never felt so low or empty

[maria920]

I have been a member here for a long time but at some point in my recovery I stopped comimg on. I apologize
About that. Things since I stopped signing on were pretty good, for a while anyway. I don't know how it all started but I started to slip into this kind of depression I guess, I didn't want to leave my house I couldn't find joy and anything no matter what and to be completely completely honest I don't even remember what it's like to be happy. For those of you who don't know me I am a heroin addict and I have been clean for about 3 years. I am a mother and wife, my husband chose to stay by my side through all of this which couldn't have been easy on him. My children are young 1 at the time was 6 the other was one and a half maybe 2 so they really had no idea what was going on. But now when they say mommy lets play or my husband said it was fun when we go outside or go to the store or do anything I can't. Alright I would much rather be alone then with anybody else as much as that sounds like I'm a bad person and I don't care about my family I'm the complete opposite I love them more than my own life but I don't know what to do from here. I am still on suboxone I started off at 16 milligrams a day and within 2 months I wean myself down to 8 milligrams without doctor consent of course. After a while I did tell him and he was okay with it. Long story short I ended up leaving the doctor and find a new one and I'm still at the same dosebut everytime I try to lower the dose or my doctor mentions lowering the dose I have this over whelming sense of fear and my anxiety takes over and that's it. I can't say then I fear the unknown because I know what it is so I'm afraid of. I don't even know myself it's because of these subs. A year and a half ago I would have commented on everybody used to read that has gone on subs and said there are a lifesaver you'll see they're the best thing in the world but the truth is there wasn't enough study done to show with the long term effects we're going to be. I am 29 years old and I weigh,98 pounds, my hair is falling out terribly, insomnia oh the insomnia we won't even go there right now because I don't sleep at all.I want to get off these things like 2 years ago but now I feel I'm too far into it and I'm stuck on them. tthere were many many many times where I thought and I'll going back on heroin just to wean myself off the subs. The withdrawal from the heroine was nothing compared to those suboxin. I know this is just a rant but there is a question coming I promise. My question is should I just stick with the suboxin to a cheaper plan and get off that way or should I stop taking Suboxone all together let my body going to withdraw and go on methadone. If I were to go on methadone it would be strictly to get me off of Suboxone there would be no maintenance or anything like that. I just can't live this way anymore, everyday I get up and I do the same thing it take medicine to make myself normal, if I didn't have that medicine I would be sick as a dog not knowing what to do with myself. Can anybody explain to me.... how being a heroin addict and using heroin everyday is different from what I'm doing now?let's forget about the stealing and lying that goes along with  actively usingbecause there is none of that but I think that's the only thing is none of. I've traded one addiction for another and I told myself in the beginning that I would never do that nope I'm just getting help that would never happen to me well guess what it did and now after being on them for 3 years or maybe more I feel there's no way to get off I feel there's no hope for me. If anybody has any tips or ideas or suggestions I'm open to pretty much anything at this point. I just want to be able to look in the mirror one day and the person that staring back at me is actually me, because right now the person I see staring back isn't me

[clean_in_ks]

Maria.....you say you don't know where to start.....and fears are keeping you from taking any action.....but once you take a baby step...the next one will come easier.

You said you have avoided going to the dr but after reading how you are feeling, your extremely low weight, hair falling out, etc. it would be really good to just get in for a basic physical check up and have some routine blood work done.

If you can make a plan to get some protein in you and eat something a REGULAR intervals....your brain will do A LOT better.  I know you said you forget to eat, but it's REALLY important to have our brain and bodies nourished....so maybe you can make a list of some easy foods that sound good to you and get them in you every few hours.  Are you drinking any protein drinks, taking any nutritional supplements of any kind?  Drinking Emergen-C or anything like that?

Just make a plan to take these baby steps.....then you can tweak your plan and take additional baby steps.  Getting to a dr, eating regularly, and getting yourself to some meetings, getting back into a counseling group like you were in before, or talking to a private therapist...just something that gets you out of your house and around some other people....these 3 things will help you physically, emotionally and spiritually.  You are starving yourself in ALL these ways girl.....and we all need these things.

