Subutex W/D during pregnancy/seroquel

[callingkarma]

Hey all. I've been on Subutex for 3 years - due to a relapse. Worst mistake of my life. I've kicked heroin many times, but can't kick the sub. Not to mention my "conspiracy theory" on Subutex, but I won't give you that talk now - and I've seen many of you think the same. I found out I was pregnant while in my third year of Sub treatment - so it's not like I switched. My main goal for getting off Subutex is selfish - bash me as you like - I want pain relief during and AFTER giving birth. The option I was given was quite scary - an epidural for THREE DAYS!! I'm a wuss when it comes to pain, but I don't want an epidural for 3 days!! After I had my daughter 3 yrs ago I was given percs - 10 days worth - and was fine. An Epidural means I can't move!! The docs also mentioned they "could" give me a complete opiate agonist, in place of the epidural - gee, let's see which one they actually give me. . . Epidural anyone?? I can't imagine they want to give an opiate addict a morphine drip - even after a c-section! No, we've become a secondary human-life w/in hospital settings. The second you mention you take Sub or seem a little too eager to get that vicodin prescription, you're screwed! Nothing but unbearable pain for you, my little addict. . .

Geez - I've gone off on a rant! Sorry. Anyhow - I'm 29/30 weeks pregnant and jumping off tonight - I only take 2mg per day, and at the highest, maybe 4mg. I figure if I jump off now my child has a great chance of surviving outside the womb - you kno, for those that are gonna tell me I'm gonna miscarry - except after 27 weeks it's no longer called a miscarry, but a premature or stillbirth (Yes, I know those are 2 different things). I'm just trying to weed out all the self-taught med students - I know most of us know more than the nurses who assist the doctors - but that's not what I'm here for. . .

What I am here for is to know if someone has gone through a similar experience, what happened, how long were you sick, and how long did it take for you to feel 100%? I'm jumping off at a smaller dose than most do - so how much lower can I go w/o going insane? I don't really want to find out.

I'm also prescribed seroquel 50mg to sleep, but not sure how this will affect my baby - but I am willing to take it when the going gets rough. Has anyone used seroquel during an opiate w/d?

[callingkarma]

Hey all, here's my daily post: I've come down to .125mg (1/2 of a 1/4 pill) - basically nothing. However, I am still having some MINOR discomfort when I wake up after a seroquel nap (about 4 hrs). TV is able to distract me pretty well. I had some company this weekend - unplanned, and felt like I needed to entertain this person due to him having nowhere to go - so this helped a lot! Having someone to talk to and take my mind off w/d was great! I recommend it - even just getting on the Net and chatting to strangers, looking at pages, going to Pogo.com and playing cards, etc. makes the time go by very fast. Also, lamaze-type breathing helps w/ stomach discomfort.

I explained to a friend on here that by the time I get to nothing I am scared into going into harder w/d, but I can't let that stop me - and really 4 days of being on a literal crumb can't be that bad. . . anyone know? I am saving 3 crumbs to use as needed, as they will be the extra pieces after my taper schedule. I feel like I have made it so far - farther than I have EVER been off Sub, and if I quit now I will feel like a failure.

[salsinator]

Hi Karma - way to go, you are doing great.  Stick to your taper program, you are going about it the right way.  Optimally, you want to get down to just one dose of .125 per 24 hours, then drop it down to 48 hours - when you can do this with relative ease, then you should be able to drop off without having too much trouble.  The half life is over 30 hours, which means that it will take over 4 days to get rid of one dose.  Remember that each dose you take has this half life and it builds up, so if you dose twice per day, then the dose is actually building up, not tapering down.    Keep posting Karma, way to go.

[callingkarma]

I am slightly confused about half-lives. To me, it doesn't make sense that .125mg would have the same half life as a 1mg or 8mg dose. Also, I noticed that when I take a 2mg dose, I can pretty much go a whole to half day w/o needing meds when I wake up - when I take the .125 dose I feel as if I need to dose again w/in 8 hours or so. I've looked up much literature on half-lives, but as you say, they all go by the dose - not the amount - this just makes no sense to me. I am a data/figure type person, so this is just a little confusing not being able to find the answer I want.

