I finally admit it, I need help. Re: Opiate Withdrawal

[MedicineMax]

What should I do for Norco/Hydrocodone withdrawal?

I have a very import question and situation that I desperately could use help with resolving. I have been on strong narcotic pain relievers for some time (Norco 10/325 last several months, over the past 2 years from Oxy, to hydromorphone to good ol' Tramadol) and my doctor unexpectedly quit refilling my prescription today without notice or reason. I am okay with that, but what makes it so devastating and urgent is that neither he or his nurse contacted me about this decision, and he did not sit down with me in order to make a plan to get off of this strong medication. I found out through the pharmacist. She is concerned too. I was taking no less than 70mg of NORCO per day, which is significant. I don't feel addicted to the pills, but my body does feel dependent. (this might be total bull ****, I'm' trying to figure it out.. I've never taken a pill not prescribed to me as I've had 3 surgeries over 2 years.)

Here is my situation. I  will be quitting this medicine cold turkey as I have no pills left being prescribed from the doctor, and what I do have I took it all at once so there wouldn't be any more lying around and that I'll fall asleep on them in hopes of not enjoying the large amount-7 at once. I am certain that cold turkey is not the way to go about this and feel that it is extremely dangerous. What would you advise me to do? Should I try to get Suboxone? Where do I go? The hospital ER? Are there clinics for addicts? Well the withdrawal require hospitalization? Will they treat me there? Or, where do I go to help me wean off of the medication with lower dosages on other medications, etc.? Hospital? I'm afraid that it will take too much time to get into a pain management clinic. As in, by the time things are most intense, the pain management will still be on a wait list. Are there emergency clinics? I feel my situation is extremely urgent because the detox has just began and the withdrawal is extremely dangerous and worrisome. I do not want to end up in the hospital which is most likely what will happen if untreated. It had been a long term use. The doctors at Methodist in August kept me on Suboxone whilst in the ward. Since the doctor and his nurse have abandoned me with no reason whatsoever (I never abused my medications, used them more than prescribed, etc.) I will be requesting a copy of my medical record immediately so that I can hopefully figure out what he was thinking. But, that is the least of my worries right now.

Treatment is most important.

Thank you for your help anyone!

And, like I said in AA many years ago (still sober)

My name is Max, and I am an addict.

[twolve]

Hey buddy, the forum is really slow this time at night so you will get a lot of posts tomorrow, but I wanted to let you know that you will honestly be ok. The amount of pills you have been taking is not as high as you think compared to most people on here..You will experience w/ds and they will not be fun, but you are not in any serious danger I promise you that..Going to the ER is not necessary unless you are dealing with a condition that you have had before the pills..Many people have quit cold turkey off of a much higher dose than you are currently on..Suboxone and Methodone are both tools to help people get off opiates but at the same time they open up a whole new bag of worms that you don't need..Read about the thomas recipe on the lower right side of the page to help ease withdrawals..it involves vitamins and amino acids..I will be here for you with any questions you have, you can send me a personal message or just post here and i will respond..I went cold turkey off oxys last summer and I am essentially doing the same thing again now as I had a relapse that lasted a few months..we can kinda do it together..i promise you will be ok my friend..

[MedicineMax]

Wow.. thanks a lot man. I feel the support and appreciate it. Yes, we can do this together.

My only problem is is that I still have the chronic pain (head injury), but I don't want to be on pills, drink or smoke pot anymore. Yet, I honestly think something is still needed.

Can Suboxone take care of both? If so, where do I go to get started on it? I've only taken it in the psych ward in August.

Thanks for the words of support.. means the world. Please stay in touch, I'm brand new to this and am still figuring out how it works.

Cheers.

[worried878]

Ur being forced to quit?  this was not ur decision//Ur in a bind so u r reaching out?

answer those 3 questions?

U r right...ur dose is easily quit CT/dangerous?  NO///not unless u r 95 years old with heart problems...if not CT from 70 mgs of narcs is not in anyway life threatening//if we were talking benzos it would be different...but we r talking bout a 70 mg hydro habit?  right?

