Tryin to Kick Subutex (Day 4)

[xru11]

I've been on Subutex since October of 2007.   Before then I was addicted to Hydrocodone.  But I decided to to QUIT any any and all prescription meds on or before my 43 birthday. So 4 and 1/2 days ago I went cold turkey after tapering to .5 per day for about a week.  I'm grateful for Subutex since it got me off Hydrocodone  But I gotta say, kicking Subutex might be tougher.  I am on day 4 and the worst of it is over but the general malaise and weariness and aches and pains coupled with the utter lack of energy or motivation to do ANYTHING are driving me crazy!!!!  I must function normally soon.  My family is counting on me and I can't let them down.  No one knows about this.  They think I have had the flu.  I feel much better than I have these last few days,....BUT I could use some kind of support, someone to talk to to... I actually just started to cry typing this... I think its a symptom of withdrawal....anyway is there anyone out there familiar with this process?  Is there anything I can do now to ease the aches, pains, malaise, etc?

[lulu747]

This is a super old thread-you should start a new one of your own.  I don't know anything about subs but there are tons of people on this forum who will beable to answer any questions you might have.  Take care and good luck!

[bettermomma]

If there really is life, after sub use, I'd like to know how long it will take for me to see that life... I've had 1 8mg suboxone in the past two weeks and I've been without anything for 4 days. My family has no idea what's going on and the only friends I have that aren't addicts too, don't live around me, but are only a call away. I am 24 yrs old female with a hubby that works at a good job and two beautiful kids... I wanna be clean by Christmas of 2011 so I may enjoy it. I started sub to get high, I've done other drugs but sub was my favorite. I don't wanna be an addict anymore. I do have a problem and my doctor put me on cymbalta and clonidine ... will this help or does anybody know?

[bmdad]

Welcome to the forum Linux! Your English is just fine. You should really start your own thread as you posted on an older one and they tend to get overlooked. At the top of the page click on "post a question". It will take you to another page. Just type a little info in the subject line, type your questions below that and then click the green post button. Starting your own thread will give you a thread that is dedicated to you and you only. This works out well because it kinda gives you a time line of the progress you're making as you go through this.

Once you start your own thread you will get plenty of support!

Best of luck to you.



Brian

[linux2004]

I'm French so pardon my English which is not my mother language. I'm 42 and am on Subutex since 5 years. My shrink has made a plan for me to stop but that will be a long road. I was at 12 mg and am now for the 28 coming day at 11 mg and the plan is to decrease one mg every month. Has somebody does this plan before on this site and give me a few advice. Thanks so much. Linux2004

[worried878]

exercise really helps..saved me and it sounds like u r enjoying the benefits as well...this is an old post but a good post...posting a new post if u have any questions may be more helpful for u...good lucl

[startlookinup]

We are very close in days, and I feel like we are probably going through some of the same stuff. You are just a day or two a head of me and I am interested in your progress.  I have had my ups and downs, felt like everything was just about to turn around and then back to square one.  I have detoxed twice before in the last 12 years and this is by far the worst thing I have ever experienced!  I agree with everyone else I wish I would have just sucked it up and w/d from the pk's instead of this suboxone.  I understand where your coming from with the mornings, I feel so good some times in the evenings that I think that all this is going to end shortly after I fall asleep and tomorrow will be a perfect day.  I finally went to my DR and got some sleeping medication to help me get through the nights, the mornings have gotten much better since I started sleeping 7-8 hours straight.  Tonight is the first night in 3 nights that I cannot fall asleep, I took my sleep meds over 2 hours ago and still feel wide awake......hense the reason I am up typing at 1:22 am.  I share a lot of common ground with you, I too have young children and have to be there for my family.  I think that's part of the reason that we go through the emotional stuff.  You want soooo badly to be there for your family but you just want to be left alone sometimes.  Today makes a full week for me, I really expected after getting through days 4-5 that I might start feeling quite normal again.  I agree with someone's earlier statement...It's just not right to feel this way for multiple days.  Don't get me wrong, my improvement is leaps and bounds from what it was just a few days ago.  I went from constant pain, cold sweats, stomach cramps, restless legs, etc.... To now I am mostly getting the deep tissue pain, light case of the chills, but mostly just tired and lethargic.  I could deal with the pain if I could just get some energy back and get rid of the chills for once and all.  The problem is that Im not sure completely what to expect, most people that post on here don't really give a day to day diary of what they are feeling.  I think it would be helpful for those of us that our dying to know when we might quite possibly be getting close to say.....dropping the chills.  What typically goes away first?  Chills?  Stomach? Depression?  Lethargy? and on what days can one typically expect to start seeing this change take place???  I mean sometimes during the day I may feel almost completely normal and then boom!...out of nowhere it hits me and I feel like s h i t again.  I think the most miserable part of the whole thing is that you really just don't know what your going to get day to day and after so much time you start thinking is it ever going to get all the way better!!?? The last time I detoxed was probably about 5 years ago from hydros, I did it while I was out of town with my family and parents.  The first 2-3 days were tuff.......had the flu......and after that a good night or two of sleep and I was back to 100%.  By the end of the vacation I was back to normal and ready to get on with my life.  Well...for about 2 weeks and then I remembered again how much I liked taking pk's and well here we go again.. I truly believed that the suboxone was going to be the answer......which I would have never gone into that clinic now!!!  Anyway...since I ***** and moan about people not giving a detailed account here you go:

