question about the addiction aspect of it..

[Karenlovesher4]

Since so many of you are so well versed on this and from experience and not just secondhand knowledge, im curious what one considers an "addict". I denied for SO LONG that I was an addict. The word and its synonyms (junkie etc.) Seemed so dirty and far fetched from who I am. I had a hard time thinking my situation was even comparable.  After all, when most think of addicts they picture inner city low class ppl who are homeless or with some similar story. At least had you asked me this two years ago, that would have been my definition.  So, when I actually became addicted it was easy for me to justify my habit bc that isnt me. Im a middle class mother of four with a nursing degree. Own my home have the cliche lifestyle.  Husband, house, career, kids, cat and dog. On the outside I felt like I didn't "fit", at least my stereotype, so surely I wasn't.  It is only recently I had that aha! Moment where I said, wait maybe I am an addict. But admitting this meant I am forced to learn how to spend the rest of my life learning to control my disease.  Just as I do my diabetes,  it will be a lifelong health issue. I have never been addicted to anything. I have always been scared of taking even benadryl before starting pain meds. I dont drink, only socially.  So, for me its hard to understand how I ended up here. I guess I ask bc I do think I am an addict, but I struggle with trying to explain to even myself how I became one.  When does it transition from dependency to addiction and how do you tell one from the other? That is how I explained it away for so long. I would say yes im reliant on them bc of there addictive qualities but an addict I am not. But that's certainly not true. I take them bc I enjoy them, its no longer about pain management.  But I struggle to figure out how I am addicted to these and yet ive never had addictive behavior with anything else ever in my life. How do I explain to myself im an addict and the differences so I can stop making excuses to everyone including and most importantly myself? What did yall define as an addict and learn how to admit to yourselves that you are one?

[PurrfectlyKrazy]

First off denial is a power thing.  That's the little voice in our head that says but I don't do this, I don't think this way, I don't live this way so therefore I can't be an addict.  This is SO typical

As with you, I barely drank.  I did experiment with some drugs when I was younger but just barely and I was never addicted to anything.  In fact by my mid-20's I didn't even smoke pot nor did I drink at all.  So, like you, I denied that I could possibly be addicted.  After all the doctors kept telling me oh you are just medically dependent.  I knew deep inside that dependent is saying the same thing as you need them therefore you are addicted to them.

I finally admitted it to myself when I started taking more than was prescribed to me and when I was taking them to get through the day not to get through the pain.

That's my story and I'm stickin to it ;-)  Hugz

[atthebeach]

Addiction does not discriminate. It crosses all socio-economic barriers, races,
Religions, nationalities, the old, the young, male and female.

Dependence happens to all who use substances for a length of time. Never use more than prescribed.
If depend when you stop using you go through withdrawals and don't think about or want to use again.
An addict typically runs out of their prescription early,, has drug seeking tendencies, hides their use, denies how much they take k e, lies to loved ones.
When they stop using and go through withdrawal their mind craves more.

[jifmoc]

Same here. Never addicted to anything, nor any addiction in my family. Prescribed hydrocodone in my early 30's for something minor and that was it. Took me a long time to admit I was an addict. But I am. I've learned in meetings it doesn't matter why or how we got here. And that the addictive thinking and obsession has been in us all along even if we never acted on it before. Besides, we don't have to know WHY to quit. We just have to keep doing what we are told by people w/ lots of clean time and we learn as we go.

You sound like you are very aware and that's good.

Where are you in your detox? Please remind me.

