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Detoxing pain meds./opiates
About 6+ months ago, I began a post about wanting to quit taking pain (opiates) meds. It hasn't been going very well!
There were just too many "rescue" days when I had to go back to my original dosing schedule and I am feeling defeated! It's either that I have too much pain and can get nothing done (my rt. wrist has had reconstructive surgey back 9/18/13 and it STLL hurts like hades! I'm using "Salonpas" otc patches and they work pretty well.
But, if there's anyone else trying to detox, I'd like to get together online, here, not to give advice per se, but what has worked for other people. I am finding that there's a BIG "mental" component, and I really fear the detox. I get just a day into it and I collapse. I AM trying to write it all down ....but there's no progress. Misery loves company!!
I have NO support from anyone here...not my BF, he doesn
t know what to think...all me see-sawing...cluck cluck cluck! CHICKEN!!...Help?
I see they moved your post. I thought you were hesitant to post here - but this is the right place for the type of help you are seeking.
This community is very supportive and has much more knowledge in weaning and detox than we do at pain management.
Please feel free to return to Pain Management for any questions regarding your pain. As Phil offered - you may also message me.
Best of Luck,
~Tuck
This community is very supportive and has much more knowledge in weaning and detox than we do at pain management.
Please feel free to return to Pain Management for any questions regarding your pain. As Phil offered - you may also message me.
Best of Luck,
~Tuck
Dear ChannahBrancha.
The good folks at MedHelp notified me that your post was again active and has been moved to the Detoxing from Pain Meds forum, which is not my usual sandbox.
First, thank you ChannahBrancha for keeping us informed. We are concerned about you, and would like to help you if we can.
If it is your decision to stop you opioid therapy, then I support you. I believe that I shared with you that I have some experience with this in my own pain care.
With long experience, I understand the problems of this therapy, and resonate with your desire to be done with it.
Let me share that in my experience, and in the medical literature, weaning slowly is the best way to go.
When you've been dependent at a relatively high dose of opioids for a length of time, then safety demands that you wean slowly.
And when I say slowly, I mean 10% a month, or longer.
Many physicians do not agree with weaning this slowly.
Please remember that I am not a doctor. I am a pain patient, just like you.
But I've been at this for so many years now that I sometimes feel like a pain doctor, so please excuse me if I sound like one at times. I am not offering medical advice, and my suggestions sometimes fly in the face of medical wisdom.
So please use a good deal of skepticism when considering my advice. I am not a doctor. What works for me may not work for you. But I would not mislead you intentionally.
So please, wean slowly and stay comfortable. Use medical means of support, like the clonidine, the lomotil or lopramide for GI distress (I prefer good old fashioned Pepto Bismal), the decongestants for runny nose -- whatever it takes.
I find that small amounts of benzodiazepenes are useful, in particular, clonazepam for anxiety. Some people like alprazolam (Xanax), but that medication has certain problems -- a short half life, a slight buzz that can instigate a psychological dependence. You don't want to trade one drug for another, but for some people, feeling good enough to sleep during withdrawal may not be a bad thing.
But nothing in my experience helps with those myoclonic tics -- the restless legs, as they are called, that can come on like electric shocks in the legs and arms, especially when you're trying to sleep.
They are insidious. The seem to wait until I am just falling asleep, and then -- ZAP. They wake me up. It's like torture.
Clonidine and benzos might help, but not for me. I need to move when this happens. Exercise is sometimes the only way to get relief.
Now I'm going to something controversial. Addiction doctors and recovery people will disagree with me on this. They'll tell you I'm either the Devil incarnate, or that I'm terribly mislead.
Take that little bit of opioid of a different stripe and allow yourself to get a few hours of sleep. For example, if you were dependent on Fentanyl patches, this is a phenylpiperadine type of opioid. So try a small dose of morphine, or oxycodone to sleep.
Likewise, if you were on an opiate, like morphine or codeine, or a semi-synthetic opiate like oxycodone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, etc, then try a 5mg (small) dose of methadone to get some sleep.
Always use a different class of opioid that uses different metabolic pathways from the medicine you are most dependent on.
Unfortunately, we've lost a few opioids over the years. We used to have more choices. I was able to break an oxycodone dependence in 1991 with the help of an old addiction specialist, by using a combination of propoxyphene and chlordiazepoxide.
Today, we don't use propoxyphene anymore because it has a toxic metabolite.
We're too focused on safety, imho. The amount of propoxyphene I needed for a month to detox and settle down a 60mg / day oxycodone dependence in 1991 was irrelelvant. My liver is just fine today. In fact, I used propoxyphene in its compound with acetaminophen called Darvocette-N for years in the 1980s when I had only mild-moderate pain.