Day 7 - Woke up after a perfectly masterplanned sleep pattern compliments of my lunesta!! Early...like 6:00am.  Decided to get out of bed and go work out.  Spent maybe 30-45 mins running, lifting, and training on my bags.  Afterwards I jumped my 4ss into the hot tub and relaxed for about 20 mins.  The minute I get out of there I feel like a normal human being for about 2-3 hours.  During that normal time I stoked up to get ready for work get showered and dressed and then head off to work.  Want to point out that I open all the blinds throughout my entire first floor in order to bring vibrant sunshine into the house and I usually will throw something into my CD player in the bedroom and rock out to something while I'm getting ready......preferably happy motivating cd's.....nothing depressing please.  Even though some of the motivational s h i t will still make you cry.....sux being emotional.  Anyway, I think that my little sleep pill is trying to take over...may mean it's nighty night time.  WISH EVERYONE THE BEST OF LUCK.....GET OFF THIS ****!!!!!!!!!

[refusingbondage]

Hi and welcome.  This is an old post.  Not to many people will respond.  Try posting your comment as a 'new post' question on the forum.

Good luck in your suboxone detox.  For me the gooseflesh/hot/cold sweats were the longest lasting physical symptom but got better over time.. after the acute w/drawal the gooseflesh/hot/cold sweats would randomly come and go.  There is a blood pressure medicine called Clonidine which can be prescribed by your doctor that is generally very safe, tried and true, to use which is supposed to help a LOT with this particular symptom.  I didnt use it, but I have heard many good things about it.. Its a BP med so its not addicting, non narcotic obviously.  Anyway, good luck again and stay well.

[Giuseppe74]

I am on day two of my suboxone detox/withdrawals. I stopped after taking .5mg a day for two weeks and then on my last day,  I took .25mg and decided enough is enough. I was on Methadone for 6 years and couldn't stand the side-effects anymore and when I found out about Suboxone, I thought I'd give it a try. Methadone and Suboxone are very similar in many respects. They are also very different. Methadone being a full-agonist and buprenorphine a partial-agonist. They are similar in that they are both long acting medications. I thought the lesser evil would be better, because of all the material I've read on Suboxone has said that it has the same side effects as a full-agonist opiode, but just to a lesser degree. BUT even though it's a partial-agonist, it's something like 40X more powerful in it's agonist-effects. I'll get to my real point. Buprenorphine/Suboxone has been in my system for a little over four years now and I'm just now quiting and so far it's a *****, but nowhere as bad as full-agonist withdrawals. Its like I go through moments where I feel terrible (I especially hate the live wire/high blood pressure goose-flesh symptom) and then I have moments where I have clearer thoughts and realize I feel better, but usually not for long. It's like it's leaching slowly out of my mu-opioid receptors and giving me moments where I can still feel the drug coursing through my body. It's not enough to make me feel good for long, but it's there and I can feel it. I'm just worried. I'm only on day two. Will the next several days be hell? Am I doomed to go through the live-wire feeling for over 5 days or more? How long does that part of the withdrawals typically last?
Any help appreciated. Sorry for sounding so stuffy with all the medical talk. I guess I  know a lot about the medical side, but not the practical side of detox. I've been through it before, but that was over ten years ago and that was from heroin... which the withdrawals from that get better after about the fourth or fifth day. Help anyone? Any guidance on when the goose-flesh live-wire feeling will TYPICALLY go away? I'm desperate and it's only day two. -Giuseppe

[SAPPINGTON]

i AM ON SUBOXONE AND AM DOWN TO 1/4 OF A 8 MG TABLET.  I HAVE NOT BEEN FEELING WELL AND I AM TERRIFIED.  I HAVE FLU LIKE FEELINGS AND RESTLESS LEGS.  I ONLY HAVE ABOUT EIGHT OF THESE 1/4 PILLS.  HOW LONG WILL THIS TAKE??  i WAS ON A FENTENAL PATCH AND VICODIN 20 PER DAY SO I FELT SUB. WAS A MUST.  HELP!