[lulu747]

I struggled with this too Karen.  Although I knew that addicts come in all shapes and sizes, socio economic back grounds, ages, and races- I wasn't sure I was one.
I'd been on pain meds for years legitimately.
But one day a voice deep in my soul screamed at me that I had to get off the drugs or I would be dead.
So I jumped cold turkey.
I never had a craving, or wanted to take pain meds ever again.
But I did realize through intensive aftercare and counseling that I had crossed the line from numbing physical pain, to emotional pain.
My now ex husband had begun abusing me verbally and sexually shortly after my third surgery.  By all accounts my issue was 'fixed' for the time being and I was in less pain physically...But I continued to take the meds anyway.  I needed to numb the deep psychic and emotional pain I was feeling.
I didn't run out early.  I didn't buy off the street.  But I did count my pills every month and I continued to tell my doctor I needed them when I probably didn't.
I had been heavily medicated for 6 years so getting clean and clear was a miracle to me.
I learned how to love myself and how to function in the world without ANY substance.
Of course, I think everyone enjoys the feeling of being a little bit high, or a little bit drunk, or whatever.  But when someone can't get through a day without taking some kind of mind altering substance- well that makes it an addiction.
And when we start lying to ourselves and those we love....Then we are in trouble.
I wear my addiction like a badge of honour.
It has taught me more about compassion and acceptance and self love than anything else.
I never craved drugs while withdrawing, and never craved them after.  But I do know that I live on a slippery slope.  When I had to start taking the meds again recently as I wait for surgery (next week) I knew I had to step up my support.
You are the only one that can answer this question for yourself.  The best way to do this is by engaging in aftercare-especially in a group setting-it will show you mirrors of yourself.
It will also show you that you are in good company (:
Lu

[clean_in_ks]

Karen, here are a couple of links that will further your understanding and maybe help answer your questions.

The first link has 6 tabs at the top..you can click on each of them and open MANY articles to read that will give you a LOT of information about addiction.  There are even short videos on the right hand side of each article that you can watch/listen to.  The topics range from "Understanding Addiction" to "Stigmas and Myths of Addiction".

http://www.hbo.com/addiction/

This last link is to a VERY long but EXCELLENT video.  The speaker is a doctor who was a flight surgeon in the military and found himself addicted....sent to prison...and has since devoted his life to understanding and educating others about addiction.  He is FUNNY and easy to listen to as well.  He actually uses visuals during his talk and explains how we can cross over from just being "dependent" to "addicted".  I absolute LOVE this video.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hz6-2NwRzE

Hope these links help you to further your understand and answer some of your questions.  They sure did help me~

  

[meegWpaw]

hey Karen interesting post.  I considered myself 'dependent' for a long time too when I was in my late 20's.  I think I knew I had crossed over to 'addicted' for a long time before I admitted it to myself.  I guess it's a personal decision, when you come to terms with it and what you call yourself.  Personally I have never liked the term "addict".  In fact, I still don't like to identify as that at 12 step meetings.  I think it is pejorative and carries a stigma with it, despite the  huge prevalence of addiction in our society, especially in recent years.  I think of myself as addicted and having the issue of addiction, but I do not like to identify as an 'addict', not just at meetings but everywhere, because I do not feel that being an addict is a good way of defining me.  in any case, the important part is getting and staying clean!  good luck  :)

[gnarly_1]

Hi ...these are all great answers if you really want to explore this you can...I suggest you try a few N/a meetings you will see first off there are people there from all walks of life and if your like me you will find when people share you will have similarity and be able to relate this is a progressive disease that wants to kill you and I agree denile is part of it trying ..I to was a very high functioning addict I lived in the 25% income in sales new cars new home kids wife but I to was under the spell of the pills...the only thing you had to say to me is..''I like the way they make me feel and it is no longer about pain management'' this statement tells me your a addict if you can try 3 meetings if the one you fist go to doesn't have many people ask those there about larger meeting in your area they will tell you where there at right now if you ketch this and are honest with yourself you can keep this treatable with a program like N/A.. if you choose not to you risk loosing everything in life that is precious to you it just is not worth risking it because you like the ''high'' google N/A meeting in your area.........Gnarly

[Karenlovesher4]