positive thing i c here is ur dose is not high at all...an easy CT dose to quit if u can go thru 3-4 days of feeling flu-like..I was at 100 mgs a day and day 4 i felt pretty good////day 5 back at work...but i was sick and tired of being sick and tired..it was my decision..u r being cut off...so u were not really "in the mood" to quit..or maybe u are..i dont "feel" it by reading ur post
So u wanna know how to quit comfortably cos u have to do it due to lack of supply?  there is no easy way out..read the thomas recipe in the health pages as it will help u with wds...as u will have physical wds probably...if the mental part follows/then come back here and let us know...doesnt sound like u r "over it"...so u have a bit of aftermath following u..ur supply is gone...but ur addiction  is not gone just cos ur supply is gone...u will find another supply..u will not just "STOP"  but this forum is always here....may be awhile/or it may be now//physical wds r so very easy compared to the mental aspect..if u look elsewhere for pills...then post promptly..lots of support here

[MedicineMax]

I suppose I can understand being misunderstood and you not following me, but I'm sure there's a tone of assholeness and "not part of the club" to your post. You should give people the benefit of the doubt before assuming the worst. A lot of people hate being sober, might be you. Might not be.

As per your questions: I am choosing to quit (I could easily go to another doctor and get pills, I have a hospital release to pain management and all the documentation to convince a doc in one sitting to put me on something and I chose Norco over Oxy bc I am in AA and wanted to be on the weakest effective amount), because the doctor didn't refill my script I have no choice but to use the cold turkey method, that makes me a bit nervous (I do have darvons and tramadols, but those are going to be tossed right now in the trash). Yes, of course I'm in a bind, aren't we all? And, that is why I'm reaching out. I have no problem whatsoever never taking an opiate again in my life as I have been getting concerned that I might have an addiction since it's so many pills and for years now, but I do have a problem with a withdrawal that is harder than it has to be.

I do take 3mg total of Klonopin per day, but that is part of my psychiatric medication regimen and I will not be quitting that, I do not see it as a problem, nor do my doctors or family. My pdoc will probably be calling in stuff to get me off the opiates. Maybe the klonopin itself will help with the withdrawal? That would be a godsend.

[worried878]

ur right...the klonopin at 3 mgs a day will help///if u have been on this dose for yrs//then it will not help as u r used to this dose of benzos each day/not a drug u can taper like the narcs/and a very high dose of klonopin for anyone to be on/but as stated/u need it for other issues..and this is not the problem u r here seeking help for/dont even attempt to CT from 3 mgs of klonopin a day/that would be deadly as it is a high dose of benzos that can not be CT-d
U* asked if it was dangerous to CT off the 70- mg narc dose...well u did not ask but u seemed concerned/and yes..i realize u can go shop around and find another Dr to RX narcs to u..anybody can til they get caught
I am siorry u took my post so defensively..I have been on this forum for years..only to help..I call it how i c it..and I am sure lots of times I am wrong...i called what I felt..I felt/read/u were in deep doo doo cos ur dr cut u off...doesnt mean u can not Dr shop cos u can...u chose not to and u r ready to quit??? u r afraid of physical wds from a relatively low dose of narcotics in the scheme of things...you basically pointed out the fact that ur Dr cut u off....u emphasized the fact that u r very afraid od physical wds....and most r...but that is not the whole hard part of this cruddola/being addiction..u be safe..i will be careful not to post again on one of ur posts..I am often to "black and white" for many...dont do the grey well...we all need different types of feedback

u be safe tho...and always move forward

[worried878]

BTW...there r not many opn this forum for any length of time that "hate" being sober
There r not really a whole lot of people who even post past a month being sober....but there r those who stay..and post...to help..with well over a year of being "sober"  if we hated it..I would doubt we would stay here to help others along the way...we r not "assholes"  we stay to help/people dont always like what we have to say...but some of us call it like we see it....and I am sorry if I called it wrong..I am here to help..that is all...not to judge...as I have no right to even attempt to judge anyone...nite

[leeisgettingclean]

hey I just want you to know that I read your post and find them sencere and nice. I think sometimes in the beginning of getting clean our emotions are all out of wack...clearly the case here.
Now to answer the question, your w/ds are gona suc* but not gona kill you. I do not think Suboxane should be tried untill all other options fail you. I would only go to E.R. if it really came to that, and if you go dont be shocked when you are not treated like you just walked in off the red carpet....they do not always treat an addict great in the E.R....Anyways I am glad you are getting clean

[dominosarah]

I have seen many come on this forum who were forced to quit myself and worried only called it as she saw it.  She is not the enemy and she is a good one to have on your side.  She knows a ton about this addiction and works her program and is a very big part of this forum.  Anyways welcome to the forum!!!  I too think that Sub should be the last resort.  Look at the health pages on the right hand side of the page and check out the Thomas Recipe and the amino acids.  These will help you going thru wd.  Get yourself some Gatorade and bananas. Take warm baths or showers if you are achy.  You can do this!!!  Keep posting.........sara

[sonyaaddict]

Hey my name is Sonya. I am an addict. The heading of your posts reads that you finally admit it. Well do you. You have got to have an open mind to get through this. It is really a leap of faith. I believe you are addicted reading your first post. Please think about treatment. It was hard but worth it.  Suboxone is an opiate. I have been on it. Its addictive. You will go through w/d's to get off. Be careful and best of luck!!!!