It's a "cinch by the inch"....and "hard by the yard"....so just make plans for a few baby steps to get you going.  I'm so glad you have returned to the forum....and I SO hope you will do some things that are good for Maria.
Please keep posting and letting us know how you are getting on....Sending love and a BIG hug to you, Maria
Connie  

[enadmit]

Hi,   I've been on Sub for 3 years. Started off with 16 mg / day like you.
I now  take 1.25 mg a day. I just started cutting the strips smaller and smaller until I got to where I am now. I have NO problem taking Subs for the rest of my life.  Without, I have been in my grave by now.
I just think if you cut down, it may make you feel better both mentally and phisicaly. (sorry for my spelling)
Good luck

[enadmit]

Hi,   I've been on Sub for 3 years. Started off with 16 mg / day like you.
I now  take 1.25 mg a day. I just started cutting the strips smaller and smaller until I got to where I am now. I have NO problem taking Subs for the rest of my life.  Without, I have been in my grave by now.
I just think if you cut down, it may make you feel better both mentally and phisicaly. (sorry for my spelling)
Good luck

[otterwatcher]

The reason you are feeling so low might be because you are not eating properly.-food affects mood. I don't think swapping your sub habit for a meth habit is a great idea-meth is much more difficult to come off. and opiates won't work while you are taking subs so you'd have to withdraw before you took any opiates which kinda defeats  the object! I've been completely clean for 10 years now-there is light at the end of the tunnel. I was on 16mg subs for 3 years and reduced fairly quickly when I did come off them but the last 0.2mg took months to come off-more of a crutch than anything-the withdrawal was minor when  I finally stopped.I will never go back.I hope you find the strength to come off the subs or at least attempt a reduction-I was surprised at how little I noticed when I reduced.

[maria920]

Connie, for some reason I couldn't read your post from start to finish until just now. Everytime I tried I cried, and that bc every word you habe always said has been the truth. In fact everyone here has spoken nothing but the truth and I love that, I need that. My  dr is still great but my last appt I asked him if he's ever gotten anyone off suboxone and they didn't turn back. He said yes but he is a maintenance dr and when it gets to that point illnhave to enter rehab. I would be okneith that if I wasn't blind sided with it .. ya know. It really scares me to think I will be going backwards.  When I first got clean I wanted to go to rehab more than anything but as time went on and I got better thst changed. All I want is to be the mother my children deserve. My son was diagnosed with autism a few months ago but I was ok with that bc we knew and we already had him in a great school to help him. With me like this I feel as though they see there's something wrong with me. My daughter already hates me but that's a whole different issue. I know this is all over the place, that how messed up my thinking is. My weight has always been on the lower side, I was always small but when i started using it was disgusting.  At one point I only weighed 80lbs which was my lowest right at the end. Now tuere are days I get so sidetracked I almost forget to eat or maybe I just put it off I'm not sure. Its something I've been watching now and trying to get a healthy diet hasn't been easy. I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables but that may be the problem. Theres so much that's wrong I'm not sure what to fix first or where to start. I want my old self back more than anything but I'm not sure if I even remember who that is anymore. I can say for the first time in months I felt a little hope. I know I can do this but knowing how to live without anything is my fear. Its an overwhelming fear I have that I've been battling for a long time. I'm really happy I came here tho bc I know how much all of you helped me before. ♡  

[jifmoc]

Maria! So glad you came back:)

Give yourself credit. You KNOW what to do to help yourself, now all you have to do is do it. There is a term (I kind of hate it) called contrary action: doing something even when you don't feel like it. Of course you have a hard time going to meetings or checking on here, it's effort! But, when we get out of our comfort zone, that's when the changes happen. Trust me, I know how you feel, I fought doing aftercare tooth and nail. But nothing changes if nothing changes right?

Stay close and keep sharing your thoughts!!