I wrote a LONG reply yesterday and poof! It disappeared.  So, let me try this again. I am one week into a taper my dr and I came up with. I stopped the ms contin cold turkey and cut my norcos in half. However I was rx'd 4 10/325 a day but I was probably using double that. So, im down to perscribed dose. Heres a question I  have though. I tried CT one day and failed. It  .  Was the worst 28 hours of my life. Even after i caved and took two I still felt like poop! It  .  Took a good three doses before I felt any better.  So, I THOUGHT taper,  though uncomfortable,  would be manageable.  Boy I was wrong.  Idk if its bc the ms contin was long acting but monday and most of yesterday I was fine. Since last night I havent been able to get out of bed other than to be sick, use the bathroom or take a hot shower. Since I quit the morphine ct and cut the dose of norco in half can it be causing this or am I getting sick? Our goal isv to have me off by Christmas.  My dr asked me what was one goal I wanted to achieve by being clean. I said to wake up Christmas morning and run straight to the tree with my four kids without having to make a pit stop to the pill bottle just to function first. He said ok that's what we will do then. I cant think of a better Christmas gift for me and my kids. I started mt own taper a week ago before thr drs appt this past monday. I told the dr I had cut my norco im half and just quit the ms contin.  He said THAT was quite a big starter jump but if I was tolerating it by all means dont  deter that progress we would start from there. It wasny entirely honest as I was still taking ms contin at night a bhai d 6 norco a day. But monday I went to that dose of ct ms contin anf 4 norco. So coukd these feelings be withdrawal?? I feel like death. And im worried I made to big a jump but I dont want to take two steps forward only to take three back and add either ms contin or more norco back. Feeling defeated today. . Oh btw If I can make it out of bed I have a na meeting tonight and ive also signed up for these classes they offer called accountability classes.  It allows u to answer to others in the same place as u and supporting one another. I feel like if I force myself to get up and go it will help with these feelings of defeat but what of I get there and cant stay off the toilet??

[Ejm7263]

I was a nurse. Trying to go back now. I went into recovery in 1996, still working making good money. Life happened, series of very bad events I coped like an addict. In 2007 I herniated a disc, downhill from there. I used everything to make the pain go away. 18 months ago I started taking only what the doctor prescribed. I'm on disability, have a house.....
Bottom line I didn't want to, couldn't sit on my couch and wait to die so 21 days ago I went ct off methadone. Best thing I ever did. I love AA/NA & am trying to learn again how to practice the 12 steps in all my affairs. This disease is so powerful. It lies to you. It wants you in its grip.
We can get off before we hit bottom but most of us have too.
So glad your here.

[VICourageous]

You will be fine..You will be around people who have walked in your shoes.
I think maybe you took a big jump but most of us could not do a taper either..I was on the Methadone that I got prescribed for pain for 12 years and 2 other meds that I c/t a little over 2 years ago..It was not easy at all because I have been using off & on for over 40 years..I too thought nothing of being a Addicted until I took my first opiate in the 90s..Most of the time I could walk away if I got burned out on it..BUT no way could I do this with the opiates..The opiates hit the brain in a very powerful way and in many areas too.
I would just keep pushing at where you are so you do not take a step backwards..This will pass and your brain will start to heal and get clearer and clear and you will feel much better physically..BUT it does take TIME & Patience and it differs from person to person because of many factors that play here..Like Age, how long you have used. how healthy you are, how many meds at one time did you come off of and how many MG did we get up too..There is so much but just give it time and ride it out..You will get better. I wish you the best and I will send you a prayer..Keep up the Support and try to venture out to as much as you can..I go to AA too even if I had not had a drink in over 10 or so years. Just sub one for the others. Be safe and keep your Guard Up at all times.
Bless

[atthebeach]

Yes you are in withdrawal.You totally cut out the ms contin and cut the norco in half. Hun that isn't a taper. That's cold turkey from the ms contin.
And a 50% drop of the norco. You can be off way before Christmas.
Treat your symptoms, hot baths with epsom salts.
drink Lots of fluids, bland foods, Tylenol, Imodium, take vitamins,
Magnesium/calcium/zinc tabs, eat bananas.
Keep moving forward. You will heal.
Keep the faith.
Sending prayers,
Debbie

