pls advise

[Bonny_T]

Im sorry but why can ppl wright random stuff and get responses to it when i genuinely need advise im switching to subutex from methadone in 3 weeks i think im gunna withdraw from the meths and been offered some tramadol to help but not sure if they will help or put me in to withdrawals if any 1 has experience with these could u pls advise me thank you

[optimus22mac]

The forums are a little slower on the weekends, so be patient....You have a very specific question, and there may not be many people who can answer it or who have had an experience like it.  Also, the "Addiction: Substance Abuse" forum is much busier, and you would be more likely to get an answer if you posted on that forum.  Are you under the care of a doctor? Is the switch from methadone to subutex OR suboxone....(suboxone is the one with naloxone in it with the buprenorphine, and in your other post you mentioned you were taking the one with the blocker in it).  I assume that the tramadol offered to you is not from your doctor, and you should never take any medication not prescribed to you by your doctor...especially when you are taking methadone or suboxone.  You have to be in withdrawals from the medication you are stopping (in your case, methadone) before you start the suboxone...and because methadone has such a long half-life, you will need to wait a certain amount of time after your last dose of methadone, before you can start the suboxone...this is VERY important.  If you take it too soon after you take your old medication, or any narcotic medication, it will give you "precipitated withdrawals" which are worse than any other withdrawals you would have.  I am not an expert, so I suggest that you ask your doctor about it...and you could also search medhelp for info.
So if you were to take any tramadol--whether it was prescribed to you or not, it could make you very sick, and it would take much longer for the suboxone to start working.  
I would think that your doctor would have told you all about this...I think that the best thing you can do, is to make sure you sit down with your doctor prior to switching your medication so that you are completely informed.
I hope this was helpful...if you need more answers, maybe post in the other forum....I'll include a link below:)

      http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Addiction-Substance-Abuse/show/77

[pitbullmom]

tram will def help the w/d but is also addicting  so b careful tram was 1 of my doc drugs of choice  im on sub if u hav any ?s u can pm me make sure u space out the tram and subutex

[weaver71]

To educate yourself, read the suboxone/subutex FAQs at the bottom of this page. Google COWs to get a better understanding of of sub induction. There are special condiderations with methadone. I quit methadone using subutex and it saved my life, but I'm glad I did my research. What is your doctors plan for using subs, or are you doing this on your own? You can pm me as well about subs if you need more info. Pitbullmom, is right, space out the tram and subs, but what makes the discomfort easier, subs will make withdrawal all go away, so there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck.

[dominosarah]

Be very careful with the trams.  They are brutal.

[Fireby29]

Ditto what Sara says.  I have head many absolute horror stories about tramadol/traumadol.  I would recommend staying far away from it.

Bryan

[Bonny_T]

Thanks for ur long reply to my question, yes i am currently under the care of doctor, well in drug treatment and im on 17ml methadone and switching to subutex not suboxone but Ive been told the subutex does also have blocker init hence the reason im switching my medication in the hope it will help me put off scoring but these tramadol were offered to me by a friend to help me with the withdrawals but Ive read a bit up on them and not so sure im not gunna take them between my last dose of meths and my first subutex as i don't want to risk going into worse withdrawls  im just gunna wait and see how i feel when i start the subutex as Ive been told i can only have the basic painkillers and i don't think they will do anything for me a don't know, but can i just ask i know u shouldn't have any opiets in ur system b4 ya take subutex but would the tramadol not help me even if i take them AFTER Ive taken the subutex and what is the difference between opiets and narcotic coz am not sure i thought u just had to be aware of opiets but am reading a bit about narcotic and not sure of the difference  thanks..

[vicki595]

All opiates are narcotic but not all narcotics are opiate. Look up the definition of narcotic by Webster.

Can you just stay away from the Tramadol? It really muddy's  the water. It's just best to go by the the rules and get off the methadone and start the subtext when you are in wd's from the methadone. You'll hurt yourself if you take Tramadol in between those two.