[maria920]

My new doctor is actually really good. Hes doesn't just come in and give my script and leave. He actually cares and I feel really comfortable talking to him. Im not going to meetings but its something I know I HAVE to do and frankly I want to. I'm not surewwhat's holding me back , no excuses I think it may be bc I felt I had everything under control until the last few months. I haven't used again, but the thought is there. I know the person I am and want to be are still inside somewhere its just hard to see it right now. I've made an appt to see a psychiatrist its next week. I've been putting that off as well but I can't anymore. I have to admit I haven't fully read all of your comments. No disrespect at all its everytime I start I can't hold back from crying. I'm getting there and I really appreciate all of you helping me. It feels so good to get somethings out bc I've kept them in for so long I wasn't sure what to say or even how to start.  What I do know is I'm not myself and I have put my defenses back up bc temptation is there and if I went back to using then all of this is for nothing and that I couldn't live with. For right now I'm back to living every day at a time. As far as blood work goes I've scheduled it many times and every time I didn't go. Again I'm not sure what the fear is but its there and its something I have to get over in order to get better.

[maria920]

I've been on suboxone for around 3 years. You're 100% right when you say I don't know how to live a sober life. Id really love to say I do but I'd be lying. I never felt the way I feel now and that's the hard part. I look in the mirror and I don't know the person looking back. I've been going to counseling and I've taken a lot from it but I don't think its enough.  Dealing with anything is hard for me  lately even the simplest things. Sry it took so long to get back here, I have to get in the habit of coming back everyday like I used to.

[EvolverU]

Hi Maria & Welcome back,

I'm so sorry that you've been suffering this (& particularly, that you've been doing so in silence). Thank you for posting!

I've experienced the sort of hellish chronic insomnia you describe -- it really tears you down physically & mentally. I think it's definitely time to get to a Dr. Not just any Dr., but one who's experienced in the effects of Suboxone. It might very well be the culprit. One thing that's not often discussed on here are the very real changes to the Endocrine system that can happen as a result of switching opiates & sometimes with detox. I experienced this on Subs, M'done & also when I came off. The depression, insomnia, hair loss & weight loss sound familiar. Are you also experiencing frequent elimination? Changes in skin & nail quality? Changes in vision? Are you actually thinner than you were on H? Some folks have a really hard time on Subs. Usually, their thyroids slow down but sometimes they speed up. It's important that you get this possibility checked out by someone knowledgeable. I agree with you that not enough study has gone into the long-term effects of this powerful drug.

Maria, two years may feel like a long time but there's definitely hope! (You wouldn't be here if you didn't know this somewhere inside). You are Young. You have much in front of you..Good Things! You just have to figure out how to navigate your way out of this maze. That means doing the research, listening to your own body & mind (your healthy 'higher' mind) & feeding your spirit. Remember: you put the H down! (Awesome!) & you can absolutely do this too.

Please keep posting & let us know what you're thinking & how you're doing :)

[meegWpaw]

maria, tienes comer algo, flaquita!!!  i know you have been off medhelp for a while, im glad to see you back, sorry you are not doing as well as you would like to be.  i really don't know much about subs or heroin, but i really hope you  get some good medical care and get back on track soon.  you can do it!  feel better, my friend!

[VICourageous]

First of all it is nice to see you on again. I think you need to stick around more.
Most Sub Drs recommend you do these types of meetings or they will not prescribe. Did yours do this??

I also want to mentioned again to you that I went c/t back in 2012 from 3 meds at the age 56. I have been using off & on, with this or that since 14. It does take time after we become clean for the brain to Balance or flip back over. As the brain heals it sends singles to the body that might not be real. Like you might feel like fibro, but you will not have it in most cases.

It took me 2 yrs and I mean even a lil over 2 yrs as my brain & body went through so many changes. I had days I would not leave my room and days I could go to a couple of meetings. It was the most interesting, but not to comfortable feeling I have ever gone through. It is like you feel all kinds of new emotions and you have to get used to living in your own skin. I had up'd my support and changed my support so many times, however I always go to meetings. Some weeks tons and some just a few. SO just do a nice easy taper and let the body adjust. YES, YES, & YES, get a complete blood panel done. I did this over 2 yrs ago and I am doing it again. I do not think we will ever know what "Normal" is, but you will see the light soon after you are completely off the SUBS! They do block alot of your emotions too.."Big Time"..I wish you the best.
Get off them as soon as you can..lol
Bless
Vickie

[Krissy_123]

Haha no worries "neveragain" that's why these are just our oppinions. I know I felt like this well using. I was alive,but not really. I went through the motions of a living being,but I was dead on the inside. And yes I also still have depression. Nothing like I use to it,but I'm still healing. I don't disagree at all I think she should get a complete physical. BUT a large part of what's happening to her,wouldn't be if she was off the subs or never on them to begin with. We were putting poison in our bodies,so we are bound to get sick.