Yesterday I took .125 at 9:30am - then not another dose till almost 24hrs later (5:30am) - had some major discomfort. Took a seroquel about 10pm, but woke up around 1am feeling like SH** !! Stomach cramps, leg twitches, etc.. . . the muscle tightening is one of the most uncomfortable w/d symptoms for me - it's def different than heroin, as the muscles get tight underneath my skin, but I am not jumpy - it's like I look normal, but dying w/in. So, I knew I wasn't going to go back to sleep and trying to limit seroquel due to the baby - I stayed up and off as long as I could - but at 5:30am needed that dose. That is why I don't understand how all doses can have the same half life - if I had taken a reg 2mg dose, there is no way I would've needed seroquel to sleep and no way I would have only slept 4hrs - and needed more - I would've slept all night, till the next day and would be fine. See what I'm saying?

Today I forced myself to weigh in and take a shower - I've lost about 4lbs. due to not eating and I'm sure my metabolism is in high gear due to all the twitching, not to mention bowel emptying like crazy! I feel tight muscles today, stomach cramps, but I feel heavy like I can't move - this is a new symptom for me.

[Holliee]

Your doing great and I am so very proud of you... I left you a note last night on your home page... I understand what ur saying about half life,, as methadone is the same and I agree with you... Stay strong and good Luck. I will pray for u and babby. Message me when you get chance...

[callingkarma]

Went out to the health food store today and the grocery. I picked up a clay/salt/detox bath - says it helps toxins leave the body. I believe it - and today is the first day I noticed the "detox smell." I think most know what I mean - I know I am clean, I take a shower every other day - I can't stand going w/o - even tho I feel as if I have to force myself, I know it makes me feel better afterwards. Perhaps this salt bath will help me rid the toxins/ buprenorphine faster.

Next, I got some Imodium - never knew loperamide (sp?) was a narcotic. . . especially OTC - however, about 30 mins of taking 2 pills - I feel 60% better - still chilly and edgy, but stomach discomfort has diminished almost totally - and no more diarrhea. I was able to eat. I have also been eating chocolate - don't know why, but it helps. I also took a Tylenol PM - which is the same as Benydryl - the TPM as well as the Imodium and vitamins has really helped make me feel so good that I haven't dosed again since 5:30am this morning - 12 hrs. I am gonna take more seroquel around 9pm - and when I wake up I'm going to only take the TPM and Imodium - I think I'm gonna be completey fine within 72 hrs - I really don't believe I have that much sub in my system - I know I can't. Also, I'm pretty sure my metabolism is waaaay higher than a normal person b/c I'm 8mos pregnant - so the sub just doesn't go to me, it goes to the baby, too. If it didn't, there would be no w/d for the baby. I don't think I'm gonna be sick for longer than a week - and waaay less than 17 days (which I read is the norm). I know what most think, but there is no way the HL of .125mg is 37 hrs - no way.

[salsinator]

Hi Karma,

You are going through the withdrawal process, that's why you have been feeling to crappy.  Let me see if I can make sense of the half life issue for you:  

Suboxone has a half life of 37.5 hours.  This means that it takes a total of 75 hours for one dose of the drug to be completely out of your system.  If you take 2mg, 37.5 hours later, there would still be 1 mg left in your system.  So, if you are taking .125mg in the morning and .125 in the evening, you are taking a total of .25mg for the entire day.  This means that by the time half of the first dose is gone, you will have taken another .125 that next morning and you will have .3125mg still in your system at any one time as long as you continue to dose.  So, your body is dealing with the lower dose as withdrawal and since sub is so strong, 2 mg will hold you over for more than a day before you feel withdrawal.  It would take 75+ hours of not taking anything at all for the drugs to leave your system and the withdrawal would most likely last several days past that.  Your dose is so low though right now that if you were able to just take one dose in a 24 hour period for several days - your body would adjust and then you could start skipping days and eventually drop.  You will do this.  Oh, and I have also heard that imodium will help because of the opiate properties - just be careful with all of the medication that you are taking while pregnant.  You are doing great -keep it up.  S