[lulu747]

Yes that was a HUGE jump.  But you did it and I say roll with it.  If you're down to five norcos you could let yourself stabilize then start going down again.  At this rate you could be done by November 1st.  Don't go back, just surrender.  Tell yourself you've got a really bad flu and ride it out.  Maybe ask your doctor for a prescription for clonidine.  This is an old BP med commonly used in opiate detox.  I used it while I was tapering and then upped my dose (under dr's care) when I jumped.  I jumped off of 150 mg of oxy/nalexone and hydro.  I was pretty sick for a week and it took about 3 weeks for my sleep to return and the anxiety to die down, but I felt a MILLION times better once I got all the drugs out of my system.
Be prepared that you are going to feel pretty much full blown withdrawal.  If it were me (and I realize YOU are NOT me) I would bite the bullet on Friday and drop the rest and get through the worst over the weekend.  That way you are just that much closer to total recovery mode.  Remember, this is just MY opinion.  I feel like you are maybe just prolonging the misery taking those last five pills.  I held on to two pills at the end and only took one of them.  I felt worse and couldn't wait to have all the poison out of my body.
But it doesn't matter which way you get clean, it only matters that you do.
We are all here to support you....
Lu

[Karenlovesher4]

Dr called me in some clonodine.  I havent noticed anything significant yet other than the nausea has subsided some. I agree that I can be done way before Christmas but my dr wants me to take it slowwwwww bc of my health problems.  I have heart defects I was born with and defects bc of diabetes  I had a heart attack at 28. Im now 31. He didn't want me to stop taking them at all but I told him its not an of, it was going to happen with or without hos support so he's helping.  I remember wjen I first had to start pain management my transplant dr wanted me to start methadone therapy.  He said its better long term bc of no Tylenol or ibuprofen.  But at the time I associated the word methadone with the word junkie and refused. He reluctantly started norco and morphine and now im kinda glad after hearing the horror stories of coming off methadone.  But im so done with these they've taken over my life. I remember after my heart attack I was given a poor poor prognosis. I prayed to God every night if he would just let me live id never waste another day I have with my kids. Well, ive now wasted almost two years!!! To a pill!!! One more thing. I have severely low vitamin d and b12 whicj I understand speeds up the wd process. I take 60000 IU a week of vitamin d and get b12 shots monthly. However I feel like the b12 shot has given me energy but im so tired its like I dont have any get up and go so my skin feels like its crawling bc of the extra energy idk what to dp with.  Should I skip the shots for a couple of months??

[Karenlovesher4]

Hi! Its been a long time since I last posted.  Just thought id update. After a huge set back, I got flesh eating necratising fasciitis (flesh eating disease) in my arm from a cat scratch. Three surgeries, three weeks in the hospital and six weeks with a wound vac im finally getting better! I have stuck to my taper for the most part. And tomorrow is my jump date from 20mg of hydrocodone/ day. Im nervous/anxious/ready to get it over with! Trying to stay positive.  I know hell week begins tomorrow,  but I also know it can only be as bad as I let it and positive thoughts render positive outcomes.  Please keep me in your thoughts as I know its going to be hard.  I know it shouldn't be as bad as last time I ct off of 80mg of hydrocodone, but withdrawal, even at 20mg daily will still be unbearable!  Thanks in advance for all the good vibes I can get this week!