[weaver71]

You won't need the tramadol when you are on subs, and it won't work any way. I agree with Vicki, you don't want to play that game. Narcotics from latin are any pschoactive drug, in America it has evolved to primarily mean opiates. Opiates are plant base drugs like codein, morphine, heroine. Opioids are synthetic opiates, like oxymorphone, methadone, hydrocodone. I went from methadone to subs and am now clean. Just follow the rules and it will be worth it. Good luck.

[optimus22mac]

I'm glad you got back to us! And you have been given some great advice from people who have been on the forum much longer than I have, and who have more or different experience that I have,  I can only tell you what my experience with suboxone is, and I am taking it for both addiction and pain management.  I have very severe chronic pain, and the suboxone actually works very well for pain relief.  I would say that it works about as effectively as my old meds (fentanyl, dilaudid, and a bunch of others before those).  I still have breakthrough pain, which I use motrin 600 for.  I am telling you this because like the others have told you, you won't need the tramadol when you get on the subs.  As long as you have ibuprofren or tylenol, or whatever OTC med that you prefer, you will be fine.  If you start taking tramadol, it sort of defeats the purpose of going on the subutex,  You are going on the subutex to stay away from opiates/narcotics etc.  You will not feel withdrawals once the subutex starts to work, and that is very quickly.  So if you are thinking you would need the tramadol for help with withdrawal symptoms, you will not.  I really think that the tramadol will cause you more trouble than good.  The subutex will take care of the withdrawal symptoms and give you pain relief, and any other pain will be relieved with OTC meds.  And you can make other changes too....you can start taking some of the vitamins or supplements that are included in the Thomas Recipe (link is on this page on the lower right side under "Most viewed health pages"....you will get more energy and feel better overall, and you can start adding more exercise if you can....even a walk each day, and that will help your overall health.  The vitamins and exercise DO help with pain.
    
I am not sure how your doctor plans on starting you on the subutex, but usually you start at a certain amount, and then titrate up if necessary to a dose that is sufficient.  I will tell you that I was in withdrawals from my fentanyl and dilaudid for about 36-48 hours....I hadn't taken any dilaudid for 48 hours, and my fentanyl patch had been off for 3 days.  I was started on the suboxone, and about 15-20 minutes after, I started to feels less withdrawal symptoms.  

If you have more questions, definitely let us know...and also let us know when you start the subutex,,,,and good luck:)

[Bonny_T]

Hey and thanks for all the comments i really do appreciate it but by the responses ive got its looking like the tramadol is a no go i really don't want a buzz i just really want to feel ok with this switch that's all but i don't want to make things worse for my self. I am starting the Subutex on Friday 5th  so therefore i have to take my last dose of methadone on tues 2nd which is only tomorrow :-( as ive got to wait 48hr b4 can start the sub god knows how im gunna feel in these 2 days but yet if i was to have heroin its only 12hrs uve got to wait i know which sounds worse but at the same time i feel 12hrs is much betta than 48hrs i don't want to have time off work also..   can't believe how quick this has come round but i asked for it so gunna have to ride it thru.. The doc is starting me on 4mg sub on Fri then 6mg on sat then 8mg on Sunday then i got to go back docs on Mon morn to let em know how i feel.. I will keep ya's posted thanks Tracy.

[pitbullmom]

u will feel so much better when u switch just a tip it will take a few days on sub to get used to it. u will feel tired and maybe high a lil but only for a few days then u will b clear headed and feeling the way u used to. thats how it went for me anyway good luck keep us posted

[weaver71]

The thing about the 48 hrs is, it will all end in about 30 minutes with the sub. When you are waiting, just remember that. I've had to go days without methadone many times, but knowing that I was going to feel better soon made it much easier. You will be in program of recovery that will change your life forever, as soon as the sub induction starts.