[peaceinknowing]

Let's get back to the post. A member like ourselves need help right now. Like Lee said, we all know what it was like when we first came on the boards with the thought in the backs of our minds that there will no longer be any pills within our posession. Emotions get tangled with our thoughts on what physical reactions lie ahead of us when facing the dreaded word of withdrawl.

You've come to the right place for help. This site will become your saving grace like it has for so many other members. I know I was one of those members as well...and let me say that I admire you for coming out publically on the internet posting something that says you admit that you need help. That's the first step, so congrats.  :)

Like Sara stated, getting hot baths as much as possible will truly help. Try and stay hydrated as much as possible with water or light juices. Try and stay away from orange juice for a little bit because of the acidity that it contains. Bananas are good for RLS but won't cure it. You have to try and keep in mind that everyone's different when it comes to who goes through what during times like these. Post as much as you can here on the site. Getting your mind off the physical aspect of things will truly help you through the recovery as well. I posted what seemed like all day everyday and it really helped, except for when I was running for the bathroom every so often. You're more than likely going to have diarreah. This and the lack of sleep was one of the worse parts of the WD that I had to go through. I did my entire detox at home for 4-5 days without the assistance of any other medication, so just know that it is safe to do. If you feel that Suboxone is the right path for you to travel down, then speak with a doctor about this one on one. I wasn't strong enough for that.

I wish you all the best and hope you stick around the forums! PLEASE keep posting here and be reminded that there are so many members here that are willing to help you through this right now. I too had a few members "assume" things about me when I first started to post here, but they will, in the end, become your saving grace and guardian angel. Best of luck!

[wanting2stop]

Hey Max...

How are you feeling today? Today is my 7th day sober and I am feeling really good. Everyone of course has different circumstances. I had a close friend of mine who also took vicodin also take klonopin for anxiety. I too have suffered from anxiety but in my case it was triggered by the vicodin. It was giving me fear/worry/anxiety all the time. I never had anxiety 7 years ago..

I was also very nervous about withdrawl. I have used vicodin everyday for the last 7 years. I know the feeling of what if? What if I can't handle it? What if I have to go the ER? What will my family, friends think etc...

In regards to your comment about drinking, pills & smoking herb etc. This is just my opinion and many here may not agree with me but I am going to say it anyways...

I would not try to quit everything all at once. I would try to stay away from caffeine, sugar, alchohol & the pills (the caffeine will induce anxiety and sugar will cause roller coaster ride). Marijuana is treated to many patients all the time for pain and other medical purposes. It will also help with the nausea during withdrawl. Take one step at a time and have your best friend / wife or family member help you thru the process. They love you and will help you the best they can.

Keep posting and remember 1 day at a time. If you think too far ahead it feels too overwhelming..

I would also recommend consulting with your psychiatric doctor. He/she best knows your mental condition. With you wanting to stop pills, herb, alchohol (everything) this may not be advised pending your psychiatric condition(s). I know that head trauma can cause many different condition(s) etc. Give the doctor a call and get a professional opinion in regards to all of your psychiatric conditions. Perhaps with him/her knowing you want to quit will discuss this with your pain doctor and put you on a taper program that best suites you. Also inform him/her if you still use marijuana. Tell her/him everything. This I think will help you with all the worry...

We all have different circumstances...
Remember we are always here if you want to talk..
Great job for posting to the site. That is HUGE!

Stay focused and in time you will be free from all of this!

[SensibleInSarnia]

You don't have a "disease." You don't have "personality defects." Sorry, AA and NA ...  you have a nasty benzo habit which you can deal with, once you get the other bits under control.

Don't shift the blame for what you didn't want to happen ... long row to hoe ...

[CATUF]

How are you qualified (by experience, training and/or edecuation) to make such assertions?

What's the downside of an addict believing they have a disease, if in fact they don't?

What's the downside of an addict believing they do not have a disease, if in fact they do?

Is blame or fault relevant with respect to addiction and/or recovery?