[Krissy_123]

Hi karen!!! And yay,for coming back and checking in. I've been off oxycodone for 17 days,and was on them 11 years. I honestly don't think I could have come this far without the help of all these wonderful ppl. I don't think your withdrawls should be very severe at all. But you probably will have some because your bodies use to it and you've been on it so long. I'm so glad you didn't give up after being sick. I hope by Christmas you are feeling better. I'm in the same boat. Took me a long time to admit I was an addict. I have two kids a good job, a great husband. My pills were always prescribed. But I AM AN ADDICT. and I'm ok with that now,I'm fixing it! :)

[Karenlovesher4]

Thanks! Im 16 hours in and can definitely tell ive missed my morning dose :/ sweaty and sneezy, but trying to stay positive.  Tonight wil be hard I know but I WILL get better!

[Alisa2014]

I love your comment. Addict is a label and therefore defines who you are. But you are more than an 'addict'....as you say, having the problem of addiction is just a part of you. It is not all of you.

[Merri123]

To me 20 mg is still high. I know it is only 2 10s but still. I would want to taper down to one. I tapered past that and walked off with mild wds. But still wds.

Yes you are going to feel the wds even at 20. And they won't be pleasant. Just take care of yourself. You have health problems that are a concern. We're here.

And sorry about the setback. Man that is so very scary. I am glad you got through it ok. Merry Christmas!!!!

[Karenlovesher4]

Yes it is still high. I feel it all just the same as at 80 mg so far, but again im only 17 hours in. It seems like the wds started quite fast this time though not as intense so im hoping that its gonna be like the weather lore coming in like a lion going like a lamb. Lol though im under no false pretenses, wds SUCKKK! I know staying positive is important though so I keep telling myself the sweat is good, its ridding my body of toxins. No different from when a high fever breaks and u sweat. It means ur body is finally able to heal from ur sickness! So far ive tricked my mind into not freaking out yet :)  im as prepared as I can be. Lots of water, bland foods, just got my b12 shot. I decided against thomas recipe bc of the vitamins and stuff. Sooo much of my heart meds and stuff can be affected by certain things. Id rather be safe than sorry.  I do have ativan as im rx that I have GAD brought on from almost dying from a heart attack at 28. The smallest flutter in my chest or heart Palp abd im ready to dial 911 and cant breathe. Its all anxiety ive learned to differentiate the two in my head, as in what warrants an ambulance and what is panic. And I actually HATE how ativan makes me feel,  that drunk groggy feeling. NOT my cup of tea, so I rarely take them, but I do have them if needed. Anxiety,  rls, no sleep are the wd symptoms that lead me to cave. Thats not an option this time though. Theyre all out of my house. My husband and I are doing this together.  Staying at my momsso she can care for the kids. Im so looking forward to the other side for me and my husband as well!!! Sorry if this is long and drawn out. Trying to pass the time! And ps- the arm infection was VERY scary! My cat scratched me  apparently not long after she used the bathroom.  She has e. Coli and I had a TINY cut where she scratched and bc of my diabetes it spread like wildfire.  When I came out of first surgery I had a whole in my middle/upper arm 9cm across, 6 cm tall 2.5cm deep! I could see my bone and was told losing my arm was quite possible.  But after two more surgeries I seemed to start healing and now though theres still a small hole its gotten so much better! !!

[Karenlovesher4]

She had e coli in her poop I meant which is where its usually found!

[luvdolphins58]

I'm so glad you made it through all that stuff. You are doing great and determine. As a heart patient myself have you cleared this ct wd with your cardiologist?   I'm speaking from experience. I spent 2 different stays in hospital from ct wd. My cardiologist told me i could have died from detox. Way to much stress on heart. I'm not trying to discourage you just want you be safe. Anyway good luck saying prayers for you.

[Karenlovesher4]

Yes I have! Its ct from the 20mg but ive been tapering from 80. Thanks for ur concern!!

[Merri123]

Everything sounds good so far. A positive attitude goes a long way with this. I am happy too that you and your husband are doing this together. That is awesome. And that you have the support from your family too. You have all the makings for success there.

Almost done with day 1!!  Hot baths(if you can) will work wonders for the RLS. If you can have magnesium, Epson salts are great in the bath. Lavender too. I am big into essential oils. Good job so far. Kerp on going!!!