And I'm here, still alive, to tell you about it.
My wife's grandmother used to say you can eat a peck of dirt before it kills you. The same goes for a healthy liver and propoxyphene.
Remember -- this is NOT medical advice. Just the ravings of an old desert rat whose brain is rotted from excessive sheep dip inhalation.
ChannahBracha -- we care for you and want the best for you. Please message me personally (right click my name, open my profile, and send me a Message.) I will come and help.
God bless you. Withdrawal is a time for positive self-talk, belief in miracles, and prayer.
May angels visit your bed nightly and softly whisper sweet soothing secrets in your ear as you sleep.
My advice is free -- it is not medical. I don't wish to treat you -- only to help you find peace.
May God bless you and keep you in His arms.
Best wishes.
The good folks at MedHelp notified me that your post was again active and has been moved to the Detoxing from Pain Meds forum, which is not my usual sandbox.
First, thank you ChannahBrancha for keeping us informed. We are concerned about you, and would like to help you if we can.
If it is your decision to stop you opioid therapy, then I support you. I believe that I shared with you that I have some experience with this in my own pain care.
With long experience, I understand the problems of this therapy, and resonate with your desire to be done with it.
Let me share that in my experience, and in the medical literature, weaning slowly is the best way to go.
When you've been dependent at a relatively high dose of opioids for a length of time, then safety demands that you wean slowly.
And when I say slowly, I mean 10% a month, or longer.
Many physicians do not agree with weaning this slowly.
Please remember that I am not a doctor. I am a pain patient, just like you.
But I've been at this for so many years now that I sometimes feel like a pain doctor, so please excuse me if I sound like one at times. I am not offering medical advice, and my suggestions sometimes fly in the face of medical wisdom.
So please use a good deal of skepticism when considering my advice. I am not a doctor. What works for me may not work for you. But I would not mislead you intentionally.
So please, wean slowly and stay comfortable. Use medical means of support, like the clonidine, the lomotil or lopramide for GI distress (I prefer good old fashioned Pepto Bismal), the decongestants for runny nose -- whatever it takes.
I find that small amounts of benzodiazepenes are useful, in particular, clonazepam for anxiety. Some people like alprazolam (Xanax), but that medication has certain problems -- a short half life, a slight buzz that can instigate a psychological dependence. You don't want to trade one drug for another, but for some people, feeling good enough to sleep during withdrawal may not be a bad thing.
But nothing in my experience helps with those myoclonic tics -- the restless legs, as they are called, that can come on like electric shocks in the legs and arms, especially when you're trying to sleep.
They are insidious. The seem to wait until I am just falling asleep, and then -- ZAP. They wake me up. It's like torture.
Clonidine and benzos might help, but not for me. I need to move when this happens. Exercise is sometimes the only way to get relief.
Now I'm going to something controversial. Addiction doctors and recovery people will disagree with me on this. They'll tell you I'm either the Devil incarnate, or that I'm terribly mislead.
Take that little bit of opioid of a different stripe and allow yourself to get a few hours of sleep. For example, if you were dependent on Fentanyl patches, this is a phenylpiperadine type of opioid. So try a small dose of morphine, or oxycodone to sleep.
Likewise, if you were on an opiate, like morphine or codeine, or a semi-synthetic opiate like oxycodone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, etc, then try a 5mg (small) dose of methadone to get some sleep.
Always use a different class of opioid that uses different metabolic pathways from the medicine you are most dependent on.
Unfortunately, we've lost a few opioids over the years. We used to have more choices. I was able to break an oxycodone dependence in 1991 with the help of an old addiction specialist, by using a combination of propoxyphene and chlordiazepoxide.
Today, we don't use propoxyphene anymore because it has a toxic metabolite.
We're too focused on safety, imho. The amount of propoxyphene I needed for a month to detox and settle down a 60mg / day oxycodone dependence in 1991 was irrelelvant. My liver is just fine today. In fact, I used propoxyphene in its compound with acetaminophen called Darvocette-N for years in the 1980s when I had only mild-moderate pain.
And I'm here, still alive, to tell you about it.
My wife's grandmother used to say you can eat a peck of dirt before it kills you. The same goes for a healthy liver and propoxyphene.
Remember -- this is NOT medical advice. Just the ravings of an old desert rat whose brain is rotted from excessive sheep dip inhalation.
ChannahBracha -- we care for you and want the best for you. Please message me personally (right click my name, open my profile, and send me a Message.) I will come and help.