[Bonny_T]

Hey well ive had my last dose of Meths this morn so i hope ill feel not too bad Friday morning when i see the doc i think its wrong that they have to see you withdrawing b4 they will give out the script for subutex i guess they have there reasons tho i will keep you posted on how things go thanks for the update on the subs just praying i will feel ok not long afta i take them coz the doc says i may go into more withdrawals once i take the sub as i may still have methadone in my system so im hoping by Friday it will be out of my system will have to wait and see ill write back soon :-)

[weaver71]

Yes there is a very good reason that you need to be in withdrawal, and you don't want to experience why. The good news is, the sicker you feel before induction, the better they work IMO. I was the most sick I had ever been before I used subs, and it's a good memory to have now. You will be fine. At 17ml of methadone, 48hrs should be long enough. Google COWS and that will explain why you must be in withdrawal and when to induce. I always worry about doctors who give a time frame for subs, that's not how they are taught to administer them. Good luck, everything will be different soon.

[pitbullmom]

did u start ur sub today? how do u feel? if u hav any ?s im here for and weaver knos alot bout sub too.

[Bonny_T]

Hey yea well i started them on Friday felt really **** when i first took them so just had painkillers but still i really didn't feel as bad as i thought i would but also had a cold and chesty cough so that hasn't helped. Im into my 5th day now but still feel aching mainly on my legs and hot n cold and anxious when i wake up and like spiders crawling threw my body is this normal to happen? The nurse has kept me on 8mg and gotta go back on thurs to let her know how i feel Ive been told that 12mg is the normal dose to be on but im not sure? I stayed away from the tramadol but at the same time been very very tempted to take one to seef it would help me a bit but scared id go into withdrawals so didn't bother. Im writing at this hr as i can't chuffin get back to sleep its half 6am :-(  pls reply. Will try sleep again now.

[weaver71]

First off, there is no "normal dose." The sub is accumulating in you system, it takes a little while. You should be feeling pretty good real soon. The lower the dose you can get by with the better. Hope you got some sleep. Just try to relax and not think about how you feel. I know that can be hard, but get distracted. The subs will start to make you feel sober, with energy. Hang in there. Keep us posted.

[Tattersley79]

HI Just to let you know if there is any advice i can give re subutex its try and get off them as quickly as possible. I heard somewhere its best to do a 30 day taper. I started at 24 ml 2 years ago and im still on them now its been good for me as kept me clean as a whistle but making that final leap from sub to norm is hard work I did 2 days from 2ml just now and had to fold last night and have a 2ml so I suppose its a case of how bad you want it. I was informed that subutext was easier to get away from than meth thats why I chose them but now its just getting a long drawn out road. I can tell you that berocca helps and obviously Diazepam but iv never got past the 3 day mark so im just taking it as I can. I wish you the best of luck tho and regarding your quest. I have took tramies with subs before and been okay the max you can have subutex wise is 32ml then taper from there.. the main thing with subs iv noticed that makes them work better is to try and have them last thing at night if possible... Like I said iv been at it now 2 years and will gladly advice you on any dosage and other meds that ya can have with them. I just wish i could make that final leap

[Tattersley79]

Just to let you know and this is quoted on the subutex instruction leaflet in the box For people taking methadone you should reduce dose to at least 30ml methadone and have the last dose at least 24 hours prior to starting subutex im sure could perhaps have some meth inbetween tues and friday like maybe weds night as its a long time to go that

[maria920]

May i ask y u wanted subutex instead of suboxine? Im on suboxone and since it had the blocker i cant use no matter what. With the subutex there is no blocker at all which could get u into some trouble.

[pitbullmom]

hey just wanted to let u kno its probly cuz she was on methadone first due to the long half life they inducted her on subutex without nalaxone cuz she would probly get sick from it they will likley switch her when she stabilizes.

[Tattersley79]

Dont know if they offer Suboxone in the Uk anyway I may be wrong but i was only offered subutex or methadone

[pitbullmom]

hey i hope u feel better soon. i did not feel like that i felt clear headed and excited. i would stay away from the tram if u hav a good sub dr they should drug test u.