CATUF
1572

[MedicineMax]

Thank you all so much for your help and support. All of you have given me great advice and lots of excellent tips. I no longer feel as afraid or alone. I feel that if I have an important, pressing question, all I have to do is post it here and y'all will help me.

Because I have such chronic pain, I mean it is bad.. I have had a SEVERE head injury and there are hardened arteries in my brain.

Am I doing the right thing quitting the pain meds? How am I going to be pain free or manage my pain? I feel like there is no way to "win"

I am very nervous and scared. I don't want the head pain and I don't know what keeps me sober, yet keeps me out of pain.

Makes me cry this is so hard and stressful :)

[MedicineMax]

Also, I am still taking pills because I talked to my doctor today and he doesn't want me to go cold turkey or wean me off totally yet due to the head injury and pain.

I AM ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED THAT I AM SITTING HERE STILL TAKING PILLS!

I wish my frustration could be understood. I want to quit but my doctor won't let me per say, wtf do I do? He said without the pills the pain will land me in the ER.
I don't know what to do our think. ******.

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

Are we talking GP here or Neurologist?  That might make a difference in my opinion. But I currently feel that you should not cold turkey the pills. You should probably try and take them "as needed" as opposed to on a time schedule. And with the idea of getting completely off them when you and the doc are comfortable with that. If you and the Doc disagree about when you are ready to quit the narcs you may always get another opinion. The real bottom line is that the narcotics are not good maintenance medications for anything. Its just a matter of time before many people exposed to them steadily develop a problem. Have you discussed an anti anxiety med, perhaps a benzo, to use when you arent in solid pain but do need something?

[wanting2stop]

Glad to hear you are feeling better. I am glad you spoke with your Doctor(s) etc. Hopefully they will get you on a taper system that will be easier. Over time you can take less and less so the withdrawl symptoms will not be that bad.

Keep posting & remember everyone here is on you side.

Also.. Do not beat yourself up for sitting there still taking pills. You made a big step by coming to this site and expressing your feelings and looking for help. By informing your doctors that you want to stop and get on a taper plan is a huge step.

I am not sure what the cost is but look into holistic healer(s) in your area. I don't think it could hurt? They use all natural supplements (Chinese / India traditions I think)

You WILL do this!

Give yourself a pat on the back.

[peaceinknowing]

I too suffer from pretty severe chronic pain. It might not be as bad as others have it, but I've been told by many doctors that they have no idea how I'm doing this without taking any sort of pain medication other than Motrin or other OTC medications.

You need to know that you're doing the right thing. You realized that this is starting to be an issue for you, so that's why you wish to put a halt to the pills. I mean sure...the fact that your doctor won't refill anything was another reason, but you seem genuine and sincere about your main reasoning for wanting to quit. I think you have to try and keep in mind that if your doctor thought it to be necessary to keep you on the pills because of the severity of the pain, then that's just what he would've done for you. BUT -- He refuses to refill them which should tell you something.

You're doing the right thing. Nothing negative can come from getting off the pills for good.

[worried878]

Alsao a chronic painer...titanium plates in my neck..discs that are gone..but pain is pain..and always real for the person...only problem with narcs is they were never meant for long term use due to tolerence...but not everyone is an addict...they can use for pain without a mental addiction...we feel like everyone who takes pain pills ends up like us..but it is not so,,most can take narcotics without addiction or abuse...we r in the minority...chronic pain plus being prone to addiction suk....cos we cant use successfully for pain//a true addict can not/not saying u can not but only that a true addict is not usually successful with pain pills as a rule...and only the person who is this position knows for sure...no one else can guess the extent of someones addiction/nor whether they even have an addiction..only the person knows...and if it is true it can begin to gnaw at ur inner self..which is a good sign///some never let it get to them and keep going and goin but they r going NOWHERE in reality..a vicious cycle that is hard to getout of

For me..the emotional pain of using..worrying bout how many I had, where i would get more  etc...caused me more pain than my screwed up spine did..stress aggravates my pain/always have..and at the end i was not using them for pain..i was using them like an AD..then i was using them to make it thru the day//but a deep depression set in and I could never feel the way i did before..my high was gone..and i was left with a person i didnt know anymore..ME