[worried878]

have wondered this very same thing...but i think many just know any better and some actually are great at it...finding one is the problem...quick money is definitely the stimulus for some of these sub doctors..some r just plain misinformed...most have no experience with actual addiction themselves///researching on ur own is important as we all should understand what we put in our bodies

[kathy226]

Does anyone think that suboxone is just a legal way for a bunch of doctors to make money off addicts? I havn't seen a doctor yet who I thought really got it.

[worried878]

mornings were worst for me as well...once i got up and got going tho..things got better...u have the idea///that bike ride u took did u more good than anything on this earth could do endorphin wise....get em pumping again...aminos help to but not near as fast...magnesium and calcium also helps with sleep taken before bed.....5htp helps me relax as well at night

People who are active anc exercise are less likely to get RLS which is another positve thing about exercise...push fluids as dehydration even minimal can drag u down

keep moving forward

[refusingbondage]

YA - So happy to hear you made it to another day!  I definitely know the weirdness in the legs and talked a lot about walking on legs that did not feel like they were mine.  Such a strange strange feeling that is difficult to put into words.  I am Happy to report that too goes away!  You seem to be doing everything right - the vitamins, exercise, hot hot baths, posting, taking comfort in the little things - a bright sun, etc.  These are all things to help ease what you are going through.  I guess having things you HAVE to do, like getting your little one off to school each day helps in that your unable to sit around and pity yourself (did plenty of that my first week or two).  You sound so much more positive, even one day later and that is awesome.  The only thing that I could do to get through the mornings or any other particularily bad moment (aside from advil) was try to take my mind off of it - hard to do.  Maybe read a book, watch a movie, if your up to it again- take a long walk.. anything to get through the day-listening to my favorite music helped me a lot to take my mind away from the panic and sadness.  Congrats on day 5 - I know you will make it past all this and you will be so happy when you start to feel like yourself again!  

[xru11]

First, thank you all for reaching out.  I really think just having others around who really understand what this feels like and have had a first-hand experience with similar trials and tribulations, I think that helps. For those of you that have gone much further my 4 days and are still strong, you guys are my heroes!  For those of you reaching out to help others with this problem, the moms I read about helping their kids thru this thing, thanks for reaching out to me too.

Let me report, that I got through Day 4 pretty well.  After receiving a few posts a reading them, I got this sudden burst of drive and will power and dare I say it??? Energy!!!  I jumped on my bike and rode at a decent clip for 30 minutes.  They crisp breeze against my body felt good.  The pain in my legs from actual exercise made me forget the dead leg feeling I have had for the past 3-4 days.  The sun brightened my spirits.  I returned home and set up a hot and I mean HOT!! bath with eucalyptis oil,...and as I submerged my body in the water, a fleeting moment of nirvana.... I soaked for as long as I could, dressed and set about cleaning my house, doing laundry, etc...  I cant say it was easy but I muscled thru it.  Much of the stomache side pain you know in the kidney area, has subsided.  The acute aches and pains have also subsided.  I still have that wierdness in the legs  but I must say I do feel better.  
For lunch I went to starbucks for a banana-mango vivanno with protein, At night I stocked up on amino acids and bananas and celery and beats and carrots.

I found that a combination of evening l-carnitine, l-arginine, and bananas helped me sleep more thru the night, I still woke up three times but was able to fall back asleep with little fuss.

Its now my day 5 and I am here because in part each of you cared enough to post something.  I just wanted to thank you all.  

I really hate mornings,... they seem so painful and miserable,...  but I have to be up prepping my daughter for kindergarten and driving her to school.  It can be torture but I put on a good show hiding it.  This morning is no different.  I am back home now trying to expedite the transition from miserable morning malaise (MMM) to manageable mid-day quasi-functionality.  I thought some of you might have some ideas on how to deal with mornings?

[mr.lucky66]

If you want it bad enough you can do it. You don't have to take sub or methadone if you have failed before.  Try to find a non drug solution to your drug addiction.