[NeverAgain127]

Krissy, I agree, but I also think she needs to get a medical exam...the works.  

I've been doing a lot of reading.  About 12 step groups, what happened BEFORE they took hold (it all started when I watched the old movie "Synanon" about early drug treatment in the '50s and '60s...brutal.)

Suboxone has dramatically decreased the number of overdose deaths not only here in the U.S. but globally.  I think it has value.   BUT...I've never taken it so I cannot speak from experience.

Depression can cause alopecia (hair falling out) and weight loss.  And many, many folks in recovery discover that YES, they're sober, but their heads aren't right.  Mine isn't yet.  I've got 5 months in a few days, and today I was so sad and depressed I did nothing but lay in bed.

Anyhow...sorry to get off track.  

[Krissy_123]

99.9% of your problems is the subs. Not wanting to get up and do anything. Not interacting with your family, the stress and anxiety and your hair falling out. I was the same way on oxycodone. I contemplated suicide 10-15 times a day. I look back now after being clean 3 months and I don't even know who that women was?!?? I was exactly like you! It's the drug,it messes with our minds. You're not in your right head of minute of everyday! Get to after care and get weened off. Get your life back for you and your family,because one day it will be to late....and what a beautiful waste that will be!!

[clean_in_ks]

Oh sweet Maria....I can't tell you how GLAD I am to see you back!!!!!

First and foremost:  there is ALWAY hope!  and there IS a way for you to successfully get off the subs.  

I understand what you what you are saying about just trading the H for subs....but lets talk about some positives you may have forgotten.  You are 931 days heroin FREE (that's 31 months.....just over 2-1/2 years!!).  You are no longer lying, cheating or sneaking around.  You and your hubby have regained some trust in your relationship that you didn't have when you were using heroin.  You have learned that without at least "some" form of personal involvement with other recovering addicts....you feel alone, depressed and apathetic once again.  These are all GOOD things!

You changed sub dr's and had gotten down to 4-6 mg of sub, right?  You were really liking this new sub dr when you first posted about him/her because you were asked to journal and you felt like someone cared, let you talk and listened to you.  Has that changed?  Are you not encouraged by this sub dr to get involved in your own recovery.....learn new coping life skills.....make some female friends in recovery that you can relate to?

I am concerned about your weight, your depression and your hair falling out.  You are right, Maria....it's TIME for a CHANGE!  
There are many people who have been on subs longer than you that have successfully tapered.  Slowly....with help, counseling, groups, meetings...but not ALONE.  Your kiddos are 2.5 yrs older now and while I totally understand why you feel like you have swapped out one addiction for another.....there ARE some things that are different...and better...and now it's time to formulate a plan from where you are TODAY.....one baby step at a time.  The idea of going back on H or switching to methadone to get off the sub is CRAZY, Maria!!  That's how our addict minds work when they aren't being re-trained to think "recovery".  If done slowly and correctly, there are people here on the forum that weaned off the sub with minimal discomfort.  I'm hoping they will read your post and chime in.

Please know you are not "too far gone".....you've just reached a new place and have done a wonderful thing today by reaching out and asking for help.
Sending you a HUGE hug......please keep posting...I care so much about you!  Connie

[dominosarah]

I am glad to see you back and posting.  You have alot going on but i really think you need to get your medical issues taken care of first.  Get to a good doctor who will get to the bottom of what is going on with you.  When you can get that figured out you will be able to get off the sub.  Right now i think your body is too run down.  You will get off the sub but first you need to get your body healthy.  Stick around maria.

