.
You can read up on bu trans patches on the internet. I presume they have them in the US?
All I can say from my own experience is that I tried many opiates (under medical supervision at the time, before I became an addict) and dihydrocodeine was the one I went for as it made my whole body feel like liquid - my joints even didn't hurt, let alone my spine and legs, and gave energy and euphoria too when I started upping the dose on my own and became addicted.
avisg's on this Forum has done an interesting pain equivalent dose (oral) which you may find interesting. I did, especially as breakthrough pain came at a certain point when I was tapering off subutex.
I find it amazing the massive amounts of sub that people in the US are put on for some pretty minor addictions in some cases too! And on both sides of the pond we are definitely NOT given enough info. about just how powerful this drug is!
Clean, I will definitely let you know what the pain clinic comes up with, and if there is anything new that is happening i.e. alternatives to opiates that can work.
Please feel free to message me about the cause of your pain and see if I can give any advice. I am an old hand at pain!
All the very best to you, and may the sun shine on you
- Fee
Thank you for your kind words.
I presume maybe that you have a chronic pain condition too?
Bu trans patches would you believe are a bupe too! I am not feeling too cool about going onto another bupe when I want to get off them!
My pain is chronic moderate to severe. Severe if I do my exercise(physio!) by walking my dog each day and the usual housework etc. Also have a teenager. But I NEED to exercise or I will seize up and it is not good physically or mentally to give in to your disabilities. Have enough left to walk with and darn well walk I will!
Used to be a cross country runner and one of my favourite pastimes was running down beaches. Used to travel round the world and lived in a lot of other countries too (hot and tropical not like the long wintery UK yuk!) I do not like to be defeated!
Walking my dog out in the fields and woods was a really important part of my process in tapering off the subs, building myself up, physically, and very importantly mentally, again (as an addict I became a vegetable in every way i.e. lost myself but was a darned good actress at covering it up so I didn't get 'discovered').
Due at pain clinic 12th June -long waiting lists here although of course we are lucky to have the NHS. My doc has said I will have to be an opiod for the rest of life because of the extent of spinal nerve pain I have. I just wish there was another way. I am good at mind over matter in a lot of areas but when the pain is so bad I am laid up in bed, like I was for 2 days last week due to overdoing it (stubborness!), I get quite mad about it.
I have got to do a lot of work on my mind and deal with new limitations in life.
I also want my docs to put more of an effort in to looking at pain relief without using opiates. I do NOT want opiates.
You can read up on bu trans patches on the internet. I presume they have them in the US?
All I can say from my own experience is that I tried many opiates (under medical supervision at the time, before I became an addict) and dihydrocodeine was the one I went for as it made my whole body feel like liquid - my joints even didn't hurt, let alone my spine and legs, and gave energy and euphoria too when I started upping the dose on my own and became addicted.
avisg's on this Forum has done an interesting pain equivalent dose (oral) which you may find interesting. I did, especially as breakthrough pain came at a certain point when I was tapering off subutex.
I find it amazing the massive amounts of sub that people in the US are put on for some pretty minor addictions in some cases too! And on both sides of the pond we are definitely NOT given enough info. about just how powerful this drug is!
Clean, I will definitely let you know what the pain clinic comes up with, and if there is anything new that is happening i.e. alternatives to opiates that can work.
Please feel free to message me about the cause of your pain and see if I can give any advice. I am an old hand at pain!
All the very best to you, and may the sun shine on you
- Fee
Hi Weaver71
Thank you yet again for words of encouragement and real, real common sense and inspiration.
You make me think each time and keep my feet on the ground!
This really jumped out at me: 'Going too fast has many draw backs. Once the WD gets bad, it's hard to get stable again. It takes some time.' So, have decided to cut down to dropping at 0.2mg instead of 0.4mg and heed your warning.
It is only because of good people like yourself that others can learn to do it the right way. My drugs outreach worker is young and inexperienced (and lacks empathy!) which is why I came on the Forum.
'Slow and steady wins the race'. Love it!
All the best to you Weaver, and thank you so much.
Have a great day
- Fee
Thank you yet again for words of encouragement and real, real common sense and inspiration.
You make me think each time and keep my feet on the ground!
This really jumped out at me: 'Going too fast has many draw backs. Once the WD gets bad, it's hard to get stable again. It takes some time.' So, have decided to cut down to dropping at 0.2mg instead of 0.4mg and heed your warning.
It is only because of good people like yourself that others can learn to do it the right way. My drugs outreach worker is young and inexperienced (and lacks empathy!) which is why I came on the Forum.
'Slow and steady wins the race'. Love it!
All the best to you Weaver, and thank you so much.
Have a great day
- Fee
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