[worried878]

sub has helped many and will help many more...i have seen it help people...people just need to know what they r getting in to ..know their goals and educate themselves as u can not guarnatee ur doctor will fully understand this drug  ...for a 60-100 mg a day hydro user..i just can not see the point...,.with higher doses for long term users...i can see how it may be the only way they can make it thru....everyone is different..some work..some do not...some can wd CT off of 300 mg of oxy a day...not sure i could do that but dont know cos i have never been there...so who am i to say...i do know being 80-100 mg hydro user for 4 years that wds just are not that terrible and a few days off work if u have a hectic job like i do is warranted in most cases..i would ask myself

1.  Have I relapsed over and over and sub is my only anwser?
2.  Have I really tried to quit my DOC by myself...every avenue available, including asking the doctor for help, a friend to hold pills, flusing all leftovers and going to meetings?
3. Am i so afraid of wds or have a work issue where sub may help me not miss work?  remembering that a low hydro user would need a low dose for only a week or so and a high user like oxy may need 21 days for short term use
4.  If i can not stay clean and I have tried over and over and end right back in the same hole over and over again, then long term sub may be a consideration, knowing that you will most likely become addicted to it...and including meetings and support along with the sub
5.  And also remembering sub will not stop PAWS nor cravings after u quit if used short term.  You have to WANT to be clean and even those on sub long term can use if they want to bad enuf.  it is not fool proof..u gotta want it

[lovepat906]

The feedback on sub is not all dire. I have posted many times my son's success story. He ditched a 2 year addiction to methadone , after a long go with PKs, using a three month low and slow sub taper. His WDs were mild- he never missed work. I am not sure why folks who do the 20 day taper have probs- but maybe it is not long enough to clear and heal receptors in the brain. My boy went down to .25 and after at least 5 days at that level, he started an everyother day skip, and then every two days skip, and then 4skips, between. When he got to a five day skip he jumped. He has been done withit since July 29th and has been doing very well to date. He did start taking an antidepressant 3 weeks before he jumped. He didn't have the fatigue and depression that is reported here. He also drank a ton of water and exercised heavily to help him flush out his system. So. It can be done. I suggest you go to NAABT.org for whole threads of success stories.

[botchedup]

by the way,,it's good to cry...did you know that sad tears and pain tears and happy tears all have different ph levels??? If you feel compelled to cry...let it go...help it out.  Tears, sweat, blood, bile, can anyone say MUCUS???  lol:)  don't forget the runs....Listen doll, dry it out, sweat it out, throw it out, get the **** out!!!  Don't ever forget in your darkestand most painful moments, you ARE doing the hard work it takes for  healing.  I don't often thump my Bible onthe internet but think how bad Jesus was hurting, thank him, and he WILL give you the strength.  I don't think our Father in Heaven ever meant for his creation to be copied and used or viewed as harmful.  (here i go with the "hippy hogwash":) God gives you authority over all earthly things...take it and use it wisely.  And do your homework fellow thumpers...do you know all 7 sabbaths....Lev,23...what a blessed time when it's HIS appointed times...Especially right now I believe he's "inclined thine ear to us".  Funny it took 40 yrs of "church" before I really got it.  XRU__stay hydrated, take tylenol pm the new stuff, eat bananas at nite they help w/ BOTH restless legs and they turn on "sleepy hormones" like turkey din din.  no caffeine rather than am cup, simple hatha yoga (I'm talking very simple) if you can't bear to actually walk or exercise,,definitely do gentle stretching,,,circle your joints while lounging, rub your own feet(pressurepoints)deep breating really does help even tho we never bother to do it, ummmthere's more but pm me cuz I'm the worst at going on and on.......I bet the po-po wishes I would quit:)hahaha   just joking......it's late, I'm punchy.  I just want you to feel better, smile, be strong.  

[botchedup]

ok I think we are deceived only when we allow ourselves to be.  The reason dr/s are willing to take an oxy/hydro user and put them on Subs is usually because yes, the w/d are pretty bad, and, short acting opioids put you into a constant state of chasing away the w/d's every 4-6 hrs.  I have found that medical professionals (when being totally honest and not stigmatized) know for sure that being in a constant state of w/d's and chasing is NOT healthy....Therefore, they either put you on contin, methadone, or subs.  I don't know that the mg. conversions are even available...it's the 36-72 hour half life of sub that allows addicts to ease w/d from the short acting full agonist, stabilize and regulate, and then either maintain or taper & w/d.  Any and all of it is work.  The drugs aren't evil.. (maybe the dudes in labcoats formulating synthetics are but,,,) .Our weaknesses are what make us human.  Our ignorance is fully trusting in doctors and medications, or just lovin' a buzz and seemingly free energy.  I don't think anything is worse or better,,,just people's ideas and how they use the tools they have.  It's the 1/2 life that makes it seem harder.  Sub w/d is a good two wks, maybe a month, lots of sweating, and like eagle...dr's do sometimes at the end give you hydros or percs-----because of the subs 1/2 life.  Mind you those will be THE LAST hydros or percs they ever give you unless you get hurt or need surgery.  That is what responsible Sub docs do.  The goal is not always to just be clean no matter what....it's you, happy, healthy, being gentle and caring for your body after you've abused it for too long.  None of us got here in a month....we can wish and hope, but I still say, for every year you used, there's 6 months healing.  Subs not the miracle...our bodies are.