Flushing pills was empowering for me..making a plan/tho i had failed before trying to taper many times...the plan plus aftercare helped me/I had to CT cos i couldnt taper successfully/..I just know for the rest of my life i have to be careful//i am fine til a tragedy occurs..then my old firend/really my old enemy/will call my name...my poor coping mechanisms try to kick in..as long as life is hunky dory this doesnt happen..I have realized as of late//that we I tend to go overboard on things..impulsive by nature..often my own worst enemy...even a person can become ur drug...scary for me but i realize that now

Day by day is all we can do...when and if u feel it is time to let the pills go..u will if u want it bad enuf...people start contemplating this decision long before they actually do it..not many wake up one day and think "I am suddenly over this addiction crud and I am done right this second"  It is a long process for many..realizing the problem is there/but alternating with periods of denial and not caring as many find resons why they need to continue using...but for many it will gnaw at their soul..it starts taking a chunk of ur inner self each day..each failed taper..each relapse...then the person realizes they r just not having fun anymore...or that the pills r not worth the pain relief they provide/at the end it is often not even about pain relief anymore..it is a sickness for addicts

There is a pain forum here that is wonderful...many of them r on narcotics and deal with it successfully...many may be physically dependent//most there r not addicts//altho some possibly r..it is a totally different concept on that forum as far as pain relief drugs than here..but i post there at times cos sometimes i need advice on alternative modes of pain relief...and they r very knowledgable..many here started on pills for pain relief too..we just dont do well at it...anyway, not a bad idea for a chronic painer to go there and read, learn and post

wishing u the best...life is short..we gotta make the best out of what we have and the time we have here on earth..and no one  will judge u there nor here..i dont/unless i have walked in someones shoes for a while/i have no right to judge anyone..I am an addict...what right do I have to judge anyone..I am an addict but I am also Laura..a person who has to survive, work, and be as happy as I can be..in spite of afflictions i have..we just gotta do our best..that is all we can do

[MedicineMax]

I cannot thank you all enough for your insight, personal stories, advice and everything and anything. I think I have figured out my problem. I wasn't yet a slave or addict to my pain pills, but I know it was coming any day. It frightened me. Even though so many on here have a way different addiction.. to me taking 5+ Norco 10/325's a day for months and no end in sight was horrifying.

Does anyone know if I can just show up at the hospital and ask to be admitted for detoxification?

Or, can my doctor check me in?

Has anyone done anything like that before?

Also, what about the treatment where they put you under and cleanse you.. any details on that? Or, success stories?

I am SOOOO committed to getting off of the Norco, yet I am still sitting here taking them. It's heart breaking. This online forum is a godsend, I just wish I could give someone a hug or look into their eye as they say, "everything will work out and be fine."

I appreciate all of you. All input helps. And, please know I am here for all of you too. Send me a message, use messenger, whatever.. no problem is greater than any other.

XOXO

[NautyOne]

99.99999999 % of us were forced to quit in one way shape or another.  Geez, man...talk about kick em in the groin when they are down.  It doesn't matter how he quits, rather that he quits!..

Max.....dont' let anyone misinform you that its an easy 3-4 days of flu-like symptoms, or that its easy because its only one persons idea of a low dose.  We all handle it differently, but we all get the same symptoms for the most part.  You are going to feel like the SWine Flu times 100.  What may be of concern is you mental health issues because withdrawal is not only physical but very much psychological too.  

Please call your psyc. and tell him/her what is happening.  Please!!!  CALL YOur Psych!!!

luv,
nauty..............

[MedicineMax]

Hi, thanks for your comments. You seem very realistic and reasonable. I also have Bipolar II and am being treated for it. I have already spoken with my shrink over email and she is very pleased I want to quit norco, but because of all of my hospitalizations for head pain she is very worried about pain. She suggested 800mg of advil 3 times a day.. who knows. She also referred me to a pain specialist. She pointed out I am very fortunate to be on klonopin, seroquel and trazadone because that will greatly help me through any WD. Thankfully, through email she can check on me everyday. I'm ready to do this!

[MedicineMax]

Hi Quickrick, thank you kindly for your reply and insight. I'm guessing you are heavy into NA? I've done AA and your lingo and mentality seems to be quite similar.

I appreciate your concern and suggestions. Means the world!

Thanks man.

[MedicineMax]

Wow! That is impressive. NA or AA? I find working the steps a little creepy because (i know this is so far fetched, but bare with me) they prepare you to die. You turn your life over to the care of god, you admit everything you've done wrong, you forgive yourself for it, and you have a a clean slate. In my opinion, it prepares you for "heaven" because you resolve all you past discrepancies.

In other words, it cleanses the soul and gives you a life of "god" or whomever your higher power is.