[gnarly_1]

Hi  well after reading your post I agree with the others...time and time I say  just because you stop the drugs it is not the end but only the beginning of your recovery....long after the drugs stop your still left with the addict in your head and addictive thinking...N/A is the only progam that I know of that treats the addict in your head  something you need desperately now as for the sub  we have lots of members that have gotten off tapering takes time but what do you have to loose...nothing...we can help you with that  your not in a hopeless situation you still have your kids and husband to live for  you dont have to be clean to go to a meeting  you just have to have the desire to quit  please google a N/A meeting in your aera and  step out of your comfort zone and go  you will be plesently  suprized............................Gnarly........................

[NeverAgain127]

You've got some heavyweights here giving you great advice.  

I don't think I can add to it, except to say, that I got a chill down my spine reading your post...are you thinking of using heroin again?  

Please don't.  Don't go back.  You've hit a roadblock, and you're stuck, but believe it or not, you ARE better than you were.

I agree that:
1. You need a thorough psychical exam, including bloodwork.  Have your thyroid checked, and not just T3 and T4; ask for thyroid antibodies. Trust me.

2. You need therapy.  It will help you more than you realize.   Right now, I know you don't want to do ANYTHING.  It sounds like you have major clinical depression.   Force yourself, drag yourself, whatever it takes, but GO.

3. Anti-depressants might be a good idea; I'd ask your doctor for a referral to a psychiatrist for a med evaluation.

4.  Meetings.  This is where you need to be; even every fiber of your being DOESN'T want to.  You need to just plant yourself in a chair and listen.  

There is hope.  You will get better.  Just put one foot in front of the other, and do the right things. Go thru the motions of doing the right things; I PROMISE you...if you do, your life will improve.

Stay with us.  

Hugs,
-Robin

[CRSeaside]

I read your post twice to try and really understand.
So here goes: your general health needs attention. For the short term I'd advise you to stay on the low dose subs. However, you need to get a complete physical examination.
  The food you eat needs to be looked into. Are you doing what you know is right? Whole grains, lean protein, plenty of fresh vegetables and fruit. You won't feel better until you start nourishing your body.
  What about your spirit? Are you attending meetings every day? That should be a number 1 priority. Doesn't matter. AA, NA support groups thru NAMI.
Even bible study groups. Point is you must take care of yourself. You will feel better, getting cleaned up, getting out of the house and meeting with others who have compassion and understanding.
  I would also recommend seeing a psychologist. Someone with training in CBT. Be proactive in your own life. You have a lot to live for. Your beautiful children. A loyal husband. Show you love them by doing something for yourself. Force yourself to go for you check up and to the meetings. Every single time it will get easier. After you do the same thing for 21 days it becomes a habit.
  Once you're eating right, exercising, seeing a therapist, then make your decision with the prescribing Dr regarding the taper process off the subs.
You have a lot of preliminary work to accomplish first. I want success for you and your family. Please keep posting. Maxy

[msdelight]

In a more gentle vein, after 3 years on subs I would think the doctor would help and encourage you to wean down and get off. All I know about subs, other than some doctors make tons of money prescribing them, is that they are supposed to be used short term and in conjunction with some kind of program. Sounds like you got the short end of the stick. Many sub experienced members will tell you when its ok to jump off after tapering,  not specificly but enough to know what is safe. My heart goes out to you as you sound like you are wasting away and missing your life and your families too. Tell that doctor you want OFF. Make him taper you properly and help when you jump with an AD and a few Valium to get you through. You can do this honey, you can! And without methadone. If you trade up again it will just be the same old problem.  Please don't be sad, and eat something you are too thin.  You will need all your energy to do this. I believe in you. You must believe in yourself.  Welcome back. Love, MsD

[jifmoc]

Hey there. How long have you been on subs in total? And the BIG question: what is the aftercare you are doing?

Yes, you traded one addiction for another. And going on methadone would be doing that again. You say only for "a little while" but guess what? Us addicts can't do that despite our best intentions.

I was thinking while reading your whole post that is sounds like this woman hasn't learned how to live sober. You saying that the thought of being off subs terrifies you made that clear. Living life, real life is our long term work, not switching around different opiates!

Lemme tell you, it's only too late for you when you cease to breathe. So since you're breathing you have EVERY chance to change your life. That is the addiction talking: "I'll never be happy, clean, normal...whatever."

Stick around and keep posting. You'll get so many kicka$$ responses from  others:)