[mr.lucky66]

I hate to see people who are addicted to hrdro end up on sub. This is not the first time I've heard of someone going back to hydro to get off of sub. A few months ago many people on this site thought it was a miracle drug now we all know it isn't. There are no free rides off of narcotics, just somethings to help a little and hard work. all the best

[worried878]

the thomas reipe is great for the depression and fatigue that comes with all of this..at the recommended doses..which is alot..and combined with physical activity daily or more..as much as u can to crank up endorphins...this whole process is so mental and if wds are what is scaring u into using sub...be safe...it u continuously relapse and can not stay clean and do not have the desire to stay narcotic free...then methadone or sub serve the same purpose...suboxone is glorified but when push comes to shove...it is a powerful narcotic that people can legally use to stay away from their DOC...just like methadone...they both occupy receptor sites,,,they both are habit forming altho it is coming to light that it takes less time to get addicted to methadone than sub for many people..sub is stronger than methadone...and whatever anyone says...both can get u high if u abuse it....a sub high is preferred by many over a methadone high..if a methadone high was fantastic there would be lines in front of the clinics..it makes them feel "normal" just like sub does for sub users....know ur stakes and ur meds...a counseler here said sub is just "glorified methadone"  in a lecture i heard at a pain mgt seminar..10 years from now we will have clinics doling out sub to "subbers" for long term use..they are already opening up sub clinics and sub is way more expensive than methadone

Not condoning mehtadone here unless used as intended not sub unless used as intended...just do not kid urself about what u r doing..u r a using a narcotic/more powerful than the one u quit..to get clean..many can do this and make it..many can not...i just spoke with a friend and she is dying to get off sub and is going to use hydros to get off.....did i agree?  NO  Is she stuck?  YES  but i DO believe she is better off than she was before the sub due to a very large habit...it is just now time to deal with the sub and it is one more hurdle to jump over....drag urself over..when an addict is slap worn out..this crud can beat u down...wding over and over can sometimes not be good for people and they cant take the pain...and it takes strength of character and strong discipline to taper off of sub..that is why so many get STUCK on it..she will make it but i can feel her pain

[broknbck]

so for the symptoms you could try the l-glutamine. it is an amino acid in tablet form. it is one that i feel instant effects from. like i can tell the difference if i take it one day or not. it makes my thinking clearer and seems to give me more energy to do things.

the aches and pains may well be withdrawl induced. that your brain is telling you that you are in pain to take more of the drug. sounds crazy, but it is true. your brain is needing some real healing now and the amino acids are the best way that i know of.

i am always fighting anemia which makes you so, so tired. juicing raw vegtables will give you instant energy. but you have to have a juicer to do it. this is the juice i make when i am like that.

2 carrots
2 celery stalks
about 1/4 of a beet-like 1/3 cup with the greens (it is pretty strong when eaten raw and more can give you a headache. this is where the energy boost comes from)
1 apple to make it taste somewhat decent

if you cannot do the juice, than try to just eat some raw vegs and lots of protein helps too. although you want to keep the fat intake down as it will make you feel sluggish too.

hopefully you are able to eat. that is where we get our energy and we have to put good stuff in to run well.

i am sorry if these things sound really lame, but this is what helped me and still does.

[KathyStid]

I'm trying to get off Tramadol, and what I am finding out is that you have to own the problem.  I have been hiding my addicition, but I finally had to confess to my best friend.  The tears finally came out and I became accountable.  I am going to the detox clinic tomorrow, and I would appreciate everyone's kind thoughts and prayers.  I have never been lower, but at the same time happy that I have been able to at least own the problem and take the first step.  And it is ok to cry xru11, even if it is when you are typing.

[avisg]

It will get better we have had some people that have gone off long term use that they have returned back to normal but it is going to take time .You have been on sub about a year it wont undo its self in a few days .I am sure there is a light at the end of the tunnel. how much hydro were you taking before you went on the sub.