God bless you. Withdrawal is a time for positive self-talk, belief in miracles, and prayer.
May angels visit your bed nightly and softly whisper sweet soothing secrets in your ear as you sleep.
My advice is free -- it is not medical. I don't wish to treat you -- only to help you find peace.
May God bless you and keep you in His arms.
Best wishes.
1 Comments
Thanx so very much, Phil. It is Feb. 2016 and I am still down to 1-2 10/325 percs./day. When I try to stop even that minute amount I just get SO IRRITABLE, biting peoples heads off...can't get comfortable in my own skin, can't sleep...etc. I need Clonipin and the only way for me to get it is thru a shrink and that's a hassle because I have to tell him I'm having anxiety.....and yes I am...but....
Shalom
Shalom
Hi, Channa! Like Tuck said, if you want some support and some tips as you get off the pain meds, the substance abuse forum would help you.
Here's the link, and if you just post a new question by clicking on the green box at the top of the forum, many in our forum will help you with opiate w/drawals. Hope to see you there:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Addiction-Substance-Abuse/show/77
Here's the link, and if you just post a new question by clicking on the green box at the top of the forum, many in our forum will help you with opiate w/drawals. Hope to see you there:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Addiction-Substance-Abuse/show/77
Hi Channah! :)
I'm so sorry for your struggle that you are going thru, trying to get off of your prescription meds for your numerous pin issues. I'm glad that you are on the PM (Pain Management) Forum but I truly feel to be able to get the help you are seeking the Substance Abuse Forum would give e you the support that you are seeking. I know the name itself gives the stigma that you are abusing your meds but that's just NOT the case as I, as well as other members on here such as Tuckamore and Philnoir know! You have always taken them responsibly and have nothing to be ashamed of. We have had MANY people on here that have either reduced their intake of meds or done what you are in the process of doing and when they do they use our great Substance Abuse Forum. They are WONDERFUL and COMPASSIONATE on their Forum. They will give.you loving support EVERY STEP OF THE WAY! So PLEASE don't be stigmatized by the name as, BELIEVE ME, they are there for EVERYBODY. You will find exactly what you are looking for. Not only that but you won't just have 1 coach, you will have MANY coaches. SOMEONE will ALWAYS be there for you. If there was a cure for my DDD (Degenerative Disc Disease) and I could stop my meds, that's EXACTLY where I'd go for help when I needed it to help me in getting off my meds.
PLEASE know that you are ALWAYS welcome on the PM Forum also. We hope you will be an active member on the PM Forum also as a contributing member. Unfortunately, you're very well acquainted with CP ( Chronic Pain ) and that's what we're all about. With your knowledge, you would be very helpful in giving support to our members that suffer so much with pain daily.
I wish you the very best in your quest to being able to get off you pain meds. I HOPE you will come back and keep us updated on your progress.
BEST OF LUCK, Channa! ..... Sherry :)
I'm so sorry for your struggle that you are going thru, trying to get off of your prescription meds for your numerous pin issues. I'm glad that you are on the PM (Pain Management) Forum but I truly feel to be able to get the help you are seeking the Substance Abuse Forum would give e you the support that you are seeking. I know the name itself gives the stigma that you are abusing your meds but that's just NOT the case as I, as well as other members on here such as Tuckamore and Philnoir know! You have always taken them responsibly and have nothing to be ashamed of. We have had MANY people on here that have either reduced their intake of meds or done what you are in the process of doing and when they do they use our great Substance Abuse Forum. They are WONDERFUL and COMPASSIONATE on their Forum. They will give.you loving support EVERY STEP OF THE WAY! So PLEASE don't be stigmatized by the name as, BELIEVE ME, they are there for EVERYBODY. You will find exactly what you are looking for. Not only that but you won't just have 1 coach, you will have MANY coaches. SOMEONE will ALWAYS be there for you. If there was a cure for my DDD (Degenerative Disc Disease) and I could stop my meds, that's EXACTLY where I'd go for help when I needed it to help me in getting off my meds.
PLEASE know that you are ALWAYS welcome on the PM Forum also. We hope you will be an active member on the PM Forum also as a contributing member. Unfortunately, you're very well acquainted with CP ( Chronic Pain ) and that's what we're all about. With your knowledge, you would be very helpful in giving support to our members that suffer so much with pain daily.
I wish you the very best in your quest to being able to get off you pain meds. I HOPE you will come back and keep us updated on your progress.
BEST OF LUCK, Channa! ..... Sherry :)
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